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Old December 5th, 2016, 03:03 PM   #2041
00Zy99
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This map fails to show the suburban/radial car lines. Even the ones operated by the TTC as extensions of the city system.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 05:04 PM   #2042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Personally I would put them on the map but not with the same prominence as subway except for the underground portion of Eglinton. I think they should handle the surface lines like Paris does with its trams, by including them but with a finer line style compared to heavy lines for metro and rer.
we should also add the UP express in a different line weight of course than subway and LRT/streetcar. I think LRT in its own R.O.W should have a different line weight than a regular LRT, like the spadina LRT.
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Old December 11th, 2016, 12:19 PM   #2043
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TTC to complete Presto switch by 2018
Transit agency clarifies timeline for when it will stop accepting older forms of payment
Toronto Star Excerpt
Dec. 8, 2016

The TTC’s full conversion to the Presto fare card system will take longer than the transit agency had previously told the public.

At a meeting of the Metrolinx board of directors on Thursday, Robert Hollis, Metrolinx vice-president for Presto, said he expected that it could be “well into 2018” before Toronto’s transit agency will be able to phase out all other forms of payment in favour of the fare card.

The TTC had previously told the media and said in public documents that tickets, tokens, and passes would be phased out in 2017. A TTC spokesperson told the Star that the mixed messaging was the result of confusion about when the agency would stop selling older forms of payment, as opposed to when it would stop accepting them.

Exactly when in 2018 the switch will be completed isn’t clear.

“There will be a point I would say sometime later next year when we’re in a position where we start thinking about withdrawing certain fare media, but we haven’t had that discussion or landed any particular dates yet,” Hollis said.

“I’d say somewhere later next year that that starts to begin. And then well into 2018 could be a point where much of the legacy fare media has been retired.”

More : https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...h-by-2018.html
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Old January 11th, 2017, 11:26 PM   #2044
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"TTC: A Tour of Vaughan's Metropolitan Centre Station"

Source: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/12/...centre-station

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/12/...centre-station













station concourse:



what it will look like:





what it will look like:



BRT stop under construction



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Old January 14th, 2017, 04:31 AM   #2045
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Transit advocates lodge complaint over controversial Scarborough subway debate
Misleading briefing note provided by staff misaligned Scarborough’s transit future, TTCriders says.
Toronto Star Excerpt
Jan. 11, 2017

Amid concerns the Scarborough subway project is delayed, a group of transit advocates and local residents have complained to the head of the TTC over misleading information provided to council in the midst of a debate last summer.

On Wednesday, Scarborough Transit Action, an offshoot of the advocacy group TTCriders, filed a complaint addressed to CEO Andy Byford after a Star story outlined how a briefing note produced by the TTC during an earlier debate wrongly cast doubt on the light-rail alternative.

“As it stands now, Toronto council has committed billions toward a one-stop subway extension in Scarborough without the benefit of an objective and complete comparison of costs, delivery dates and funding commitments from higher levels of government for the seven-stop LRT option,” the complaint reads.

“At a time when there is increasingly limited funding allocated to basic services in Toronto, public confidence that council was presented with all the facts before deciding where to place a significant amount of our shared resources, needs to be restored.”

The complaint follows confirmation Tuesday that an anticipated report on a proposed alignment for the subway, a document critical to moving the project forward, would not be ready next week as planned. The report was originally set to be released in December.

That news renewed concern the pitch by Mayor John Tory and allies — and supported by staff — for a one-stop subway that could be in service in 2025 and cost no more than $3.2 billion was too optimistic.

More : https://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...ay-debate.html
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Old January 14th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #2046
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Why not just do the RT as it was originally planned-a rapid streetcar? Just re-lay the tracks on the existing guideway, put up wires, and away you go.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #2047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Why not just do the RT as it was originally planned-a rapid streetcar? Just re-lay the tracks on the existing guideway, put up wires, and away you go.
1) Politics Scarborough Councillors want a subway to fulfill their political legacies
2) The constituents don't understand that rebuilding the RT as a seven stop LRT with the right design criteria (keep the alignment and station design grade separated) would essentially give Scarborough a Light Metro.
3) it is not as simple as relaying track and stringing overhead. Stations will need to be rebuilt to low platform and all elevated ROWs will need to be strengthened or rebuilt because the LRTs are much heavier than the ICTS trains. You basically have to demolish the whole thing and rebuild from scratch.

