Urban Land Institute coming to Tampa

[I-275westcoastfl]

Tampa is a mediocre city and people with money see that and choose not to invest in many things here. Miami at least is an international city and will always be #1 because of it, Orlando has tourism industry covered, and the rest of the state is a wasteland. Sure Pinellas has nice beaches which draw people to Tampa but what else do we have really? Ybor is Tampa's only gem and they have done very poorly with it despite the improvements over the years. Otherwise what does Tampa have? It does have some industries and whatnot but what makes it better than any other city its size? Nothing to be honest. St. Pete at least has managed to make its downtown into a cool little place to be, it will never be a major hotspot but it will always be a nice place to go. Tampa well.. Just an average nobody city. Might offend a few of you but that is the truth.

[TampaMike]

And it will not change until we have representatives and united city governments to voice their displeasure of the lack of investment the region sees from the state. The lack of transportation funding, the lack of educational funding, and the lack of jobs that the state lures through incentives and tax breaks.

[DShenise]

I said it a couple years ago, Tampa is like Lyon France. A nice place to visit if you have the time, have to go for work, or want a side trip from your main destination. But generally not in anyone's top 25 must visit destinations. That said, how do you build on what is existing?

[TampaMike]

It's not just about working with the stuff we have now, we need to bring in other fields of jobs in this region. If the slash and defense spending goes through, there is likely hundreds of more jobs being eliminated in the Tampa Bay area because we have many companies that rely on military contracts to build vehicles and weapons here for the military. We need to adapt to what's hot and right now, housing construction and military manufacturing isn't going to be that. When cars became the hot thing, why would anyone continue to build wagons and carriages for transportation?

[I-275westcoastfl]

Unfortunately that is the downfall of the entire state, when it comes to jobs and creating new fields we lag behind and the pay scales do the same.

[DShenise]

Tampa has more than housing and inflow jobs though. It is possible to build organically with lots of small things local people use everyday. Things like dining, and other low hanging fruit are a place to start. The problem will always be there are too many who think Tampa is the bee's knees, center of the universe and expect to be king capitalist out of the gates. Hell I've been in small towns in Pennsylvania with better downtowns than Tampa's because they focused on things that impact the people who live there. Trying to be the "next greatest city", only pulls attention away from the local and puts all the power in out of towners. Who cares what people from out of town think, you have to be the best you can be for yourself. Kind of the Gordon Ramsey approach to cooking, don't over do it.

You just need the locals to get off their asses and not settle for chain after chain (dining, shopping or otherwise). You need more local entrepreneurship in the non-exciting fields. That's how you develop authenticity. Its probably one of the main reasons I left, lack of local pride in local culture.

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by DShenise

Tampa has more than housing and inflow jobs though. It is possible to build organically with lots of small things local people use everyday. Things like dining, and other low hanging fruit are a place to start. The problem will always be there are too many who think Tampa is the bee's knees, center of the universe and expect to be king capitalist out of the gates. Hell I've been in small towns in Pennsylvania with better downtowns than Tampa's because they focused on things that impact the people who live there. Trying to be the "next greatest city", only pulls attention away from the local and puts all the power in out of towners. Who cares what people from out of town think, you have to be the best you can be for yourself. Kind of the Gordon Ramsey approach to cooking, don't over do it.

You just need the locals to get off their asses and not settle for chain after chain (dining, shopping or otherwise). You need more local entrepreneurship in the non-exciting fields. That's how you develop authenticity. Its probably one of the main reasons I left, lack of local pride in local culture.

I agree, but we're also going to need some big names to get anywhere. And when it comes to talking about entrepreneurs, we're losing them because they are moving to cities within states that actually give a damn about things like education and transportation. They see a long-term future in those cities and not in Tampa, Florida. And you can blame a governor that is so delusional in everything for not turning the failures that have left us here with past governors (namely Jeb and Charlie) in education and infrastructure.

[koopalicious]

Originally Posted by DShenise

I said it a couple years ago, Tampa is like Lyon France. A nice place to visit if you have the time, have to go for work, or want a side trip from your main destination. But generally not in anyone's top 25 must visit destinations. That said, how do you build on what is existing?

Lyon?!? If Tampa even reached half of the level of Lyon, it would be in great shape!

That said, I agree with your last post. Bringing in a lot of major companies and high-paying jobs is not going to happen overnight... if ever. But there are a lot of things that can be done on the local level right now, and at relatively low cost.

To do that, however, it seems more and more likely that we need a crop duster to sweep the area with some sort of enchanted "de-apathizing" potion.

[Jahi98]

The area will need to grow internally - work on growing existing businesses and building on assets it already has. Business leaders need to work more closely with educational institutions to build the pipeline of workers needed.

From a planning standpoint, the region needs to establish what kinds of businesses it wants in certain areas that builds on what already exists, like DT St. Pete can focus on education, arts, medical and marine research; Gateway and central Pinellas can focus more on manufacturing (medical and otherwise); Carillon and Westshore can focus on finance and insurance; I-75 corridor can become the back-office/call center capital; I-4 corridor can build on green technology, etc. Once those things are established, each area will have its own identity, there will be no need for communities to compete with each other for the same types of jobs, and we can build a nice, balanced local economy. Then the challenge will become building a transit system to get people to those jobs.

