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Old October 30th, 2011, 01:24 PM   #21
1878EFC
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Their once was an attempt to clean the town hall but as you can see it failed. Here is some great historical information on the hall:

Quote:
In 1775 the approach of the American War of Independence had brought a depression in trade with the New World and when sailors' wages were cut a bitter strike ensued.

At the height of the riots 50 ships were anchored in the Mersey and a ship's cannon was used, albeit unsuccessfully, to attack the Town Hall.

Having survived the riot almost unscathed, 20 years later, in 1795 fire broke out and destroyed much of the building.

By that time the Town Hall had become such a vital part of city life that the civic authorities ordered restoration to begin immediately, under the supervision of London architect, James Wyatt. Wyatt completed the work over 15 years, rebuilding and expanding on Wood's design. The result of his work is basically the Town Hall as it is today.

The Town Hall had another lucky escape in 1881 when the Fenians attempted to blow up the building. Fortunately a police constable managed to drag the device away from the building before it exploded but the two conspirators were soon caught and each received a long prison sentence.

At the outbreak of the Second World War the Council had the collection of treasures removed to safety. Although the Blitz of 1941 brought devastation to large areas of Liverpool, the Town Hall survived but with extensive damage to the Council Chamber and Ballroom.

The weakened structure underwent immediate restoration work and today remains one of the oldest and finest buildings in the City.
From here: http://www.civichalls.liverpool.gov....tory/index.asp

If I am not mistaken it also has some shrapnel damage on it from WWII. Also on the road facing their is a sanctuary stone:

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...2534-29008463/

The North Western Hall was once a hotel but is now student accommodation, hope one day it becomes a hotel again. The area around Lime St is in need of regeneration.

This is the man who was killed by the train: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Huskisson
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Old October 30th, 2011, 01:50 PM   #22
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Then we went into the little town right there (actually I think it used to be a seperate town but is now a part of Liverpool though I can’t remember its name).
The area you're referring to is Waterloo Dan.

Here's a bit more history that may be of interest to you? The very last act of the American Civil War took place at Liverpool Town Hall.

Quote:
Liverpool - The Home of the Confederate Fleet

The first act of the war - the first shot of the civil war was fired by a cannon made at Lydia Anne Street.

The very last act of the war - Captain Waddell of the CCS Shenandoah, walking up the steps of Liverpool Town Hall surrendering his vessel to the Lord Mayor, after sailing 'home' from Alaska to surrender.

On the outbreak of war the Northern Union fleet blockaded Confederate ports to prevent trade and supply of munitions of war. The Confederacy had no navy and proceeded to build one from Liverpool.

The break-away Confederacy was not recognised by the United Kingdom, with cotton importers Frazer Trenholm in Rumford Place acting as the unofficial Confederate embassy. Commander Bulloch of the Confederate Navy was based in Liverpool. He never returned to America after the conflict remaining in Liverpool for the rest of his life now laying in Toxteth Cemetery. Liverpool provided ships, crews for the ships, armaments and provisions of war of all kinds for the Confederacy. The city also provided ships for the Northern Union.

Northern Union Spy Network Formed in Liverpool

Britain stated that the country would not supply the means of war to the Confederacy. Liverpool's involvement in supplying the Confederacy was so extensive, the Northern Union Consul to Liverpool, Thomas Dudley, set up an effective spy network in Liverpool, consisting of locally hired men of over 100 strong. Information was relayed back to Washington.

Lancashire Reduced to Mass Poverty

The American Civil War caused great poverty in the hinterland of Lancashire where the prime industry was cotton processing and weaving. The cotton used was mainly American with little imported, reducing the whole region to starvation levels, affecting over half a million people. Cotton was eventually sourced elsewhere, however the lead time was lengthy and never closed the gap.

The UK government was officially neutral in the dispute and never recognised the breakaway Confederacy. This entailed not supplying the means of war to the breakaway state. Liverpool ignored officialdom supplying what the Confederacy wanted - even warships and the crews to man them. Forty two blockade runners, ships to outrun the Northern Union naval blockade on Confederate ports, were built on the Mersey for the Confederacy, including the Banshee, the first steel hulled ship to cross the Atlantic. Merchants were taking a gamble with many becoming bankrupt after the war not being paid for the goods they supplied.

