Urban Land Institute coming to Tampa

[smiley]

It has nothing to do with being liberal. Tampa has been run by democrats for decades. (though the county hasn't) and yet Tampa hasn't done the proper work. The reasons are the people making decisions and what their interests are.

That being said, there are people who think that anything like rail is questionably liberal - but a bigger problem is that the plans are always transparently self-serving rather than community oriented and that is a problem of leadership not political leaning.

[DShenise]

There is a distinct suburb versus urban meme pushed by almost all conservative political commentators. From Limbaugh and Hannity pushing SUV's regardless of gas prices to Neil Boortz constantly harping about the dangers of the city (meaning scary black folk). Its the old pro-America, wide open spaces, make your own way in the world "philosophy". It directly contrasts with public transit (having to accept the schedule of someone/something else), housing density (lord of your own manner) and "achievement" (having lots of things including space).

Now I will grant you, I'm a snarky liberal urbanist who loves poking fun at 18' long mega SUV's, commutes over three miles, Olive Garden/Outback/Carraba's, hausfraus in capri pants, and chubby grille happy dads in pleated khakis. But one lifestyle is significantly less impactful to the environment than the other. One lifestyle is much better if you want to see lots of your family versus spending hours traveling. One lifestyle is significantly better for society as a whole, versus just your individual family.

This isn't to say all conservatives want to live in the burbs and accept the lifestyle of the burbs. But its a general "way of doing things" that is pushed on talk radio, on conservative websites and Fox News. Its pushed as what is "main-stream" and the real America. Just as snarky liberals tend to create shows like Subugatory.

[TampaMike]

I just can't tell you how much I hate being a suburbanite at the moment. lol And a bus stop does exist down the street from me, but it doesn't meet my expectations so why use it?

Anyways, to the topic of the thread...

ULI findings encourage changes in downtown Tampa
Tampa Bay Business Journal by Mark Holan, Staff Writer
Date: Friday, October 14, 2011, 11:05am EDT

Members of an Urban Land Institute panel asked real estate and economic development professionals Friday to imagine a Tampa urban core that surrounds the Hillsborough River. Such a change would extend the urban core as far has Howard and Armenia avenues.

Other members of the general public made up an audience of about a couple of hundred people attending the presentation the capped the ULI’s week-long advisory services panel process.

The TECO Line Streetcar System should provide more service, not less, the panel said, recommending that planners consider extending it to Tampa Heights and then create a loop to Ybor City.

Planners also need to look at “calming” traffic on Ashley Street and at other downtown points so more attention can be paid to Riverwalk, the ULI panel said. It also encouraged the Riverwalk extension across the Hillsborough.

The recommendations come after two days of presentations by city staff and interviews with more than 60 community and business leaders, a written statement from the city said.

The ULI is a nonprofit education and research organization that provides leadership in best practices and creative solutions for responsible and sustainable land use. The ULI Advisory Services Panel is composed of economic development, land use, development and government experts from around the country who volunteer their time to help communities solve difficult development or public policy problems.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/...u&ana=e_du_pub

Agree and have mentioned both of the bold items numerously on here. Maybe they will listen this time.

[TampaMike]

Another article on the ULI recommendations for Tampa. Won't include the whole article because it mentions pretty much the same as the other, but I wanted to quote this.

Asked about the best spot for a new downtown stadium, panelists said that's something the community should decide.

Haha I knew it would be brought up!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgo...om-the/1196856

[DShenise]

I can imagine the traffic calming going over like a turd on a wedding cake. Though it does work, and will make DT much better for those who live there and work there. Four traffic lanes (2 in either direction) is about max for a decent street life that isn't car centric.

FYI, they are doing traffic calming all over the LA area. Lots of streets are losing car lanes for dedicated bike lanes, bus lanes and parking/shoals. Its the trend as things get built out and people seem to be living closer to where they work.

[smiley]

Awesome - formulaic solutions. Sure, 4 lanes is great - but having something on the road for people to do is better. And Ashley is very easy to cross - esp if they gave you about 5 more seconds on the cross walk. And the median is nice too. That is about issue 326 downtown.

[FlaNatv]

Why doesn't Tampa have an arcade(not a video arcade, although not a bad idea, lol) like many downtowns. You walk inside off the street go to a coffee shop then buy a magazine at a newstand sit down at a table and relax inside in the AC. Sorta like a mini mall. Even Lakeland has an arcade. This would be a nice option to have.

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by FlaNatv

Why doesn't Tampa have an arcade(not a video arcade, although not a bad idea, lol) like many downtowns. You walk inside off the street go to a coffee shop then buy a magazine at a newstand sit down at a table and relax inside in the AC. Sorta like a mini mall. Even Lakeland has an arcade. This would be a nice option to have.

I kind of envisioned something like a modern arcade in the middle of Downtown a while back, actually where the Trammell Crow proposal is. Two floors, shops and restaurants, hotel with lobby entrances both inside and outside the arcade. Still could happen with what we've seen of the sit plan of the proposal, but likely won't. And there is still plenty of land around there to do something like this in the future, but it's up to developers if they want to include such an idea.