We could always use a big project, similar to Creative Village and Medical City in Orlando to generate some excitement. However, I'm cool with piecemeal growth, as long as it has a focus.

[DShenise]

I was in Roma, Napoli and Sorrento this past summer. Now Napoli is a complete toilet. Its just terrifying. But Sorrento and Roma both do something very well that the whole of the Tampa Bay area could do better. That's getting tons of little small shops and eateries (from small food stalls, to big restaurants) up and running in not only obvious locations, but odd ones as well. You need a higher level of entrepreneurship in the town. You need weird little shops, very specific restaurants, and anything that isn't a chain. Sure most of these places will be a little more expensive than a typical chain, but they are different. So the next time someone you know says they are thinking of opening up their own shop, encourage them to do so. Its worth it, going out on my own was the best thing I ever did.

[Del Mayberry]

we've got too many suburbanites around here that think they are Bourgeoisie because they eat at the Olive Garden.

[I-275westcoastfl]

Originally Posted by Del Mayberry

we've got too many suburbanites around here that think they are Bourgeoisie because they eat at the Olive Garden.

That is the classiness of people in Tampa Bay, in other words not very high class. Tampa is filled with retirees who don't usually go out of their way to go somewhere interesting but instead to find somewhere to just leave the house like Olive Garden. Some of them truly have little money, others are tight-wads who want to spend as little as possible.

Then you have the mid-westerners who mostly came from small dumpy towns or rust-belt cities which are dying which never had anything or lost everything and suddenly you are in a city which seems huge to you because your town had more cows than people and there is actually an Olive Garden. There also isn't snow on the ground for half the year.

Then you have the people who couldn't cut it in New York or some other large northern city who got tired of the traffic, noise, people, cold weather, and expenses. They instead move to a city with traffic, rude people, and warm weather but its cheap so they stay here and about half want to return but can't afford to because they end up working for a low wage here that makes it hard to move back. Then they complain how expensive things like food are here and how up north was so much better.

Then you have the "locals" or people who have lived here very long or were born here. The older ones complain how everything used to be a small town and how its changed and we have grown into a "big city". The thing is they don't like it and they want to keep it like a small town. Most locals are working class since nearly all of the wealth in Tampa Bay comes from somewhere else because its very difficult to become successful here. So you tend to get less educated and sometimes trashy people. Then you have those that only care about the beach because they spend most of their time there, after all that is all Tampa Bay has going for it.

I'm not saying this is everybody but I'm pretty sure you could agree that those are pretty accurate generalizations of some of the average groups of people in Tampa Bay. The thing is most of us on the forums here we think differently than the average person in Tampa Bay, so we might have good ideas on how to improve things or think we should do this or that. But in the end the majority rules and this shows in this metro. Many people think Tampa Bay is fine and they really don't care for an active urban core with culture because they can just drive to some chain restaurant or store and be happy with it. The only real solution is if you want a life with more character, more success, more fun, etc etc you really have to go somewhere else. You can have some fancy urban "experts" tell the city what they should do but in the end it doesn't really matter unless people want it and are willing to invest in such things.

I know I sound like a negative asshole but I dunno for me it seems like reality. The more I have traveled to other US cities the more I have opened my eyes to how things are in other places and how you have to be a certain type of person to like Tampa Bay.

[Del Mayberry]

another thing that's a joke around here is Cadillacs & double-wides. Typically those 55+ places. They get into their caddy & drive to the "all-you-can-eat buffet" & then drive back to their aluminum paradise.

[smiley]

Originally Posted by Del Mayberry

we've got too many suburbanites around here that think they are Bourgeoisie because they eat at the Olive Garden.

From all the comments, I think I know what you are trying to say, but, to be honest, you messed it up. Next time you want to trash someone, you need to be sure the sentence trashing them uses all its words properly. Usually, you do not say people aspire to be bourgeoisie (bourgeois) - which is middle class - so, trying to trash such people by saying they go to Olive Garden would seem to not make sense.

And, frankly, urban hipsters/yuppies are just as bourgeois as anyone else. Class bs is really not the point. It is what kind of city do you have and can everyone take part in its vital life.

[smiley]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

Most locals are working class since nearly all of the wealth in Tampa Bay comes from somewhere else because its very difficult to become successful here.

Most locals pretty much everywhere are working class. . . and just so you know, that is not the meaning of "bourgeois." The problem is not the working class so much as the people with money - most of whom got it here, actually, through development in the suburbs, like the City of Tampa's attorney - whose dad was a big suburban developer.

