Worst slums in America.....third world or western world?

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by hudkina

Western Culture has been adapted to many countries around the world, but for a nation to truly be considered a Western Nation they must attain the technological and economic standing of the U.S. and Western Europe.

You are confusing culture with economics.

Anyways Argentina used to be on par with countries with Canada and Austrailia as recently as the 1950's until political problems stalled the economy. And there are many Argentines who have contributed major technological and scientific advances to the rest of the world.

However Argentina has always been "culturally" western ever since immigrants from Spain, Italy, France, and Germany started to outnumber the aboriginal population and brought their cultural mores and ideals with them.

Bottomline countries such as Japan and South Korea aren't western even though they are considered to be developed, while countries such as Argentina are cosidered to be Western.

[desertpunk]

^
Yep. They don't call Buenos Aires the "Paris of the Americas" for nothing. But there's always been cultural tensions between indigenous groups and the more European-oriented Ibero-American descendants of the colonizers. So 'Western' is both a particular mindset as well as a generalized term used to define the kind of modernization taking place in Latin America. I'd take the use of the term with a huge grain of salt.

[meaburroperomerio]

Originally Posted by diablo234

You are confusing culture with economics.

Anyways Argentina used to be on par with countries with Canada and Austrailia as recently as the 1950's until political problems stalled the economy. And there are many Argentines who have contributed major technological and scientific advances to the rest of the world.

However Argentina has always been "culturally" western ever since immigrants from Spain, Italy, France, and Germany started to outnumber the aboriginal population and brought their cultural mores and ideals with them.

Bottomline countries such as Japan and South Korea aren't western even though they are considered to be developed, while countries such as Argentina are cosidered to be Western.

Argentina until 1930/40 was the 8th giggest economy of the world...

[meaburroperomerio]

Originally Posted by desertpunk

^
Yep. They don't call Buenos Aires the "Paris of the Americas" for nothing. But there's always been cultural tensions between indigenous groups and the more European-oriented Ibero-American descendants of the colonizers. So 'Western' is both a particular mindset as well as a generalized term used to define the kind of modernization taking place in Latin America. I'd take the use of the term with a huge grain of salt.

In Argentina and Uruguay there is not a big population of indigenous groups... 97% of population is European descendent or other etnic groups like Asians and Africans in minor porcent.

[PaulBP]

Originally Posted by meaburroperomerio

In Argentina and Uruguay there is not a big population of indigenous groups... 97% of population is European descendent or other etnic groups like Asians and Africans in minor porcent.

thats not true at all. probably 50 or 60% of argentinian population is white, the other people is mixed race and a little number of indigenous.

[PaulBP]

Originally Posted by CanadianDemon

Go troll the boat by the stream. You're such a nationalistic loser. People need to stop having these bullshit views of the west.

Prefer I shove a candy apple up all you're asses and say "Congratulations on your pie!"

Your nation is not a shining example of anything, don't try to act like it is. It's just a developing nation that has gone through bad times, however the nation is recovering so STFU & GTFO. The only reason the youth are active in your nations are because your nation demands change.

Youth/Young Adults will always create high voter turnout or have an active role in politics when there is a demand for change. You seem to forget that it was mostly Young Adults that voted in Obama.

obama is just another bank and finance lamb. USA cant be a real democracy if the people isnt alowed of make new parties. a democracy of 2 parties isnt real democracy at all. and im not nationalistic.

[PaulBP]

Originally Posted by hudkina

Western Culture has been adapted to many countries around the world, but for a nation to truly be considered a Western Nation they must attain the technological and economic standing of the U.S. and Western Europe.

is just stupid. japans isnt western and they are probably better than westerners in many economical and tech subjects

[meaburroperomerio]

Originally Posted by PaulBP

thats not true at all. probably 50 or 60% of argentinian population is white, the other people is mixed race and a little number of indigenous.

JA,,, you´re completly wrong... Inform yorself BEFORE TALKING...