Threat of War Between the Northern Union and Britain

Laird's shipyard was building clandestinely for the Confederacy two iron hulled rams - armoured, iron twin rotating turreted ships, the most advanced in the world at the time. These ships would have devastated the wooden Northern Union fleet. The spy network relayed the information back to Washington. Abraham Lincoln threatened to declare war on the UK if the ships were delivered to the Confederacy. The UK, being officially neutral, once convinced the ships were for the Confederacy, claimed the ships which were absorbed into the Royal Navy.

The British government would seize ships if convinced ships were destined for the Confederacy. The Northern Union had to provide conclusive proof before seizure. The Alexandra was seized while being fitted out in Liverpool. She eventually was sold to a Confederate sympathising Liverpool merchant who named here Mary. When entering the Bahamas, with guns on board, the Northern Union managed to persuade the British authorities to again seize her.

Alabama Claims

Liverpool's involvement in the conflict was so deep, after the war the USA demanded vast reparations for the damage caused by the mainly Liverpool built Confederate ships, especially the Lairds built CSS Alabama. Known as the Alabama Claims, an arbitration panel in Geneva, awarded the U.S.A. $15,500,000. To put this into perspective, CSS Alabama cost £97,000 to build. That is the cost of 159 CCS Alabamas - a whole fleet. This was rather harsh as the British government did seize ships that were known to be destined for the Confederacy. Admitting no guilt the British government apologised for the loss caused by the ships.
CSS Alabama

CSS Alabama, was built at Lairds shipyard in secrecy masquerading as a merchant ship. She had a mainly Liverpool crew and was the most successful ship in the history of naval warfare with 55 ships claimed and 10 bonded.

She was built on the Mersey in 1862, crewed mainly by Liverpudlians, fought for America, was the most successful ship in the history of naval warfare and never once dropped anchor in an American port. In a close, fierce battle off Cherburg in France, in front of the assembled townspeople, CSS Alabama was sunk by USS Kearsarge in August 1864.

CSS Alabama was laid down as SS Enrica, a fast sleek steam/sailing merchant vessel. However she had reinforced parts of the ship to accommodate guns and built to British Admiralty standards. The Northern Union spy network in Liverpool informed the US Consul, even giving a full detailed description of the interior, resulting in Washington pressing the British government to seize the ship. Washington sent over a Northern Union ship to intercept Enrica if she left Liverpool. The Northern Union clearly pointed out the ship was built for speed far in excess of a merchant ship - which did not convince some as fast merchant clippers operating the Liverpool-Australia run were already common.

The British government was eventually convinced that the ship was a man-o-war and were ready to seize her as she was under trials in the river. Enrica had a party on board sailing up and down the river with buntings flying which was common for new ships - guests, wives and families were on board. At New Brighton a steam tug approached the vessel and the guests taken off, including Commander Bulloch. Enrica bolted out of the river sheltering in an Anglesey bay. She entered the Atlantic between Ireland and Scotland to avoid any Northern Union ships sent to engage her. Enrica was British registered with a British crew and captain who worked for Cunard. If the Northern Union had sunk or seized her, international repercussions may have resulted.

Enrica rendezvoused off the Azores in international waters with supply ship Agrippina, which was loaded at London Docks to avoid suspicion. Agrippina was carrying the guns and war provisions. After fitting out, complete with a largely Liverpool crew, Confederate officers took command renaming Enrica CSS Alabama.

Sea Shanty - Roll Alabama, Roll

When the Alabama's Keel was Laid, (Roll Alabama, roll!),
'Twas laid in the yard of Jonathan Laird (Roll, roll Alabama, roll!)
'Twas Laid in the yard of Jonathan Laird, 'twas laid in the town of Birkenhead.
Down the Mersey way she rolled then, and Liverpool fitted her with guns and men.
From the western isle she sailed forth, to destroy the commerce of the north.
To Cherbourg port she sailed one day, for to take her count of prize money.
Many a sailor laddie saw his doom, when the Kearsarge it hove in view.
When a ball from the forward pivot that day, shot the Alabama's stern away.
Off the three-mile limit in '64, the Alabama was seen no more.

