daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 30th, 2009, 04:36 PM   #161
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messi View Post
They are not doing much? I'm not sure if there is any other city with similar construction activity.
What I meant is this: they have not started construction on any new line since about four years. Reports constantly mention that the planning on the Besiktas, Üsküdar, and Beylikdüzü lines and the Kirazli-Bakirköy extension are completed and they could be opened for bidding any minute or that the bidding has actually started, but nothing is happening. So my question is what is happening after 2013 and how do they want to manage to get their 600 km network together?
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 30th, 2009, 04:41 PM   #162
Messi
Tinerci Gençlik
 
Messi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 10,058
Likes (Received): 2430

They shouldn't start any construction before they complete those lines u/c anyway.
Those lines which are u/c right now are part of the first phase (2007-2011) then there is a second phase which the line you mentioned is part of (2010-2014) and the rest is the third phase which will be completed by 2023 latest which is at the same time the 100th year of the Republic of Turkey.

*I'm not 100% sure about the exact years but it should be like that, maybe +/- 1 year.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Messi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #163
hans280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 173

Interesting, many thanks dear Baron. (Do you mind if I call you Maurice? )

I didn't realise that Old Constantinople had a more extensive tram network than our days - even taking into account the extensions underway. I'm particularly enthralled by the tram line that apparently connected Taksim directly with Eminönü in the old days, without recourse to the Tünel furnicular. Considering how steep those streets are that's some achievement.

Still, even so, this doesn't change my argument much: the new T1 may follow the trace of an old tramline, but it still a fact that T1 runs separately from the car traffic - and I personally think that it would not have been viable unless it were kept separate. I've taken that tram many times and the one part if the trajectory that I tend to dislike (from a traffical viewpoint, mind you. The view is stunning...) is the stretch from Sultan Ahmed to Eminönü. - And that's PRECISELY because there's no room for giving the tram its own separate lanes and, therefore, it slows down to a crawl.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
hans280 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2009, 05:41 PM   #164
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

Nope, they have announced that they would/could start these lines several times. In Besiktas, they tore down the Tansas and the halk pazari in expectation of construction in 2006. Now there is a sign on the square advertising the future subway line and a booth where a woman from the muncipality tells people that everything will start very soon. Even then, according to her, they will build the metro in stages, commencing with the stub of Kabatas-Besiktas. Just add it up: at this speed they can never create those additional 400 km in just ten years time (2013-2023).
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2009, 05:48 PM   #165
Lightton
Registered User
 
Lightton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,002
Likes (Received): 1695

I would like to go again to Istambul, I been in February this year, but I dint see the Underground, Just in Taksim I saw the small underground with 2 stop I think so. Greetings my friends from Turkey.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Lightton no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #166
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

I do not know when you were last in ole Constantinople. The problem between Sirkeci and Sultanahmet is basically fixed, there are seperate lanes now (since about 3 years).
The old tram from Karaköy to Istiklal Caddesi did of course not go up straight like the tünel does. It zigzagged a bit. Nonetheless, it must have been a steep ascent. In fact the Istanbulites of the time saw the tight network of electric trams as their city's expression of modern life. Tearing them down was I believe not a popular event.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #167
Messi
Tinerci Gençlik
 
Messi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 10,058
Likes (Received): 2430

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
Nope, they have announced that they would/could start these lines several times. In Besiktas, they tore down the Tansas and the halk pazari in expectation of construction in 2006. Now there is a sign on the square advertising the future subway line and a booth where a woman from the muncipality tells people that everything will start very soon. Even then, according to her, they will build the metro in stages, commencing with the stub of Kabatas-Besiktas. Just add it up: at this speed they can never create those additional 400 km in just ten years time (2013-2023).
Nope, Tansas and the rest was destorey because they wanted to expand the Besiktas square and build a tunnel for cars so that you had a big square at the end. It was a promise before the elections and they forgot it after the elections as usualy. Also the naval museum is going to be rebuilt but so far no action for subway construction.

