Worst slums in America.....third world or western world?

[Jennifat]

Originally Posted by Northsider

Why is the Philippines on there as "Western"? It's one of the poorest countries in Asia, and has slums like nothing I've ever seen

Good question; looks like the map creator overlooked it because it's split up three ways. There's undoubtedly a Western influenced culture in the Philippines, but I guess...what place doesn't these days? Do you head over there often? I think I remember you saying that your wife is Filipina.

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by Jennifat

More often, though, Latin America is grouped into a category on its own. The culture is dominated by a hybrid Iberian/Aboriginal influence that separates it distinctly from the developed Western countries. Sure it's "Western" in the fact that it has European influence, but socio-economically, it's separate.

Here's a map that I think sums up what regions of the world belong to which types of civilization:

Some of those Latin American countries such as Argentina and Uruguay have very little Aboriginal influence.

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by Jennifat

Good question; looks like the map creator overlooked it because it's split up three ways. There's undoubtedly a Western influenced culture in the Philippines, but I guess...what place doesn't these days? Do you head over there often? I think I remember you saying that your wife is Filipina.

I haven't been there in about 5 or 6 years...however, I was in Indonesia (pretty similar to Philippines) last year.

[hudkina]

Originally Posted by kingchef

memphis has nothing comparable to the slums of new york, philadelphia, sections of l.a. and many others---gary, indiana, detroit, south side chicago.

Really? Because the last time I checked, Memphis had one of the highest crime rates in the nation. It also had one of the highest poverty rates in the country with about 25% of the city below the poverty line. Assuming that many neighborhoods in the city have low crime and poverty rates, that means that there must be other neighborhoods where crime and poverty are much higher.

[Ichiban]

Originally Posted by Jennifat

Good question; looks like the map creator overlooked it because it's split up three ways. There's undoubtedly a Western influenced culture in the Philippines, but I guess...what place doesn't these days? Do you head over there often? I think I remember you saying that your wife is Filipina.

With about 500 years of Spanish colonial rule, about 50 years of American colonial rule, and a strong Catholic tradition I can see the Philippines being listed as Western. The southern islands and Indonesia obviously fall under Islam and I have no idea why part of the north is showing as Sinic.

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by hudkina

Really? Because the last time I checked, Memphis had one of the highest crime rates in the nation. It also had one of the highest poverty rates in the country with about 25% of the city below the poverty line. Assuming that many neighborhoods in the city have low crime and poverty rates, that means that there must be other neighborhoods where crime and poverty are much higher.

The thread is about slums, not crime per capita. Chicago has huge swaths of completely vacant land, boarded up housing, terrible road conditions, trash, homelessness, etc. This is different than crime. Maybe I am misunderstanding the point of the thread...

With about 500 years of Spanish colonial rule, about 50 years of American colonial rule, and a strong Catholic tradition I can see the Philippines being listed as Western.

India was under British rule for how many years... I'd hardly consider it "western". Vietnam? There's tons of examples.

[Ichiban]

Originally Posted by Northsider

The thread is about slums, not crime per capita. Chicago has huge swaths of completely vacant land, boarded up housing, terrible road conditions, trash, homelessness, etc. This is different than crime. Maybe I am misunderstanding the point of the thread...


India was under British rule for how many years... I'd hardly consider it "western". Vietnam? There's tons of examples.

Spanish culture and the Catholic religion were absorbed by the Philippines to a much greater degree than India/Britain, Vietnam/France.

[-Corey-]

I dont think I've seen "slums" in America, yeah we've seen those empty and abandoned houses in Detroit but I don't think they're considered "slums", let alone shanty towns. Maybe the poorest places in America are found in New Orleans, Detroit and St. Louis.


And as for the map, also Latin America is considered as part ot the Western Cultures. One of the difference is that they're not developed. There are more differences between Kosovo and the UK than Argentina and Spain. (culturally of course). Although in the media, the term "Western World" usually means the North America (except MEX), Western Europe, Australia + New Zealand.

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by Ichiban

Spanish culture and the Catholic religion were absorbed by the Philippines to a much greater degree than India/Britain, Vietnam/France.

So a nation must be Catholic in order to be "Western"? I'm not following the logic...

It's really nothing like the West. Yes, it's Catholic. Yes, they speak English. Manila is a financial hub. Other than that it's a typical 3rd world nation with 3rd world problems (HUGE income disparity, endless slums, 24/7 gridlock traffic congestion, undrinkable water, deep rooted corruption, etc, etc). If you include Philippines based on your criteria, than all of South America would be "Western" (when they are typically not considered so).

[Ichiban]

Originally Posted by Northsider

So a nation must be Catholic in order to be "Western"? I'm not following the logic...

It's really nothing like the West. Yes, it's Catholic. Yes, they speak English. Manila is a financial hub. Other than that it's a typical 3rd world nation with 3rd world problems (HUGE income disparity, endless slums, 24/7 gridlock traffic congestion, undrinkable water, deep rooted corruption, etc, etc). If you include Philippines based on your criteria, than all of South America would be "Western" (when they are typically not considered so).

Of course a nation doesn't have to be Catholic to be Western. The US & UK are the biggest examples of that. My point is that the Philippines have a 500 year history of outside influence from other Western nations. For that reason I actually would include Latin America to be Western.

If you disagree with the definition, that's cool.

[hudkina]

Kosovo isn't considered the Western world. The Western world essentially consists of the areas of Europe that remained democracies in the Cold War era. Eastern Europe is not included.

