Old Oak Common & Park Royal City/Transport Hub/Regeneration

[RBRJ]

http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/ful...2029-29536176/

The above brings together all the ideas that have been floating around about OCC. One interesting mention is that Sir Terry Farrell is calling the redevelopment Park Royal City. In the video, there can be seen what appears to be a cross between DLR & Croydon Tram. Is this indicitive of the North & West London Light Rail getting tacit support?

London Reconnections has a report on this.

[Steel City Suburb]

A good idea but so London centric. Another major project in London whilst the rest of the country suffers.

[kerouac1848]

Of course it is, it's being pursued by the borough of H&F (although some of the land is in my home borough of Brent). They're the authority who are trying to make the case, it's not a central government project. They're doing their job. The original HS2 just envisioned a station iirc. All the housing, commercial, etc developments are what H&F believe can be achieved if aims are set higher. No doubt they're spurred on to beat their neighbour's plan. It's overwhelmingly private development anyway bar the station.

[Harry]

Originally Posted by Steel City Suburb

A good idea but so London centric. Another major project in London whilst the rest of the country suffers.

I suppose you could always build the Park Royal Hub in Sheffield and move the Northern Hub to London.

[lasdun]

Originally Posted by Harry

I suppose you could always build the Park Royal Hub in Sheffield and move the Northern Hub to London.

You'll need some sort of link between the park royal hub and the High Speed one station, perhaps this could be high speed rail? Maybe MAGLEV!

[Takes cover]

[Jon10]

The light-rail routes seem a literal interpretation of this, from Boris's "Outer London Commission" report of June 2010:



(The "yellow" above is presumably "London Overground orange", and with rather more interchanges to radial routes than really exist. Or is it merely the Circle Line?)



This is the sand-pit you have to play in. You are given, say, four billion pounds of private funding, over a decade or two. There is no nimby opposition, as long as public transport plays the major part, and the surrounding area sees benefits from that. A wider and wider area of Park Royal can be rebuilt to a higher spec. if the core area proves successful. Enjoy.

[slipdigby]

Originally Posted by Jon10

This is the sand-pit you have to play in. You are given, say, four billion pounds of private funding, over a decade or two. There is no nimby opposition, as long as public transport plays the major part, and the surrounding area sees benefits from that. A wider and wider area of Park Royal can be rebuilt to a higher spec. if the core area proves successful. Enjoy.

Major urban planner wet dream really! I hope we get something of the quality of Vauban, rather than a slightly higher density rerun of Central MK with some "edgy" cladding thrown in.

Best,
Slip

[Trances]

Whats the image of the elevated train/tram?

[Jon10]

.
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...-%e2%80%93cee/

Treat it as purely illustrative!

(I'm worried about that woman who survives a high-speed train running non-stop through the HS2 station.)

The written blurb has this:



The above adds a North London Line station at the western end of the HS2/GWML platforms (and not as an extra Crossrail station, surely.)
.

It also has this, for more local transport:



where:

"An initial ‘hub and spoke’ system is foreseen – Park
Royal Transit (PRT). It can serve Old Oak Central, and
developments at Kensal, Park Royal's Southern Gateway
(North Acton) and Eastern Gateway (Willesden Junction), and
towards White City via the Hammersmith Hospital health
community. Eventually PRT could become an extended
network connecting more widely.

"Park Royal Transit will be a fast distributor network, in the
same way as London Docklands is opened up by the
Docklands Light Railway. PRT might be DLR-style, or automated
mini-trams (Personal Rapid Transit) such as used now at
Heathrow Airport."

It also shows extra platforms to the south of the GWML, on the old Eurostar depot site, for a diverted North London Line.

With the extra chords shown, this COULD be used by BOTH North London and the West London Line Overground trains (though WLL trains miss this out on the drawing, and it is quite a diversion). Trains running north from the two lines towards Willesden Junction would travel in opposite directions through the new station, and likewise southbound.

The green line, which must be the Southern service from the West London Line to Milton Keynes, also stops there, and uses a short distance of the Dudding Hill Line to reach the WCML. Other trains would use the whole Dudding Hill Line, to reach the MML, through Brent Cross Thameslink.