Here you can see that the Besiktas metro is part of the second phase.http://www.ibb.gov.tr/tr-TR/kurumsal...mler/popup.htm

Here is the project about the Besiktas square I mentioned above.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by Messi; November 30th, 2009 at 08:09 PM.
Messi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2009, 09:24 PM   #168
ovem
Commieblocks fan
 
ovem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,825
Likes (Received): 885

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messi View Post
Moscow and Madrid have already world's best networks but currently they are not building that much, are they? I mean they don't need to do that since they have already a very dense network.
That's what I'm saying. that they could beat Istanbul a few years ago, but not anymore My opinion is that Istanbul has to focus a little bit more in Metro systems and not so much light-rail. The distanses are huge and have to be covered by a huge network Light rail is a little bit inadequate for such a huge city. Well it can help for small distances.
btw do they plan an underwater tunnel in Besiktas to the Asian side or just to a new underground avenue?
__________________
My tumblr

Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by ovem; November 30th, 2009 at 09:31 PM.
ovem no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2009, 09:35 PM   #169
ovem
Commieblocks fan
 
ovem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,825
Likes (Received): 885

wow! many old lines are used by new ones on the same route Are there any plans to expand the tram from Besiktas to Ortakoy? This could replace some bus lines. I think there's enough space along the coastal Avenue for the tram extension.
__________________
My tumblr

Highcliff liked this post
ovem no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 11:08 AM   #170
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

Originally the Tram no. 1 was supposed to be extended from Kabatas at least to Besiktas (note that Kabatas does not look like a proper last stop but more like temporary). However critics claimed that this would hinder car traffic, as there are presently 4 lanes of traffic between Dolmabahce and Besiktas. So it was decided this part should be served by a subway. Since then 3 years have passed and (see Istanbul metro thread) no sign of any activity. Also the mayor has promised a subway all the way up the Bosporus. A tram up the Bosporus would be the perfect solution, it would be great for sunday trips and popular, but for this one would have to seriously limit car traffic (especially through the tight streets in the old villages), and as in Istanbul it is still considered the priviledge of cars to go where ever they please, this will not happen. Pedestrians strolling along the sea will have to continue to be inhaling intoxicating amounts of car exhaust and when they want to leave, suffer in traffic jammed buses.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 11:18 AM   #171
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

No underwater tunnel anytime soon here. Just a way of reuniting the carsi (center) of Besiktas with the sea, at present divided by one of the busiest streets of the city and difficult to cross. The planned subway should follow the course of the street, i.e. parallel to the sea when coming from the left of the picture, then turning 90° to head inland and uphill. Problem is, as far as I know, that the plans for the car tunnel completely ignores the subway plan and also has no idea what to do with the countless busses and mini busses terminating in Besiktas.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 12:11 PM   #172
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,434
Likes (Received): 1145

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
Actually, it is the other way around. M1 (Airport-Aksakaray, red on the map) is the name of the light rail metro, M2 the high capacity metro (YenikapiHaciosman, dark green). The new metro in Asia (Kadiköy-Kartal) will be high capacity as well, as will the turquoise line (Kirazli-Olympic Stadium/Basak K.) in the west of town.
@waitingforgod: note that this map is not today, but as the metro should look in the year 2013. Present extent of rail systems is 140 km, half of which was built before 1875. In 2013 the city should have 210 km, while the municipality promises to raise the number to more than 600 km of tracks by 2023, although they are not doing very much for this at the moment.
Thanks for knowing that Asina side metro will also be like M2, i.e true metro/subway.

I've recently read other plans also. Now my questions are -

1.Will the Otogar-Bağcılar-Başakşehir-Olimpiyat Stadı line & Kadıköy-Kartal line use M2 style wide metro stock? Or M1 style narrow light rail stock? Any idea? Please write.
2.Is the subway (M2) running extended now from 4 Levent to Maslak & from Taksim to Yenikapi?
3.Will this line further run from Maslak to Istinye, from Yenikapi to Basaksehir via Bakırköy and Ikrselli Deresi, from Ikrselli Deresi to Basaksehir, from Bakırköy to Bakırköy IDO & from Ikrselli Deresi to Sefakoy in future?
4.Will there be a branch line from Gayrettepe to Bogazici University in future?
5.Will there be a new line from Sisli to Sishane via Okmaydani, & from Okmaydani to Merier in future?
6.Will there be a new line from Uskuder to Dudullo?

If all these routes are under construction/planned, then please answer me that will those lines use M2 style wide metro stock? Or M1 style narrow light rail stock?

Please answer me one by one, mentioning the last paragraph's question.