[FlaNatv]

I agree with most of the generalizations about most people here. I wonder though about places like Winter Park, FL and Orlando. That area is full of chains, strip malls, and suburbs, yet when you go to WP's Park Ave(please note: not in tourist district) and wander around that area you get a sense that this place is special and unique. You feel more like you're in Europe(especially around Rollins College) than Florida. The place is beautiful and full of hype and trendy little shops and restaurants. Some are chains and some are independents. Whenever I am over there, I always think "why can't Tampa be more like this". I don't expect surbia like New Tampa to be cozy, but South Tampa has a great shot at putting on a Winter Park-ish ambiance. It just needs to come together better. Certain corridors, if given special attention to detail could be destinations, not just for locals but a wider audience. Specifically, I am thinking of SoHo(right now it's too much of a patchwork), MacDill & B2B(needs better sidewalks and street-trees), Downtown Davis Islands(could be better) and Grand Central (like Park Ave, it's near an historic Univ/Coll). None of these streetscape projects will likely bring in better jobs immediately but it is little things like this that build character, uniqueness, and distinction to a location and may catch the attention of Young Educated/Creative Urbanites. There are other areas in Tampa that could be focal points but these in South Tampa are obvious to me plus connecting these sites(obviously not D.I.) by LR would really be something.

[TampaMike]

Because no one gives a damn or they find simple things like developing something like Winter Park's Park Ave. as a liberal thing. Just bringing up making more communities and cities denser is looked as a liberal thing. Seriously, making a more pedestrian-friendly community with shops within the community is labeled as a liberal thing in this area. It's ridiculous how much this area goes on believing that the best thing for the region is placing Wal-Marts and 1,000+ communities all over the place.

And when it comes to not caring, take the commission up here in Pasco County as your finest example. They just recently completed an urban development map for the county and now they want to go back and redesign the map too add more areas to the map. It hasn't even seen the day of light and the commission is thinking of redesigning the borders of it. Hmm..... changing development maps, sound familiar at all?

[burnside]

Mike, what you've described is approximately the national context. A large cohort is recently retired or will retire shortly. With the recession - and the unnamed, but continuing recession for the lower three quintiles - residential and commercial construction are not recovering, nor will they any time soon. Because our economy has been reliant primarily on consumption for several decades - nearly 70% of GDP is consumption, a gross imbalance - because the growth sectors over that same period have been in finance, insurance, real estate; especially because productivity and automation are reducing the numbers of workers and lowering skills requirements . . . because of these and more, I think anticipating much more than a very slow rate of growth is seriously misguided. There's little or no prospect of a rebound, though we'll likely continue to grow.

If the city were to plan for its near- or mid-term future, it might be better served to examine consolidating and rationalizing the community. Because the fifty-year history has been to get ready for the next boom, however, and since such an assessment sounds far too negative for public consumption, I anticipate Tampa will take on additional debt for a 'bright' future. That's the nature of the beast.

[DShenise]

Fundamentally the entire nation has spent the past sixty years benefitting from the fact that the rest of the world was basically destroyed by WWII. It was a tremendous head start. The WWII generation did great things in the fifties and sixties. Europe and Japan caught up in the seventies, China caught up in the 90s and South America is basically catching up now. What have we done, we've created a national economic model based on having tremendous advantages that no longer exist.

So yes, learning to be thriftier and more compact will be a good thing in the long run. However, Americans have never had to do this, ever. Prior to WWI we were pretty isolationist and the global economy didn't matter. Than the Depression and WWII came, both of which are outliers. Post WWII, we had the edge again. I honestly think there will be greater stratification of incomes and lifestyles. Some people who are more critical, will look around and make changes to better their lifestyle (myself). Others won't (my mother and sister). I loved living in Hyde Park when we did. Basically we walked everywhere and rarely drove. The same is true now that we live in Santa Monica. Some people just don't appreciate how living in a urban setting can be much better than living in the burbs. We have one car (that saves $650 a month - payment-insurance-gas) and drive that car like three times a week (saves ~$80 a month). With these savings I can travel three times a year to see and do actual things, not just see others do it on TV.

It takes slapping people in the face with lifestyle choices to make a difference. You have to brag about your short commutes, or how you use your bike. You have to brag about saving enough to travel. You have to brag about being a bit of a minimalist so that you can fund your retirement program. Eventually a few lightbulbs light.

[FlaNatv]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

...they find simple things like developing something like Winter Park's Park Ave. as a liberal thing. Just bringing up making more communities and cities denser is looked as a liberal thing. Seriously, making a more pedestrian-friendly community with shops within the community is labeled as a liberal thing in this area. It's ridiculous how much this area goes on believing that the best thing for the region is placing Wal-Marts and 1,000+ communities all over the place.

About the Orlando area, the general population has been about the same as Tampa. I don't think they are any more "liberal" (I'm not a liberal and I see value in this). I don't think that's it. It's lack of vision by the leadership going back 20-30 years. I suppose, Tampa just hasn't had leaders and community activist that know how to capitalize on the assets of this area. Under the "coolness, progressiveness" of Orlando is cow pastures and numerous lakes. Tampa has a lot more natural assets...??? Buckhorn seems to be stepoping in the right direction