This is all in the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham. The light-rail line's eastern terminus is to try and neutralize Kensington & Chelsea's efforts to build a Crossrail station there, instead.
.

This is all fine and dandy - but the rest of the UK needs some investment as well.

[progressing nicely]

I found the vision document for this project and it looks ambitious. The area does need regeneration and it would be nice to see the west side of London get a boost after all the focus on the Docklands and Stratford.

http://www.westlondonalliance.org/wl..._low%20res.pdf

Both QPR and Chelsea are looking to relocate so maybe a stadium in or around here could be a possibility too

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by progressing nicely

I found the vision document for this project and it looks ambitious. The area does need regeneration and it would be nice to see the west side of London get a boost after all the focus on the Docklands and Stratford.

http://www.westlondonalliance.org/wl..._low%20res.pdf

Both QPR and Chelsea are looking to relocate so maybe a stadium in or around here could be a possibility too

It's rumoured that with the BBC leaving White City and Television centre they are talking to the football clubs looking at that site.

[bazza667]

In terms of interchanges at Old Oak Common, what about re-building North Action with a station on the London Overground with access to Crossrail and HS2 to the west. On the east add a station to the London Overground between Shepherds Bush and Willesden Junction for access to Crossrail and HS2 to the east

[Glom]

Originally Posted by bazza667

In terms of interchanges at Old Oak Common, what about re-building North Action with a station on the London Overground with access to Crossrail and HS2 to the west. On the east add a station to the London Overground between Shepherds Bush and Willesden Junction for access to Crossrail and HS2 to the east

I think such a station would probably span a mile. Acton Mainline was always about 10 minutes walk from North Acton tube. Then there's the little issue of the A40 in the way.

Speaking of which, the A40 is another selling point to the scheme. For all the talk of the fancy rail connections and such, important though they are, you're not going to get development nirvana without some road connections as well. The scheme might even get Gypsy Corner grade separated at last.

[streetquark]

Interesting plans but why divert the NLL? It's used for freight as well as LO, the Richmond branch doesn't have to go via HS2/Crossrail surely? wouldn't it be better to divert the WLL (which should be 4-tracked anyway, including diversions through Earl's Court and Clapham Junction) to run west parallel to the HS2/Crossrail station then curve round into Willesden Junction LL to take over the DC lines to Primrose Hill then onto Camden etc?

There is a lack of connectivity between Willesden Junction and OOC IMO, with the North Acton interchange an added complication. Is it HS2/Crossrail-interchanging or not?

Moving the HS2 and Crossrail station west. Why? So there can be 2 Crossrail stations not totally on top of each other? looks like a sop to H&F council to me...

So all this will get a light rail to connect it? If the developers will pay for it ok but what about redeveloping Willesden Junction, straightening out the HL station platform curviture, having extra tracks along the LO routes? Where is Crossrail's possible Watford branch, where are the tube lines? Are those tube trains at the Crossrail station in the last rendition?

[mr_jrt]

Still think that North Acton needs to be moved eastwards.

Also, I suspect a far better use than the light rail on the old GWR freight alignment would be to reinstate the freight lines between the WLL and the Chiltern mainline.

[Jon10]

Originally Posted by mr_jrt

... reinstate the freight lines between the WLL and the Chiltern mainline.

Please explain that "reinstate" location.

The mayor has just answered an OOC/HS2 question:

HS2

Question No: 2889 / 2011

Navin Shah

Does the Mayor share my concern about the potential impact of HS2 on the West London Waste Authority transfer station in Hillingdon? Is he doing anything to help resolve the uncertainty?

Written answer received on 25 October 2011:

I am aware of the issue you have raised and the potential impact of the HS2 alignment on rail access to the existing waste transfer station. The current proposals for HS2 sever this access and it is not clear at this point whether an alternative is going to be provided. I know the London Borough of Hillingdon has made representations to the Secretary of State on this matter and I would share their concerns.

I have made it clear that although there is a great case for investing in a high speed rail network, which has the potential to generate major benefits for both London and the UK, my support on the proposal being consulted on is conditional on a number of issues being addressed, which are set out below:

1. Environmental effects – I am seeking changes to the design of the route to ensure any impacts on west Londoners are properly addressed, preferably by tunnelling the whole route through London;

2. Euston dispersal – I am seeking a commitment from the Government that their proposals for HS2 will include a package of measures for addressing the impacts at Euston, including delivery of the first phase of the Chelsea Hackney Line (Crossrail 2) between Clapham Junction and Seven Sisters;

3. Old Oak Common – I am seeking a commitment that complementary rail and other transport enhancements for Old Oak Common are included in the core HS2 scheme to ensure it is accessible to the wider area, and;

4. HS2-HS1 connection - I am asking that the Government consider alternative options that do not impact on North London Line services or limit the potential for these services to be enhanced in the future.

As with any railway, some closures will always be necessary so that TfL can properly maintain the Tube in a safe and reliable condition.

[mr_jrt]

Originally Posted by Jon10

Please explain that "reinstate" location.

The Great Western Railway built/took over the Ealing and Shepherd's Bush Railway between the GWR @ Ealing Broadway and the West London Railway. The Central Line gained running powers over this new line and was extended from Wood Lane to meet it at White City.

Due to congestion, the GWR quadrupled the route to segregate the freight from the Central Line quite quickly. The new platform at North Acton was partly built on the formation of the disused freight lines.

I'd propose extending the soon-to-be abolished District Line via Olympia to be extended up through Sheperd's Bush and out to West Ruislip (along with other works to make this viable), enabling the Central to be diverted somewhere else where it's smaller tunnels aren't wasted on long surface sections (i.e. along under the Uxbridge Road instead of the West London Tram).

[streetquark]

Originally Posted by mr_jrt

Still think that North Acton needs to be moved eastwards.

Like I said, together with the HS2 station further west it seems like H&F council really wanted to squeeze in another station further east - in H&F.

Originally Posted by Jon10

4. HS2-HS1 connection - I am asking that the Government consider alternative options that do not impact on North London Line services or limit the potential for these services to be enhanced in the future.

Why not a through route linking the 2 with a through international station just north of St. Pancras?

[mr_jrt]

Originally Posted by streetquark

Like I said, together with the HS2 station further west it seems like H&F council really wanted to squeeze in another station further east - in H&F.

I actually like the idea of another station - with the caveat that the line needs to be 6 tracks (ideally to airport junction), with the station on the local lines, not the relief lines nor the mains. To that I'd also add a platforms on these local lines at Westbourne Park to interchange with the H&C without adding to the congestion at Paddington.

Basically, the local lines would be the Heathrow Crossrail service, and the suburban (inner to Reading, outer to Didcot & Newbury) Crossrail services would then have the relief lines to themselves from Airport Junction.

Originally Posted by streetquark

Why not a through route linking the 2 with a through international station just north of St. Pancras?

Because this country is terminally incapable of long-term planning?

It really riles me to hear politicians crowing that their ideas to route HS1 in from the east into St. Pancras were so great. The result being that HS1 terminates facing south and the Midland Mainline is terminally short of terminal platforms, the North London Line can't have grade separated junctions built as HS1 is directly underneath, and Stratford International is a white elephant. Why St. Pancras couldn't have been refurbished as it was without HS1 (i.e. as Kings Cross is being!) and a new E-W HS station built north of the two on the huge Kings Cross Railway lands development is beyond me. I'd envisage the "London North" station like Stratford International, but with at least twice as many platforms (i.e. 8+).

Even a station terminating from the south as originally planned would have been better, as onward extensions up the East & West coasts would have been natural continuations without needing reversals!

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by mr_jrt

Why St. Pancras couldn't have been refurbished as it was without HS1 (i.e. as Kings Cross is being!) and a new E-W HS station built north of the two on the huge Kings Cross Railway lands development is beyond me.

That's a nice idea, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as well connected to LUL and NR as St Pancras International currently is...