[Del Mayberry]

Originally Posted by smiley

From all the comments, I think I know what you are trying to say, but, to be honest, you messed it up. Next time you want to trash someone, you need to be sure the sentence trashing them uses all its words properly. Usually, you do not say people aspire to be bourgeoisie (bourgeois) - which is middle class - so, trying to trash such people by saying they go to Olive Garden would seem to not make sense.

And, frankly, urban hipsters/yuppies are just as bourgeois as anyone else. Class bs is really not the point. It is what kind of city do you have and can everyone take part in its vital life.

My interpretation of bourgeois is the upper class or the upper middle class NOT the middle class. Maybe if I said the suburbanites think they are elite, you would have got my point. Here's a better example: A bourgeois person will dine at Bern's because the Olive Garden isn't good enough.

[Jasonhouse]

So basically everything they've suggested is something we've already been talking about here for years. We already knew for free what the city just paid 6 figures to hear from "experts". Worst of all, a lot of it is stuff I personally know for a fact that they've already been told about in emails sent by people from here and elsewhere around the area... My guess is the advice of these experts gets the same level of attention emails from interested citizens get.

[smiley]

the definition of bourgeois: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bourgeois

Jssonhouse, a friend sent me a link to this blog which pretty much says what you just said: http://tampasphere.wordpress.com/201...-movie-before/

[Jasonhouse]

Nice find... I didn't write that, but I would love to know who did. Sounds like my kind of skeptic.

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

So basically everything they've suggested is something we've already been talking about here for years. We already knew for free what the city just paid 6 figures to hear from "experts". Worst of all, a lot of it is stuff I personally know for a fact that they've already been told about in emails sent by people from here and elsewhere around the area... My guess is the advice of these experts gets the same level of attention emails from interested citizens get.

Next time they want to get "professional service" to tell them how to design Tampa, say 10 years from now, we should contact them and say at 20% of the cost, we will give them suggestions how to improve Tampa. An extra couple thousands in our pockets wouldn't hurt for about 10 minutes of our time typing up a plan and presenting it to the city in a hour long presentation.

[Jasonhouse]

I want a free lunch at Malio's too.

[burnside]

Del and smiley, I'm afraid Merriam-Webster passes over the essential distinction putting the Bourgeoisie in relation to other situations. They own, and often work for, their own enterprise.

Given this includes both the proprietor of your local patisserie and the chairman of Schlumberger or Limoges, there's a further distinction of petit bourgeois or grand bourgeois. It's not a 'class' distinguished along lines familiar here, and doesn't correspond to income precisely, as you can see. Nor will it translate to suburban or middle class in the way we usually think of those terms.

An IT specialist or engineer employed by a major firm here, or one of the quants at an international investment bank, may be very well-paid, but is nonetheless not bourgeois unless closely related to the owner - that is, they're working for a family enterprise.

[smiley]

^you are being a silly person.

[Jasonhouse]

This whole sidebar is silly.

Maybe now that the ULI has echoed sentiments long held by locals, maybe it's time for the locals to pour it on.

[Del Mayberry]

Originally Posted by smiley

the definition of bourgeois: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bourgeois

Jssonhouse, a friend sent me a link to this blog which pretty much says what you just said: http://tampasphere.wordpress.com/201...-movie-before/

yeah, I googled that too but it's vague. Here's a little bit from wiki (of course):

Bourgeoisie is a French word that was eventually borrowed directly into English, in the specific sense described above. In the French feudal order pre-revolution, "bourgeois" was a class of citizens who were wealthier members of the Third Estate. The French word bourgeois evolved from the Old French word burgeis, meaning "of a walled town" (cf. Middle English burgeis, Middle Dutch burgher and German Bürger). The Old French word burgeis is derived from bourg, meaning a market town or medieval village, itself derived from Old Frankish burg, meaning "town".[2]
The term bourgeoisie has been widely used as an approximate equivalent of upper class under capitalism[citation needed]. The word also evolved to mean merchants and traders, and until the 19th century was mostly synonymous with the middle class (persons in the broad socioeconomic spectrum between nobility and peasants or proletarians).

[burnside]

Del, that's awfully funny. All the gymnastics and academic runes at both dictionary and 'pedia are driven by the frantic determination to assure you and I that we are not peasants. But, as we're neither nobility nor landed gentry, nor do most of us own and operate some enterprise of our own - we work, that is, for someone who does - that's precisely what we are in the society which coined the term.

Bill Gates is grand bourgeois. I'm a peasant. In all probability, so are most of us.

[Del Mayberry]

Originally Posted by burnside

Del, that's awfully funny. All the gymnastics and academic runes at both dictionary and 'pedia are driven by the frantic determination to assure you and I that we are not peasants. But, as we're neither nobility nor landed gentry, nor do most of us own and operate some enterprise of our own - we work, that is, for someone who does - that's precisely what we are in the society which coined the term.

Bill Gates is grand bourgeois. I'm a peasant. In all probability, so are most of us.

I'm done with this debate. It was kinda fun. I still believe the word can only be interpreted. Comparing the old world French society to today's modern American society is something that not everybody will agree on. Now what was this thread about?