Introduction ::ARGENTINA
Geography ::ARGENTINA
People and Society ::ARGENTINA
Nationality:

noun: Argentine(s)
adjective: Argentine
Ethnic groups:

white (mostly Spanish and Italian) 97%, mestizo (mixed white and Amerindian ancestry), Amerindian, or other non-white groups 3%
Languages:

Spanish (official), Italian, English, German, French
Religions:

nominally Roman Catholic 92% (less than 20% practicing), Protestant 2%, Jewish 2%, other 4%
Population:

41,769,726 (July 2011 est.)
country comparison to the world: 32
Age structure:

0-14 years: 25.4% (male 5,429,488/female 5,181,289)
15-64 years: 63.6% (male 13,253,468/female 13,301,530)
65 years and over: 11% (male 1,897,144/female 2,706,807) (2011 est.)
Median age:

total: 30.5 years
male: 29.5 years
female: 31.6 years (2011 est.)
Population growth rate:

1.017% (2011 est.)
country comparison to the world: 115
Birth rate:

17.54 births/1,000 population (2011 est.)
country comparison to the world: 111
Death rate:

7.38 deaths/1,000 population (July 2011 est.)
country comparison to the world: 120
Net migration rate:

0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2011 est.)
country comparison to the world: 114
Urbanization:

urban population: 92% of total population (2010)
rate of urbanization: 1.1% annual rate of change (2010-15 est.)
Major cities - population:

BUENOS AIRES (capital) 12.988 million; Cordoba 1.493 million; Rosario 1.231 million; Mendoza 917,000; San Miguel de Tucuman 831,000 (2009)
Sex ratio:

at birth: 1.052 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.7 male(s)/female
total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2011 est.)
Maternal mortality rate:

70 deaths/100,000 live births (2008)
country comparison to the world: 85
Infant mortality rate:

total: 10.81 deaths/1,000 live births
country comparison to the world: 145
male: 12.08 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 9.48 deaths/1,000 live births (2011 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:

total population: 76.95 years
country comparison to the world: 68
male: 73.71 years
female: 80.36 years (2011 est.)
Total fertility rate:

2.31 children born/woman (2011 est.)
country comparison to the world: 97
Health expenditures:

9.5% of GDP (2009)
country comparison to the world: 37
Physicians density:

3.155 physicians/1,000 population (2004)
country comparison to the world: 34
Hospital bed density:

4 beds/1,000 population (2005)
country comparison to the world: 50
Drinking water source:

improved:
urban: 98% of population
rural: 80% of population
total: 97% of population
unimproved:
urban: 2% of population
rural: 20% of population
total: 3% of population (2008)
Sanitation facility access:

improved:
urban: 91% of population
rural: 77% of population
total: 90% of population
unimproved:
urban: 9% of population
rural: 23% of population
total: 10% of population (2008)
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate:

0.5% (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 69
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS:

110,000 (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 39
HIV/AIDS - deaths:

2,900 (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 46
Major infectious diseases:

degree of risk: intermediate
food or waterborne diseases: bacterial diarrhea, hepatitis A
water contact disease: leptospirosis (2009)
Children under the age of 5 years underweight:

2.3% (2005)
country comparison to the world: 106
Education expenditures:

4.9% of GDP (2007)
country comparison to the world: 63
Literacy:

definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 97.2%
male: 97.2%
female: 97.2% (2001 census)
School life expectancy (primary to tertiary education):

total: 16 years
male: 15 years
female: 17 years (2007)
Unemployment, youth ages 15-24:

total: 21.2%
country comparison to the world: 50
male: 18.8%
female: 24.7% (2009)


https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ar.html

[ColorMeWild22]

i would have to say the worst cities i have seen in the U.S. are St. Louis, Detroit, and Fresno

[Yuri S Andrade]

Those inland California cities don't look very nice indeed.

[old school]

Originally Posted by Guaporense

The definition of western is a tricky one. Usually the definition of western of a european heritage. My country, Brazil is a country whose culture is fully determined by European basis. For instance, architecture is mostly portuguese and italian in the southern states. Religion, 95% of brazilians are christians, higher proportion than the USA.

Take my hometown of Guaporé. The town's name derives from a native american tribal language, similar to many anglo saxon american placenames. Most of the population descends from Italian settlers that came in the late 19th century. The towns population is 23,000. Today 90.4% of the population of the town is white. It is as much as an european offshot with a european derived culture as typical small towns in the US.

The town looks like this:



A highschool class from the local Public School, which includes mostly people from the middle/lower classes:


Of course, that not "western", real western are these American highschoolers:

(actually the proportion of whites in southern brazil, in uruguay and argentina is higher than for the average of the USA and Canada)

Another city, close to Guaporé (60 miles) of 107,000 inhabitants, also founded by Italian colonists:


Life expectancy there was 77.4 years according to the 2010 census, higher than in 16 US states (one third of all US states).

So, how this city fits our view of the "third world where 90% of the population is without electricity and running water"? The fact is that the term third world is simplistic and should not be used at all. As it groups together places like Bento Gongalves with Ethiopian villages*.

How one can say that these places are not western? How? I can think only 1 reason: ignorance and stubbornness when presented with the facts to not learn from them and to hold strong simplistic beliefs about how the world is while ignoring reality.

*such as this:


I think I have made it rather clear that Latin America or at least parts of Latin America do not fit AT ALL the image that Latin America has in the United States (which fits more closely the reality of Mexico, even though it is also very distorted as Mexico is not remotely as bad as Americans think it is).

Overall, the whole idea that Latin America is less western than Anglo Saxon America is derived from a set of mutually reinforced prejudices. Ranging from their view that europeans migrated to Anglo saxonic america in mass while in Latin america the population descends from amerindians, mixed with the spanish and portuguese conquistadores, from their view that REAL Europe is UK and France, while Italy and Spain are not really European and from the association with developed countries and western civilization.

While it is true that European civilization is generally more advanced than the rest of the world, historically there were many exceptions. For instance, in the 11th century China was much more advanced than Europe. The West was backward and was "third world" in a sense at the time. The Middle East and India were also more advanced than Western Europe in the early middle ages.

However in another sense we can understand the entire world as western, since today nearly all countries in the world have their institutions based on European foundations. The least European part of the world is actually the middle east, which was actually part of the same civilization as Europe during Roman times but with the rise of Islamic and Christian religions Europe and the Middle East formed two distinct cultural spheres by the early middle ages, so in a sense the least western part of the world is the traditional arch enemy of the West since the middle ages. Or even earlier, as Iran today occupies the same region as the central regions of Persian Empire did and the Persians were the arch enemies of the Greeks during the Classical Period (500 BC - 323 BC) of Ancient History.

Also, in another sense one could even claim that Latin America is MORE western than the United States, UK, Sweden and Germany. Since Latin America is a direct offshoot of Southern Europe, which historically has been the cradle of European civilization (like the Italians from my hometown) while northern Europe has been for most of history a bunch of Celtic and Germanic tribals that were civilized by the Romans (which were actually Italians) by force. For example, Portuguese and Spanish are directly evolved from Latin while English is a Germanic language that evolved from the barbarian languages of the northern european tribes.

With all due respect, I think you are missing the point and confusing race with culture. Look, both photos show "western" students; just because one group is "white" and the other "black" means nothing since race is a social and cultural construct. Racially, southern Brazil is composed of people whose ancestors are from Southern Europe and Africa. But, that does not mean you share a common culture with those peoples. The last time I looked there is a BRAZILIAN culture, separate and distinct from Europe and Africa. Why you are not proud of it, only you can answer.
Furthermore, there is "western" and the "West". When people from the Middle East, Africa and Asia rail against the "West", they do NOT include Argentina, Chile and Brazil. The "West" means Western Europe and the US and Canada...

Paz...

[Yuri S Andrade]

You're arguing Brazil has a separated culture distinct of Europe's (which is obvious). So how come you group the US under the same label together with Europe? US-Europe is the same as Brazil-Europe one.

And Southern Brazil culture is not formed by "Southern European and Africans". The region is 80% White and 16% Mixed (who have in average 70% of European ancestry). The Germans form the second largest group after Italians, and the last time I've checked they're from Central Europe. PLEASE, enlighten me: what an average Italian has in common with an Asian-American from San Francisco or a Black from Mississippi or a German-American from Nebraska, but not share with those people in Rio Grande do Sul?

And your definition of "West", as people showed all over the thread, is bogus. "West" is formed by Europe and its offshoots (e.g. Americas and Oceania). There's no other definition. It's impossible to select criteria which might put Europe and North America in one side and Latin America in another.

[old school]

Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade

You're arguing Brazil has a separated culture distinct of Europe's (which is obvious). So how come you group the US under the same label together with Europe? US-Europe is the same as Brazil-Europe one.

And Southern Brazil culture is not formed by "Southern European and Africans". The region is 80% White and 16% Mixed (who have in average 70% of European ancestry). The Germans form the second largest group after Italians, and the last time I've checked they're from Central Europe. PLEASE, enlighten me: what an average Italian has in common with an Asian-American from San Francisco or a Black from Mississippi or a German-American from Nebraska, but not share with those people in Rio Grande do Sul?