[B]CSS Shenandoah

After the Confederacy had surrendered and the war over, CSS Shenandoah continued to sink Northern Union ships in the Pacific and off Alaska, unaware of the war's end. She surrendered on 6th November 1865, to HMS Donegal in the River Mersey while at anchor between Toxteth and Tranmere, six months after the war had officially ended. Shenandoah lowered the stainless banner - striking her colours - for the second time. The last military act of the American Civil War, and the very last official lowering of the Confederate flag.

Surrender of the CSS Shenandoah

Originally built for the British government as Sea King, Shenandoah sailed from England to intercept commerce bound from the US West Coast to the Far East and Latin America. Shenandoah single handedly decimated the Northern Union whaling fleet. On August 2 1865 Shenandoah while sailing for San Francisco to bombard the harbour, met a Liverpool ship, Barracouta, sailing out of San Francisco. Barracouta informed the crew of the Shenandoah of the war's end, some 4 months previous, presenting the crew newspapers as proof. Immediately Shenandoah struck her colours, a sign of surrender, and was decommissioned as a man-o-war after claiming 38 ships, many after the war was over. Her guns were stored in the hold and her hull repainted to resemble an ordinary merchant vessel. The ship then sailed to its unofficial home port, Liverpool, to surrender rather than surrender in a Northern Union port.

Liverpool Mercury 7th November 1865:

Considerable excitement was caused on "Change" yesterday morning by circulation of the report that the Confederate cruiser Shenandoah, of whose exploits amongst the American whalers in the North Pacific so much has been heard, was passed about 8 o'clock by the steamer Douglas at anchor at the bar, of Victoria Channel, apparently waiting for high water.

At anchor at the Mersey Bar, the pilot asked what nationality the ship was as they flew no flag. The pilot would not take the ship up the Mersey unless a flag was flying. The Confederate stainless banner was again raised and CCS Shenandoah sailed up the Mersey flying the flag. HMS Donegal took the last surrender of the American Civil War when the CSS Shenandoah under Captain Waddell surrendered in the River Mersey, between Toxteth and Tranmere, with Shenandoah striking her colours for the second time. A Royal Navy boarding party oversaw the last official lowering of the Confederate flag. The ship sailed 9,000 miles (14,500 km), via Cape Horn, to Liverpool to surrender, being hunted by Northern Union vessels along the way. She berthed in Herculaneum Dock after surrender. The British government turned her over to the United States government, after releasing the largely British and Australian crew - under protest from the USA who wanted to put them on trial.

Liverpool Mercury 9th November 1865:

Before leaving the vessel, however, they gave three lusty cheers, for Captain Waddell, their late commander. Captain Waddell, in feeling terms, acknowledged the compliment

Shenandoah had circumnavigated the world with hardly a scratch, yet when the ship was being taken to the USA after being handed over to the US government, her top masts were wrecked in a storm just out of Liverpool. She limped back to Liverpool and never sailed to America.
The Laird Rams

Laird-Ram-1.jpgHMS Wivern (Laird Ram) The ship is so advanced it looks modern. Notice the wooden sailing ships being painted in the background to give an idea of how advanced the turetted ships were.

Lincoln Threatens War on The UK

The Confederacy ordered from Lairds shipyard two armoured iron hulled, twin rotating turret, rams powered by steam-sail. The warships were advanced designs with the ability to ram and destroy wooden ships, hence the title rams. The ships were clandestinely built under cover of being destined for the Egyptian navy. These were the most advanced ships in the world and would have torn through the Northern Union fleet if let loose. The rotating turrets were a new development equipped with advanced rapid firing Armstrong guns. The rotating turrets enabled great flexibility when attacking enemy ships. These deep sea operating ships are not to be confused with the iron clad turetted monitors which were dedicated vessels for operating primarily in estuaries. One of the monitors capsized in deep water being so unstable.

Northern Union spy ring relayed to Washington the construction of the ships and pressure was put on the British government to seize the ships from Lairds. The fear of these ships was so great a diplomatic row ensued with Abraham Lincoln threatening to declare war on the UK if they were delivered.

With the UK having a huge naval fleet and a number of the advanced iron Warrier class ships complimented by the Laird rams, declaring war on the UK would seem a foolish act when the Northern Union was already engaged in a war with the Confederacy. The UK had reinforced Canada with troops with the giant Great Eastern requisitioned as a troop ship sailing from Liverpool. Russia did give the Northern Union assurances that if the UK recognised the Confederacy they would declare war on Britain. Russia had ships based San Francisco and New York. Delivering the rams to a French company may not be viewed as recognising the Confederacy, however it is how the Northern Union and Russia would interpret the transactions. Having the Russians potentially on his side may have been the reason why Lincoln was so aggressive to the United Kingdom.