What is the target of opening the turquoise line(in west) and the brown line (probably the Asian side metro)?

The stations names of those planned lines are not prominent. Can anyone write those clearly?
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 12:31 PM   #173
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,434
Likes (Received): 1145

T1 was previously served by high floor ABB light rail stocks, which was later transferred to M1. T1 is now served by low floor Bombardier tram stocks. So now this is really a modern tram line.

But T2 & T4 is using high floor ABB & Rotem light rail stocks. Are there any plans to replace these line’s stocks also later by low floor Bombardier tram stocks? If not, it should be renamed as light rail/ light metro lines, not tram lines.

This thread still does not much information about previously closed trams before 1966, and the The T3 & T5 heritage trams, opened respectively in 1990 & 2003. Please add those.

I’ve some questions; please answer me one by one –

1.Will there be a branch line from Zeytenburnu to Bakırköy IDO University & from Eminonu to Bayrampasa in future?
2.Will this line further run from Bagcilar to Spor Satonu in future?
3.Will there be a new line from Kadikoy to Bostancy?
If all these routes are under construction/planned, then please answer me that will those lines use T2 & T4 style high floor light rail stock? Or T1 style low floor tram stock?

*Is there any remaining present of the previous tram system in Istanbul, which was closed in 1966?
*Will be there any connection in future between heritage & modern tram?
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 01:26 PM   #174
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

Is this a quiz?

1.Will the Otogar-Bağcılar-Başakşehir-Olimpiyat Stadı line & Kadıköy-Kartal line use M2 style wide metro stock? Or M1 style narrow light rail stock? Any idea? Please write.
They are two seperate lines (see map above). Otogar-Kirazli will be a branch line of M1, so obviously light rail, Kirazli to Olympic Stadium with branch to Basaksehir (turquoise line) wide metro stock.
2.Is the subway (M2) running extended now from 4 Levent to Maslak & from Taksim to Yenikapi?
Yes, but as 3 seperate lines. Supposedly in Feb. 2010 they will run as a single line.
3.Will this line further run from Maslak to Istinye, from Yenikapi to Basaksehir via Bakırköy and Ikrselli Deresi, from Ikrselli Deresi to Basaksehir, from Bakırköy to Bakırköy IDO & from Ikrselli Deresi to Sefakoy in future?
Maslak to Istiniye: 2 stations are u/c (until Haciosman). There is an intent to continue the line down to the Bosphorus just before Sariyer pier, but no concrete plans yet;
Yenikapi to Bakirköy-Incirli (M2): the plan is approved by the municpality, but they do not seem to give priority to this extension.
Bakirköy IDO to Basaksehir: this is a southern extension of the turquoise map on the line. This is one of the four priority projects that is supposed to start next (project development completed, ready for bidding at any time).
4.Will there be a branch line from Gayrettepe to Bogazici University in future?
This is indicated on some municipal maps, but recently the mayor talked of linking bogazici university by monorail to Levent station.
5.Will there be a new line from Sisli to Sishane via Okmaydani, & from Okmaydani to Merier in future?
This is one of the four priority projects (Kabatas-Besiktas-Sisli-Okmeydani-Alibeyköy-Mahmutbey).
6.Will there be a new line from Uskuder to Dudullo?
This is one of the four priority projects.
If all these routes are under construction/planned, then please answer me that will those lines use M2 style wide metro stock? Or M1 style narrow light rail stock?
According to my knowledge, Bakirköy IDO extension and Kabatas-Mahmutbey will be wide metro stock (70,000 passenger/h capacity), while the Üsküdar-Dudullu and the fourth priority line (Bakirköy Incirli-Beylikdüzü) are planned to be narrow metro stock (45,000 pas./h).
Please answer me one by one, mentioning the last paragraph's question.

What is the target of opening the turquoise line(in west)
Serving the Olympic Stadium which was built in the middle of nowhere.
and the brown line (probably the Asian side metro)?
Relieving commuter traffic, this being one of the busiest routes (people work in Europe, than take the ferry and head eastwards to sleep).
Always at your service, the Baron
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 01:55 PM   #175
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

- You really want to know everything. Hope the Istanbul municpality will hire you as its ambassador.