And your definition of "West", as people showed all over the thread, is bogus and on the borderline of bigotry. "West" is formed by Europe and its offshoots (e.g. Americas and Oceania). There's no other definition. It's impossible to select criteria which might put Europe and North America in one side and Latin America in another.

Look, I know English is not your first language. But, there is a subtle difference between "West" and "western". The "West" are the former colonial powers of the UK, France plus Germany, US of A and Canada. Spain, Italy and Portugal are secondary players within the "West." Latin America is "western" with various degrees of non-European influence from country to country, and in the case of Brazil, within the same country.

So, Argentina, Brazil and Chile are "western" but not the "West". Do you understand?

[PaulBP]

Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade

You're arguing Brazil has a separated culture distinct of Europe's (which is obvious). So how come you group the US under the same label together with Europe? US-Europe is the same as Brazil-Europe one.

And Southern Brazil culture is not formed by "Southern European and Africans". The region is 80% White and 16% Mixed (who have in average 70% of European ancestry). The Germans form the second largest group after Italians, and the last time I've checked they're from Central Europe. PLEASE, enlighten me: what an average Italian has in common with an Asian-American from San Francisco or a Black from Mississippi or a German-American from Nebraska, but not share with those people in Rio Grande do Sul?

And your definition of "West", as people showed all over the thread, is bogus. "West" is formed by Europe and its offshoots (e.g. Americas and Oceania). There's no other definition. It's impossible to select criteria which might put Europe and North America in one side and Latin America in another.

you dont understand cause is an anglosaxon definition. its different in your langugage. so, just learn the meaning of west. of course west means many things, but not just the same as in your language. ok?
try to understand it, your country isnt par of west.
btw im sure that no one can give you an exact definition of west, but im sure that brazil is out of all

[Yuri S Andrade]

None of your posts makes sense.

[old school]

Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade

None of your posts makes sense.

I give up....

[Jennifat]

Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade

None of your posts makes sense.

You were probably taught in school that the Americas are just one continent, right?

We're taught that they're two continents in North America — it's merely a cultural difference. Just like how Latin America does not fit into our definition of the "West". You're beating a dead horse by saying that we're wrong, because that's simply not how it's defined here.

[tk780]

In Europe and North America, "Western" is generally understood to have an economic and political dimension, while in Latin America that might not be the case. During communism, Central Europe by definition was not thought of as Western, but it might be now since having been absorbed into the EU and NATO.

[meaburroperomerio]

Originally Posted by tk780

In Europe and North America, "Western" is generally understood to have an economic and political dimension, while in Latin America that might not be the case. During communism, Central Europe by definition was not thought of as Western, but it might be now since having been absorbed into the EU and NATO.

Most of the World KNOW that America IS ONE CONTINENT divided by Subcontinents( North, South and Central & Caribean)...
I have a notice for you... Europe IS JUST Europe... they dont say "There is two Continents, Development Europe and undevelopment Europe"...
And If you people REALLY KNOW Latin America Country by Country you would be surprised... And off the record I´ve live in Europe cause LIKE MOST OF ARGENTINIAN POPULATION, Ihave family in there and double nacionality... We are not considerated "third world" in Italy, France, Sapain, etc...
And for you to know, THERE IS A LOT of European who STILL today came to Southamerica to live AND STUDY... in my University there is a lot of Europeans studing...
And even when you Americans dont understand it YOU are wrong... I´m sorry to say it to you, but your country is/has not the right to everything... and being completly honest... most of your population really KNOW NOTHING about anything outside Aerica... Nothing... and in general culture&education you coud have IVY COLLEGUES but most of your population doesnt have that education... and most of population is ignorat in any term who implies anything aoutside USA.( I dont want to be rude, but You guys are... so I give you the point of view OF THE REST of the World, not just Latin people... if you someday travel a little you´ll see)

[apinamies]

Originally Posted by tk780

In Europe and North America, "Western" is generally understood to have an economic and political dimension, while in Latin America that might not be the case. During communism, Central Europe by definition was not thought of as Western, but it might be now since having been absorbed into the EU and NATO.

That is what I say on my post earlier. West is not only about culture it also economical development and politics. Brazil is friend of Iran for example. Brazil have many slums which you can't find at all in western countries.