BTW, a slum is defined by the people. Detroit has areas that are slums by American standards, but those should not be confused with abandoned neighborhoods. A street full of empty houses is not a slum. By American standards, neighborhoods defined by high levels of poverty and high levels of crime are slums. Memphis has plenty of slums as do Detroit and Chicago.

[Northsider]

Of course a nation doesn't have to be Catholic to be Western. The US & UK are the biggest examples of that. My point is that the Philippines have a 500 year history of outside influence from other Western nations. For that reason I actually would include Latin America to be Western.

Just trying to understand the logic. Architecturally, there's some Spanish influence. Same with the food. Outside of that I can't see anything I would definitely label as "western". Latin America? I can see the argument. Philippines? Uh uh.

Indonesia has 100s of years of outside influence (Dutch, Portuguese, etc) and I wouldn't consider them western either.

[BringMe]

Let's be clear:

The Western world, also known as the West and the Occidentis a term referring to the countries of Western Europe (including Cyprus), the countries of the Americas, as well all countries of Northern and Central Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

From a cultural and sociological approach the Western world is defined as including all cultures that are directly derived from Western European cultures, Western Europe, the Americas (North and South America), Australia and New Zealand. Together these countries constitute Western society

Though the Cold War has ended, and some members of the former Eastern Bloc are making a general movement towards liberal democracy and other values held in common by the traditionally Western states, most Soviet republics are not considered Western because of the small presence of social and political reform, as well as their obvious cultural, economic and political differences to what is known today as described by the term "The West" North America, Western and Central Europe, Baltic states and Croatia, Australia and New Zealand.

The term "Western world" is often interchangeablebly used with the term First World stressing the difference between First World and the Third World or developing countries.

So the term western world is more cultural South America Including Mexico (North America) and Central america Are part of the western culture, world whatever you want to call it

Originally Posted by -Corey-

[Yuri S Andrade]

Originally Posted by -Corey-

I dont think I've seen "slums" in America, yeah we've seen those empty and abandoned houses in Detroit but I don't think they're considered "slums", let alone shanty towns. Maybe the poorest places in America are found in New Orleans, Detroit and St. Louis.


And as for the map, also Latin America is considered as part ot the Western Cultures. One of the difference is that they're not developed. There are more differences between Kosovo and the UK than Argentina and Spain. (culturally of course). Although in the media, the term "Western World" usually means the North America (except MEX), Western Europe, Australia + New Zealand.

Now we have a good map of what Western World is. Western World refers to Europe and its footprint all over the world.

I didn't know West for some was synonyme of wealth. I also don't understand ths insistence of some to set Latin America apart from North America. What's the difference, really? Culturally, both regions are extensions of Europe. Maybe it's something racial? Well, in that case both Argentina and Uruguay are more western than the US or Canada.

Originally Posted by Jennifat

More often, though, Latin America is grouped into a category on its own. The culture is dominated by a hybrid Iberian/Aboriginal influence that separates it distinctly from the developed Western countries. Sure it's "Western" in the fact that it has European influence, but socio-economically, it's separate.

Here's a map that I think sums up what regions of the world belong to which types of civilization:

Latin America civilization?!?!?!?!? Really, what a hell is this? The Latin America countries are usually much more linked to Europe than among themselves. It's amazing the efforts to make the world fit inside plain stereotypes.

[hudkina]

Most Latin American countries are still developing. While they aren't third word nations, they don't have the robust economies that Western Europe, the U.S. and Canada have. Brazil and Italy have the same GDP, despite the fact that Brazil has over 3x as many people as Italy.

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade

...both Argentina and Uruguay are more western than the US or Canada.

...just remembered why I have your posts blocked. I should have known better.

I didn't know West for some was synonyme of wealth.

"The West" is synonymous with development. Development is synonymous with wealth. But it gets fairly difficult to describe South America as "developed" once you get outside of the major cities. Hell, even in the major cities the outskirts are nothing more than unpaved roads and shanties...[to be completely general]

[Yuri S Andrade]

Originally Posted by hudkina

Most Latin American countries are still developing. While they aren't third word nations, they don't have the robust economies that Western Europe, the U.S. and Canada have. Brazil and Italy have the same GDP, despite the fact that Brazil has over 3x as many people as Italy.

Hudkina, I didn't know the definition of "civilization" is based in how developed a country is. Chile is today more developed than France in 1980 or Portugal in 2005. So those countries were not "western" few years back? It's a very peculiar definition I must say.

Latin America IS Western. It's been a mere extension of Europe civilization for the past five centuries. The first "European" university outside Europe, for example, was founded in Latin America more than 200 years before the US becoming a country. The bonds between Europe and Latin America is as strong as between them and North America, maybe even deeper. Sometimes it seems the average American thinks they can understand a whole continent based what they see from their window. The reality is far more complex than that.

[hudkina]

I'm just giving you the argument for why Latin America is often grouped in its own category. Latin America doesn't have nearly as advanced economies as the Western World. The most developed Latin American nations (Argentina, Mexico, Chile, Uruguay) have per capita GDPs that are less than half of nearly every Western nation. $15,000 vs. $30,000 to $80,000 for most Western nations. When you start getting into the territory of Brazil ($11,000) and as far down as Nicaragua ($3,000) it's clear that there is a huge disparity between Latin America and the Western World.

[vid]

Haiti isn't part of Latin America? Many definitions I've heard of that term try to include Louisiana and Quebec!

[Yuri S Andrade]

Yesterday I was watching that show in Animal Planet, about law enforcement to protect animals. The episode took place in Philadelphia and many neighbourhoods there looks lot like poor districts in my city. And the city in the movie 12 Monkeys... Jesus!