The Most Advanced Ships in the World

The British designed and built the first full iron hull warship, HMS Warrior in 1860, which is now berthed in Portsmouth harbour. Napoleon referred to Warrier as "that long black snake in the English Channel". The Warrior was highly successful in preventing a war with France, which is probably a greater achievement than sinking ships in a war. [WWW]HMS Warrior

However the iron Laird Rams ordered by the Confederacy put the Warrior into instant obsolescence. The configuration had heavy impenetrable armour, two revolving armored turret guns, fore and aft, with quick firing Armstrong guns. The ship did not have to line up broadside against an enemy ship to fire, firing quickly at virtually any angle. The rams were a quantum leap in design and technology. They were vessels to be feared. The rams could steam into a wooden hulled blue water fleet and decimate it. In harbours and rivers, they could just simply ram ironclad ships below the waterline if need be. British navy ships were primarily designed by the Admiralty, in Admiralty shipyards. The Laird Rams were designed by men who were supposed to only know merchant vessel design. The arrogant Admiralty designers were given a quick lesson in advanced warship design.

The Iron Rams Seized by the British Government

Via the Northern Union spy network in Liverpool, the US ambassador was constantly informing the British authorities of the ships. The ships were being built for a French company on behalf of the Egyptian government and given Egyptian names - the company was fake. A country like Egypt at the time ordering such advanced and expensive vessels was highly unlikely. The British government needed positive proof of the Northern Union allegations. Lairds would minimally cooperate with the British government - none of their business according to Lairds as the orders were legitimate. The rams were clearly warships and not disguised as merchantmen as was the CSS Alabama. The British government seized the rams. The Royal Navy wanted the ships, however the Admiralty shunned them because it wasn't one of their designs. Initially the rams were not taken into the Royal Navy. Lairds put in a claim for the ships to the British government for the seized partially built ships. Only then did the government pay up and take the ships into the Royal Navy.

The ships were clandestinely named, El Tousson and El Monassir. The names on commission were to be CSS Mississippi and CSS North Carolina. The rams were eventually incorporated into the Royal Navy as HMS Wivern and HMS Scorpion. The ships were so advanced HMS Wivern was used until well into the 20th century being scrapped in 1922. A part of the money Lairds received for the rams from the British government, went into the Confederate Treasury, and helped to pay for CSS Shenandoah.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 02:19 PM   #23
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Wow, I love this thread......thanks for sharing.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #24
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Fantastic thread!
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Old October 30th, 2011, 05:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openlyJane View Post
The world's first -ever train, departed from Lime Street station on its journey to Manchester ( also the first ever train fatality - when the M.P who was officially opening the railway, accidentally fell in front of the departing train).
Actually it departed from Crown Street in Liverpool and it was there that Huskisson was killed by the locomotive. Lime Street Station was opened much later and only after the cut was made from Edge Hill. The stone that built St. Anne's RC church on Overbury Street was taken from that railway cut. Also, that Parrish was claimed to be the largest, in population, Catholic Parrish in Europe. Due in part to the many tenement blocks within the Parrish boundary.

The Albert Dock was to it's day what containerization is to the present. Before Albert ships would tie up along a quay and off-load their cargo's onto the quay. Whereupon longshoremen would then load them aboard flatbed horse drawn lorries for transfer to land-side warehouses. This left the cargo's open to much pilferage and theft. Albert Dock enabled ships to come alongside the quay but have their cargo's hoisted directly from the hold up into the warehouse above. These "hoist bays" can be seen in you excellent pictures, alas they are now glazed. Of course, some of those cargo's were landed on the quay and transported directly to the merchant and there had to be a surface for the shore tenders to tie the ship and as well.

The Kilt is of Celtic origin and was/is worn by most branches of the race. The Irish kilt is as old as the Scots version but is usually of a solid color as opposed to a clan identifying tartan/plaid worn by the Scots. The kilt is worn in Ireland, Scotland, Brittany and along the Biscay shore. The bagpipes are also Celtic and are believed to have come out of India when the Celtic tribes migrated from that region. It was once said, about religion in Liverpool, that the city had "the best catholics and protestants but nary a Christian could be found".

For what it's worth; The two versions of how Liverpool came by it's name and emblem, the Lyver Bird that I have heard are 1.) The bird is a cormorant which was trained to fish and return to land like an homing pigeon with it's catch. The bird would have a string tied loosely around it's neck so as to impede it's swallowing it's catch. When it returned it was an easy matter to physically regurgitate the, still whole, catch for human consumption. The version on how it came by it's name is 2.) The original "Pool" which became the "Old Dock" was near the present Hilton Hotel, police headquarters and Paradise Street. Liverpool being built on pink colored sandstone and it's river being alluvial the pool gave off a dark reddish-brown color, not unlike the color of liver. Is either tale plausible.

Last edited by EuxTex; October 30th, 2011 at 07:00 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 05:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openlyJane
The world's first -ever train, departed from Lime Street station on its journey to Manchester ( also the first ever train fatality - when the M.P who was officially opening the railway, accidentally fell in front of the departing train).
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuxTex View Post
Actually it departed from Crown Street in Liverpool and it was there that Huskisson was killed by the locomotive. Lime Street Station was opened much later and only after the cut was made from Edge Hill. The stone that built St. Anne's RC church on Overbury Street was taken from that railway cut.
And here I thought the Stockton to Darlington railway was the first public railway line in 1825, and that the first ever train was in Wales, near Merthyr Tydfil created by this guy.

The Liverpool to Manchester railway opened in 1830.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 05:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaxion View Post
And here I thought the Stockton to Darlington railway was the first public railway line in 1825, and that the first ever train was in Wales, near Merthyr Tydfil created by this guy.

The Liverpool to Manchester railway opened in 1830.
Should be addressed to Jane. I never claimed either, just that the train left from Crown Street in Liverpool. See also; http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/local.../history.shtml

Last edited by EuxTex; October 30th, 2011 at 05:56 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 05:48 PM   #28
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The Liverpool to Manchester railway was the world's first intercity passenger railway: I stand corrected.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #29
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By the way, thanks Dan, for this excellent thread. I am thoroughly enjoying it.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #30
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Aye, loving the thread so far
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Old October 30th, 2011, 08:31 PM   #31
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Thanks for all the information. I never really knew the background on the Kilt and bagpipes. Now I know why seemingly different groups all use them.

Not sure how those old quays would have worked. I would think they'd have had to have been built way out into the river, which would have been difficult in and of itself, but they then would also have had to to deal with the currents of the Mersey as the tide goes in and out which are quite strong. Regardless, the wet docks of the current Quay system is quite ingenious and without a doubt Liverpool would never have become the city it became without them. It would be interesting to know who exactly thought of the idea, but it was probably a number of people over time.

I'll work on this thread some more in a bit. I am still only half way through Liverpool and I'd at least like to get to Manchester today. :-)
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Old October 30th, 2011, 10:46 PM   #32
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After seeing the area where the Captain of the Titanic lived Paul drove me across North Liverpool, heading to a park.

Most of the residences we drove by looked like this:

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100_1453 by 600West218, on Flickr

The paint was sometimes peeling on the homes were obviously not as well maintained as in other areas so clearly this was a low income area. Still, I didn’t see anything that was abandoned or completely delapidated as you would see in most any US city. To a certain extent, of course, building built from brick can hide poverty as they generally don’t simply collapse from lack of maintenance as the wood structures of America do.

Next, we arrived at the gate of a large park. Unfortunately I don’t recall its name - hopefully others can tell us that.

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Of course, it wouldn’t be Liverpool without the Liver birds :-)

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Not the most welcoming expression I’ve ever seen.

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ok, here is another little fetish I developed while in England - I loved the bright flourescent patterns on their police and emergency vehicles. They all have them and they are all different patterns and colors. Sometimes they even go on rather fancy cars such as BMWs. There will be plenty more pictures of these.

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Here is the most sophisticated hand washing machine I’ve ever seen. This one machine wets your hands, drops soap on them, then rinses them, and finally drys them. Is there nothing the English won’t think of?

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This is a very old tree, with branches that are so far flung they now have to be propped up with poles, that trials were held under. If my memory serves, I think they actually carried out hangings here too. In any event, not only do English buildings have lots of character, but their trees do as well!