#But T2 & T4 is using high floor ABB & Rotem light rail stocks. Are there any plans to replace these line’s stocks also later by low floor Bombardier tram stocks? If not, it should be renamed as light rail/ light metro lines, not tram lines.
- Technically the stock is compatible. On T4 the municipality promises to introduce the first tram made in Turkey. For more news on rolling stock, see http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1015023
# This thread still does not much information about previously closed trams before 1966, and the The T3 & T5 heritage trams, opened respectively in 1990 & 2003. Please add those.
- T5 is not the official number of the Taksim-Tünel nostalgic tram. it has no real number, as it is operated by a different municipal company.
# I’ve some questions; please answer me one by one –

1.Will there be a branch line from Zeytenburnu to Bakırköy IDO University & from Eminonu to Bayrampasa in future?
2.Will this line further run from Bagcilar to Spor Satonu in future?
3.Will there be a new line from Kadikoy to Bostancy?

- All these lines are projected for later stages of transport development, will not see construction anytime soon (as in the next 10 years). Only line which is already approved by the municpality, but not opened for bidding yet is an Eminönü-Alibeyköy extension (along the southern coast of the Golden Horn).

# If all these routes are under construction/planned, then please answer me that will those lines use T2 & T4 style high floor light rail stock? Or T1 style low floor tram stock?
- In ten years, you will have to worry about that.
*Is there any remaining present of the previous tram system in Istanbul, which was closed in 1966?
- no tracks whatsoever. Possibly, some tram depot somewhere...
*Will be there any connection in future between heritage & modern tram?[/QUOTE]
- no
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 02:58 PM   #176
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,434
Likes (Received): 1145



I've collected some old photos from internet of the pre 1966 tram network. Can anybody inform about the places & snap the exact position how it shows today? Please follow the following format -
photo 7 - Galata
photo 13 - Taksim etc.

Waiting eagerly for reply.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 03:08 PM   #177
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,434
Likes (Received): 1145



This type of stock was made by whom? Which line(s) is/are using it.

Line 1 and Line 2 connections




[\QUOTE]

Line 2 stocks are actually light rail stock.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2009, 03:11 PM   #178
Messi
Tinerci Gençlik
 
Messi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 10,058
Likes (Received): 2430

T1 was previously served by high floor ABB light rail stocks, which was later transferred to M1. T1 is now served by low floor Bombardier tram stocks. So now this is really a modern tram line.


Yes, T1 is a low-floor modern tram line now. They also improved the stations and the appearance of the track now. It looks quite modern now.

First it looked like that in the 90's. ABB high-floor vehicles with high floor stations.
[IMG]http://i46.************/1548xfq.jpg[/IMG]


Then the trams were replaced by low-floor Bombardiers and low-floor stations



And finally the track was modernized. It looks more suitable to its surroundings now.

Used to look like that
[IMG]http://i49.************/281afyd.jpg[/IMG]

And now:
[IMG]http://i50.************/6h72w5.jpg[/IMG]




But T2 & T4 is using high floor ABB & Rotem light rail stocks. Are there any plans to replace these line’s stocks also later by low floor Bombardier tram stocks? If not, it should be renamed as light rail/ light metro lines, not tram lines.

T1 & T2 is actually one line. T1 line was extended but the number of vehicles was not enough for the extended line so they bought some old high-floor trams from Cologne and used them on T2.

Those from Cologne:


But now Alstoms began to arrive in Istanbul (37 in number) and they will make one line out of two. So there won't be t1+t2 but just t1 on which Alstoms and Bombardiers will run together. (55 bombardier + 37 alstom)

Those are the Alstoms:



About the rest of your questions, I'm sorry I don't have knowledge about historic lines and regarding the other questions about the lines plans exist about these lines but they are not on the agenda, there are some more important lines to be constructed. The lines which are planned won't be tram lines so yes they will use high-floor trains.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Messi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2009, 01:32 PM   #179
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,434
Likes (Received): 1145

I've a suggesion. The European side's heritage tram could be extended about 1 Km. southward to join it with modern tram T1. Although guage is incompatible, but people can see at a point that two generations trams are running/standing side by side.

What about this plan?
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2009, 12:49 PM   #180
hokomoko
Registered User
 
hokomoko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: istanbul
Posts: 249
Likes (Received): 86

Very good idea, will tell this in our transportation forum soon...
www.istanbululasim.net
hokomoko no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
istanbul, metro, tram, túnel, ulaşım

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium