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Old October 31st, 2011, 07:15 PM   #41
LondonFox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
About postboxes, they don't get changed with a new monarch, you can find many 'G R' postboxes from the Georges and the occasional 'V R' example dating back to Victoria's reign.

Interestingly, if you ever go to the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar... every single red post box there is either GIIR or VIIR... they don't have any EIIR ones... or that many anyway.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 07:31 PM   #42
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Anyone can repost these pictures - I have no problem with that.

Manchester required more walking than Liverpool, I think. And it was easier to get lost because there weren't obvious skyline markers that could give you a point of reference.

Also, most of my pictures there are of the city center, the Quays, and the south of the city. But no worries, there will be lots of them!
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Old October 31st, 2011, 07:39 PM   #43
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Manchester is that bit bigger and in Liverpool the waterfront is quite useful for navigation I find. The best Manchester building for navigating by imo is the Beetham Tower which is visible from many places around the centre.

Anyway, look forward to seeing more
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Old November 1st, 2011, 01:53 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
Manchester is that bit bigger and in Liverpool the waterfront is quite useful for navigation I find. The best Manchester building for navigating by imo is the Beetham Tower which is visible from many places around the centre.

Anyway, look forward to seeing more
It has such an impact on the city that you'd say it's 300 meters tall. Great photos
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Old November 1st, 2011, 02:56 AM   #45
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My third day in Liverpool was spent in the area of the docks exploring some of the museums there. First I walked around the docks themselves a bit:

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The Victorians seem to have been into building castle tower look alikes. I like them.

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Notice you can see the Anglican Cathederal in the bacground. The central area of Liverpool is fairly compact, and very walkable. That is one of the things I liked most about it.

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I think you can notice here what I mentioned when discussing the Tobacco Warehouse. The Albert Docks have been sand blasted so clean that they look new. Personally, I prefer the aged looks of the Tobacco Warehouse. But I guess most potential buyers of Real Estate must prefer it to look new and cleaner, otherwise they’d leave it looking like the T.W.

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Some new structures built to blend in. Note the brickwork on the far building. It looks just the same as that on the Albert Docks even though this clearly is a very recently built building.

Could it really be that the Albert Docks was only built 5 years ago and the Liverpool tourism board just SAYS it is 150 years old to draw in suckers like me? Well, I guess I”ll take their word for it that it really is old but if ever they use the T.W. for something I hope they leave the exterior as it is.

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An interesting contraption. I road it one night. Sadly I couldn’t get good pictures though the glass because it was raining.

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Costa is a coffee shop similar to Starbucks. The bottom level of the docks was populated mainly by souvenir shops and expensive eateries.

This is also the entrance to some exhibit on the Beatles which I didn’t visit.

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I believe this is a sports arena/convention center

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The Mersey that I saw was always brown in color and rough with big waves and strong currents. I was glad I wasn’t in it. The area across the river is called the Wirral and is interesting in its own right. I visited it the following day.

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Leaving the cranes does give it a touch of authenticity.

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Finally I had made it around the entire dock and was at the entrance of the Slavery and Maritime Museums which are housed in the Albert Docks.

The Slavery museum was about 1 full floor and was quite good in giving the history of the slave trade. They were surprisingly frank and honest about Liverpools key role in the slave trade. In fact, I found that Liverpudlians over all have come to terms with it in a way that Americans never have with experience with slavery. When I would say to people that Liverpool has spectacular old buildings they would say, “yes, Liverpool made lots of money off the slave trade so they were able to build really nice buildings”. By contrast, I never meet Americans who will admit to the role slavery played in making the U.S. rich.

Unfortunately the museum as quite dark so I didn’t get any decent pictures.

Sadly the same goes for the Maritime Museum, which is much larger than the slavery museum and occupies over two floors. It has lots of really good exhibits and very nice models of ships. It also has really old film of people in Liverpool waiting for word on the fate of their relatives after the news came out that the Titanic sank. Very moving.

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This is a replica of a steam engine from one of the early steamships and one of the only pictures I could get.

The central Quay of the Albert Dock

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As you can see, the Quays are fully functional and house some good size ships.

Next to the Maritime Museum they had the home of the dock keeper that was set up to look as it would have during the blitz. In fact, one of the biggest things I learned on this trip was that Liverpool and other northern cities were bombed extensively during the war. In the US we are generally led to believe that the blitz was largely confined to London.

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I sort of doubt that people would really have had pictures of Churchill on their walls, but who knows?

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Outside the Museum they had some ships in drydocks:

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The same system that allows the wet docks to work also allows the dry docks to work. The only difference being that for the wet docks they close the gates at high tide to keep the water in and with the dry docks they close it at low tide to keep the water out.

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Back to the Three Graces.

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This was inside the new Liverpool Museum which is all about Liverpool and its history. Even though it was only partially open it was an excellent Museum that should definitely be visited.

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Note the flag is the flag of England not of the U.K. I saw that fairly often, the English rather than the national flag being flown. Doing something like that would probably be illegal in the US, but regardless, you never see it.

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Next I headed over to the Three Graces themselves and went in the Port of Liverpool building which mainly seems to be offices of financial firms these days.
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You could actually walk up the stairs to the various floors around the rotunda. They had very nice stain glass windows that seem to represent what were the British territories at that time. I saw some names I hadn’t seen in a long time:

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British Honduras? What is that, Belize?

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Aden?!?!?! No idea what that is.

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Now, if you’ve been paying attention you will note that there is no window for the Falkland Islands. I think Argentina should use this omission to argue that the islands really are theirs after all :-) In any event, I hope you can see that is a beautiful building and merits being explored if you are in the area.

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I like the contrast of old and new.

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A restaurant named after a ship

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Wandering back into the town center I was able to see the Queen Victoria monument that was previously obscured by the Irish parade.

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I still had some daylight left so I wanted about in town. Soon I wound up back at the town hall and can’t resist posting more pictures of it.

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Now, notice they fly the Union Jack!!

Can’t get enough of this building either:

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Remember how the other day I mentioned standing in front of the town hall and not knowing which way to go? Well, this time instead of walking straight down the street that the town hall faces I walked up the street (ie, away from the Mersey) it is on.

And here is what I went by

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I love that term “Assurance”

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This seemed to be a no longer used rail station converted into offices.

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Inside

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Ok, I have to be a little honest here. At this point Liverpool was actually starting to annoy me. I had a belt pouch for my camera and whenever I would snap a few pictures I would put the camera away thinking I wouldn’t take anymore pictures. Then I would go another block or around a corner and there would be some other spectacular building that I knew I had to take a picture of so out the camera came. Even though I was just wandering around blindly not knowing where I was going it just seemed the spectacle of one building after another would never end.

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Note the statues. It occurs to me, not only did this city once have a lot of money, but they clearly wanted to put it in everyones face exactly how much money they had. Showoffs!

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Also note, this building is English, not British.

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Fortunately for me, daylight soon faded away and I was put out of my building overload misery.

The ferris wheel did look nice at night though.

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Old November 1st, 2011, 03:04 AM   #46
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Glad you enjoyed your visit to northern England! Fantastic photos of liverpool (it really is a very photogenic city :p ) can't wait to see the rest of your photos of the other cities and places you visited, it's always nice to see a visitors perspective of England/the uk
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Old November 1st, 2011, 03:05 AM   #47
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Ha! A city that annoys because it has too many grand buildings! No rest for the curious.

I was thinking that some of the furnishings in the WWII home looked like my grandmothers. (showing my age, perhaps?) And then, the I see the guardian angel picture over the bed. My grandmother had the exact same one. When I was little and frightened to sleep alone in her guest room, she would point to the picture over the bed and remind me that the guardian angel was watching over me. A nice memory--thanks!
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Old November 1st, 2011, 03:22 AM   #48
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"I was thinking that some of the furnishings in the WWII home looked like my grandmothers. (showing my age, perhaps?)"

Yes, I thought they looked similar to US homes of that era too.

Further, current English homes only really look different from the outside. Once you went inside someones home, you noted they looked almost exactly the same as an American home.

In Manchester the home where I stayed looked earily similar, inside and out, to the apartment where I grew up in Upstate New York.

For all they squable and bicker Americans and Brits clearly have far more in common than they do differences. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, as they say.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 03:44 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
"I was thinking that some of the furnishings in the WWII home looked like my grandmothers. (showing my age, perhaps?)"

Yes, I thought they looked similar to US homes of that era too.

Further, current English homes only really look different from the outside. Once you went inside someones home, you noted they looked almost exactly the same as an American home.

In Manchester the home where I stayed looked earily similar, inside and out, to the apartment where I grew up in Upstate New York.

For all they squable and bicker Americans and Brits clearly have far more in common than they do differences. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, as they say.
Like hell it doesn't! It fell on the other side of the Pond!
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:57 AM   #50
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An engaging photothread, and good to hear a personal, unbias perspective. Quite refreshing.

The grand, architectural streetscapes in many of the photos you took of Liverpool remind me of Piccadilly and Mayfair in London, which as most may be aware, are very affluent areas.

As for the interior of homes being similar in both England and America, in my experience there exists major similarities with all western countries. I am surprised however, how you found some things to be distinctly unlike America, like the bright, fluro attire that emergency services use. It's worn so they can stand out, and with England's sometimes foggy and overcast weather, it's really a necessity. It also exists in many other countries.

I'm also very interested in industrial heritage. One of the reasons Britian saw the proliferation of terrace houses, was to accommodate the masses who were coming from the country-side to work in the factories of towns and cities. This affected the lifestyle and culture of the people ever since, from their family ties, to the cuisine, recreation etc.

Great work. Looking forward to more.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 01:11 PM   #51
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Once again some brilliant photos, Liverpool really is a very pretty city.

Looking forward to seeing more :')
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Old November 1st, 2011, 01:31 PM   #52
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Absolutely amazing photo report of your trip around Liverpool, you’ve captured so much of the character of the place and it looks fantastic. Glad you had such a great time and managed to see so much, loving the level of detail so far, can’t wait to see more of your trip
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Old November 1st, 2011, 01:52 PM   #53
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I can assure you that the Albert Dock is old. it was built in 1846 and designed by Jesse Hartley. It was the first building in Britain to be built using cast iron, brick & stone - with no wooden structures at all - -making it the world's first non-combustible warehouse.

Furthermore, it & its associated buildings represent Britain's largest single collection of Grade 1 listed buildings..

I ,recently, took some interior shots of both the slavery and the maritime museum - check out my thread!
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Old November 1st, 2011, 06:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
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Detached homes are the minority in England as you suspected, making up around 25% of the total housing stock, probably a bit less than that in the northern cities, more in small towns and rural areas. Terraced and semi-detached houses are about 55% with flats/apartments making up the other 20%.

Brick is most common across the most populated areas of England, you will find stone construction the more common method in other parts such as West Wales and The Cotswolds with white rendered houses being quite common in rural parts of Cornwall or Scotland.
I just checked the 2000 US Census. Couldn't find the 2010 info, but things couldn't have changed that much.

60.3% - detached
5.6% - attached
9.1% - apartment buildings with 2-4 units
17.3 - apartment buildings with 5 or more units
7.6% - mobile homes

I am surprised to see the attached-home figure so low. Maybe it is because I am used to areas with lots of attached homes, such as Baltimore & Philadelphia. The US government gives a tax break to homeowners. This encourages Americans to purchase the most expensive house they can, which often leads to detached homes. Also, our government backs loans that often favor detached houses. These loans, such as FHA, make purchasing a detached home much easier. However, I think our attachment to detached homes is mostly cultural. With mobile homes being 7.6%, it indicates that Americans want a detached home even when on a tight budget.

Does the UK subsidize home buying/ownership? Are mobile homes as popular in the UK as in the US (especially in rural areas).
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Old November 1st, 2011, 06:30 PM   #55
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'other' which includes mobile homes, houseboats etc is less than 1% in the UK I think, a few retired people move to mobile homes and there are a handful of gypsies/travellers but it's not common.

Mortgage interest was tax deductible in the 80s and 90s but there hasn't been any subsidy since then.

Planning policy here doesn't usually allow for loads of big plots on undeveloped land so attached homes are often used to save space.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 07:45 PM   #56
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Thanks for the numbers Expat.

They don't surprise me at all. Yes, Philly, Baltimore and other east coast cities are very much the exception. Even in NY, once you get west of Schnectady you almost never see attached homes though I guess you could consider town houses an exception.

I think the main factor is land. England just doesn't have land. Their population density is very high.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 07:46 PM   #57
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Jane, I know they are really that old :-)

I just wish they had been allowed to look a little more aged. Look how spectacularly the Town Hall and the Tobacco Warehouse show their age!!
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:05 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218
I think the main factor is land. England just doesn't have land. Their population density is very high.
Especially south of around York/Preston. Beyond that the very north of England and most of Scotland is much less dense. In the southern half of the UK only some parts of mid/north Wales and some of the Southwest peninsula are significantly less densely populated.

Of course there would physically be space for everybody to live on US-sized plots but you would create a sea of sprawl from the south coast to north of Manchester and Leeds.

Interesting that more Americans than Brits live in apartments, though we do have one of the lowest figures in Europe, only Ireland and Norway have fewer apartment-dwellers than the UK i think.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:07 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
Thanks for the numbers Expat.

They don't surprise me at all. Yes, Philly, Baltimore and other east coast cities are very much the exception. Even in NY, once you get west of Schnectady you almost never see attached homes though I guess you could consider town houses an exception.

I think the main factor is land. England just doesn't have land. Their population density is very high.
I think that tradition and customs are also important. Not all parts of Europe are as dense as England, yet you will see lots of attached houses (I expect more than in the USA). Cities and even villages in Europe have always been very dense, even when the overall population density wasn't that high.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:16 PM   #60
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I think that tradition and customs are also important. Not all parts of Europe are as dense as England, yet you will see lots of attached houses (I expect more than in the USA). Cities and even villages in Europe have always been very dense, even when the overall population density wasn't that high.
This is true. From the train I would some times see a block of row (terrace) houses in the middle of a rural area surrounded by fields

Also note that the very rich houses that I showed where the White Star people lived were also attached.
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