Also, not how it is split down the middle, as if it were hit there by lightning. So English trees are as tenacious survivers as its people are.

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Nice homes along the edge in the park. Clearly the owners were well off - not only were the homes quite nice but they always had two or three very upscale cars in the driveway. Note the nice leaded windows:

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For a while I was wondering what all the “E II R” initials were on things like the above mail box and on police cars. It was explained to me that it stands for “Elizabeth Reigns”. Ok, a nice touch, but what happens when she no longer reigns and someone else is king or queen, is every mail box in the country going to be replaced? That question simply elicited a shrug.

Next we hit a couple places associated with the Beatles. Not exactly what I had come to Liverpool for but once you are in the neighborhood what the heck...

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100_1483 by 600West218, on Flickr

After I had been in England a few days something dawned on me. English cities were remarkably free of graffiti (and litter). The above scribbling by Beatles fans at the gate of the group home where John Lennon was raised is one of the few exceptions.

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One of the boyhood homes of John Lennon.

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Seeing as most all buildings in England were brick or stone and hence limited in their range of colors a touch of color was often added via things like colored doors. Though most weren’t as bright as these they were always a very nice touch.

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The church where I am told John Lennon and Paul McCartney first met at a social function. Its church yard also contains the grave of Elinor Rigby, of Beatles song fame.

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Next we visited this spot where many hundreds of years ago archers sharpened their arrows and practiced shooting at targets. The grooves in the stone come from repeated sharpening of arrows on it.

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Love those colors!

Next it was off to the south side of Liverpool, even further south than Aigsburth. We walked along the river Mersey and through some very affluent residential neighborhoods.

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A patriotic car.

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These homes were extremely well kept. I was told they were quite old but they were in such great condition that they could have been brand new for all I knew.

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There was a big and high see wall at the bottom of which was this “dry” land along the Mersey due to it being low tide. It was very tempting to try to go down and walk along the Mersey, but probably also very unwise and dangerous.

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Again, note the beautiful Victorian brickwork with a nice touch of color added by the door.

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Lawns, hedges and gardens were generally kept in absolutely immaculate condition. Note how even the house below, which is less upscale, keeps their small front yard in perfect shape.

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At that point Paul and I had a dinner ( a very nice one where I first saw something called “Yorkshire Pudding that isn’t actually pudding at all and was served by people whose accents were completely unintelligible to me - Paul had to translate) and he then dropped me off at the main road. Even though I was way to the south of the city center I decided to simply walk to the center - after all that is the best way to explore.

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There was block after block of row houses.

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A back alley.

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I love the chimneys. They definitely give a distinctive character to these homes.

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As you can see, lots and lots and lots and lots of bricks went into building things here. A good trivia question would be: are there more grains of sands in the Sahara or bricks in England? The answer isn’t obvious to me.

Next I went by a military reserve armory (similar to the National Guard armories here in the US I think).

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The recruiting slogans are almost identical to those used in the U.S. Not sure who is coping who.

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Continueing my walk towards the city center.

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An old building from 1887 now used as a church.

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This was interesting - a computer on the street by a bus stop where you could access various web sites of the City of Liverpool and do things like look for jobs or find out about city services. Never saw anything like that before. Note how it says “Council Services”, not city services or government services. All local governments in England seem to be referred to as “councils” in deference to their being run by an elected council.

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One thing that really surprised me was how rarely I saw “Fish and Chips” places. I had always thought that was the most common English food. It still may be but that is a matter of some dispute. Some say it still is the most common fast food, while others say it has been over taken by Indian curry. Still, fish and chips is apparently a take out type fast food and it is not often combined with Chinese resteraunts. So you largely choose between Indian curry and Chinese prepared fish and chips!!

This was a nursing home:

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A rare open area. Turns out I had walked into Toxteth, an inner city poor area somewhat famous from riots in the 1980s. Frankly, I only realized later what it was when I looked it up on the internet. When I was walking through it it didn’t seem all that poor (though there were more black people here) and not dangerous at all - at least by the standard of what we are used to in the U.S. In fact, all through my travels I walked through very dimly lit areas at night, sometimes towing a suitcase, and just assumed they were safe. Never had a problem or even felt unsafe. Either England is a very safe country with a low crime rate or I was just naive and lucky.

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Now that I was close to the city center I noticed a very interesting big building to my left (ie, towards the Mersey) so I went that way to investigate.

This wasn’t actually the building that caught my attention but one next to it.

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This is the spectacular old building. Turns out, it is the Cains brewery. You can even get tours of it at 4 pm if there is a group of 6 or more. As I was by myself I never got a tour :-(

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I love the decorative lattice work on the chimney.

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Sorry for the blurry picture but that is all I have of the actual pub that is part of the brewery. I went back there for a couple of evenings to hang out. Learned a lot about football (soccer) from them and also about the pub industry. Turns out that most all the pubs you see that look old and distinctive are neither old nor independent in most cases. They are chains of pubs simply built to look that way and that only sell the brands of beer that their owners market. That is rather annoying - how are you to know when you are seeing an authentically old pub?

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Later I took the train back to Aigburth, had a dinner and drinks with my host and that was the end of my second day in England.

Last edited by 600West218; October 30th, 2011 at 10:52 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 11:37 PM   #33
Wapper
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Again, nice pictures! Liverpool looks just like perfect to me. I like the architecture very much.
The English use a lot of bricks for their buildings, as you remarked. This is probably because there are no stones available in the region to build houses with, but there is enough clay to make bricks. The same applies to large parts of northern Europe (the European plain).

The fluo patterns and fluo vests are indeed very British. In fact, I think they use it so much that it doesn't stand out anymore.
Those cameras are really creepy. I never understood why the people accept them.
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Old October 30th, 2011, 11:54 PM   #34
Paul D
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Quote:
Next, we arrived at the gate of a large park. Unfortunately I don’t recall its name
Calderstones Park,keep them coming Dan.

I can't believe you walked into the City Centre after I dropped you off,it's great too see what you got up to after I left you though.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 12:47 AM   #35
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The tree in Calderstones Park that you pictured, is reputed to be 1000 years old. It is known as The Allerton Oak

The figure at the gate of the park is one of the statues representing the 'Four Seasons'; that particular one is representative of Winter.


Toxteth is not a, necessarily, intimidating area: most crime is gang or drug related.

The handsome houses that you pictured off Aigburth Rd were in the victorian gated estates of Cressington & Grassendale
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Old October 31st, 2011, 12:52 AM   #36
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Wapper: Those cameras are really creepy. I never understood why the people accept them.


To be honest, people do not even notice them. And if they do - they are re-assuring ( certainly for me!) - because they pick up on anti-social behaviour - and are successfully used to bring criminals and trouble-makers to book.

If you do not go about breaking the law, or causing trouble, then you can forget that they are there, and you have nothing to fear. ( that's my perspective, anyway!)
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Old October 31st, 2011, 10:58 AM   #37
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Excellent thread and very interesting to read the observations

About postboxes, they don't get changed with a new monarch, you can find many 'G R' postboxes from the Georges and the occasional 'V R' example dating back to Victoria's reign.

Detached homes are the minority in England as you suspected, making up around 25% of the total housing stock, probably a bit less than that in the northern cities, more in small towns and rural areas. Terraced and semi-detached houses are about 55% with flats/apartments making up the other 20%.

Brick is most common across the most populated areas of England, you will find stone construction the more common method in other parts such as West Wales and The Cotswolds with white rendered houses being quite common in rural parts of Cornwall or Scotland.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 02:58 PM   #38
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Thanks for all the comments and information. One of the great things about the thread is I get to learn still more about England from all your input - and that is one of the main purposes of travel, to learn.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 03:02 PM   #39
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"Detached homes are the minority in England as you suspected, making up around 25% of the total housing stock, probably a bit less than that in the northern cities, more in small towns and rural areas. Terraced and semi-detached houses are about 55% with flats/apartments making up the other 20%."

Thanks for these numbers. I'd have thought less based on my observations but I have to keep in mind that I only saw a very small part of England, the urbanized north, and that part may not be reprensentative of England as a whole. I probably need 3 or 4 more trips to different parts of the country before I can begin to generalize, and maybe not even then. One big mistake of travelers is to generalize based on very limited and skewed travelers.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 04:18 PM   #40
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Fantastic thread, and some great Liverpool streetscape shots. It would do some of the Liverpool forumers well to repost some of these images in the "Best Present Streetscape" thread over on the City Talk forums, with 600West's permission of course

Can't wait to see how you got on in Manchester!
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