But you know another day another problem in transit planning in Toronto.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #2048
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Why is that the proposed subway extension from Kennedy to STC doesn't have any stops in between. Assuming the route will run through Eglinton Av, Danforth Rd and McCowan Rd, they can plan intermediate stops at Brimley & Englinton and McCowan and Lawrence.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 07:53 PM   #2049
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Quote:
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Why is that the proposed subway extension from Kennedy to STC doesn't have any stops in between. Assuming the route will run through Eglinton Av, Danforth Rd and McCowan Rd, they can plan intermediate stops at Brimley & Englinton and McCowan and Lawrence.
A compromised plan to allow for the current mayor, John Tory's, campaign flagship proposal called Smartracks to coexist with the promise to Scarborough Counselors to give them a subway in exchange for their support for him. If they built the 3 intermediate stops on the Scarborough subway it would cost 1 billion more and evenly distribute the very thin ridership potential to both Smartracks and the subway making both of them nonviable investments. The peak ridership demand for the subway would be squarely in the "recommend LRT" zone which would kill the subway dream. By making it an "express subway" you have a defined role and raison d'etre for the subway to exist. Also they get to reinvest the 1 billion saved for not building the intermediate stations into an extension of the Crosstown LRT deeper into Scarborough. There is a whole lot of other stuff going on and the plans are changing all the time. I don't think I can explain the entire kafkaesque process of transit planning in Toronto in a digestible forum post.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 08:55 PM   #2050
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Scarborough RT should just be modernized: new trains purchased (same as newest Vancouver MarkIII model), stations upgraded and it would be just fine.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 09:25 PM   #2051
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Scarborough RT should just be modernized: new trains purchased (same as newest Vancouver MarkIII model), stations upgraded and it would be just fine.
The RT was a prototype line for ICTS (Vancouver's sky train technology) so the design and alignment standards can not accommodate the larger and heavier Mark III trains. The underground curve between Ellesmere and Midland Stations will need to be rebuilt as well as the curve east of Kennedy Station.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 08:37 AM   #2052
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Are you implying it's better to spend $3.2 billion {and rising} on a one-stop subway because you don't want to spend $300 million on an upgrade for the RT?
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Old January 15th, 2017, 04:06 PM   #2053
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It seems that it would cost a LOT more than that to upgrade the RT. I'm suprised at the viaducts, though. I would have thought that they could at least support CLRVs and PCCs, so why not the new cars?
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Old January 15th, 2017, 06:46 PM   #2054
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Are you implying it's better to spend $3.2 billion {and rising} on a one-stop subway because you don't want to spend $300 million on an upgrade for the RT?
No I'm just stating the facts as is. Also, it's 360 million in 2006 dollars, inflation will push it to beyond 450 million. The TTC did not do a detailed analysis of the refurbish the SRT option so the actual cost may be higher just like with the subway. Also people in Toronto do not like the SRT that much as the microlifting and steerable trucks make a really loud and bumpy ride. Any extension to Malvern will most likely have to be tunneled as people know about the RT's noise problems and would want noise to be managed. The maintenance cost of ICTS is much higher than LRT. Of course it is still the cheapest short term option that gets the job done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
It seems that it would cost a LOT more than that to upgrade the RT. I'm suprised at the viaducts, though. I would have thought that they could at least support CLRVs and PCCs, so why not the new cars?
The viaducts where originally designed to handle ALRVs but when the province came in to ham fist ICTS into the project one of the selling points was the Mark I trains are much lighter than the ALRVs due to their "space age" fiberglass construction (also the ALRVs are designed to be as low maintenance as possible so were very overbuilt) the viaduct was redesigned to cut costs this also allowed it's promoters to make the point that ICTS can compete with LRT in terms of initial cost.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 08:45 PM   #2055
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In my opinion it's still cheaper to upgrade the RT and leave it as a separate line.

They might wanna rebuild the Kennedy station eventually (make another platform on the same level as the Line 2 platform is), so the RT would go underground to that station - the transfer would be super easy and fast. But that is just an option which I see a good thing, but not the necessity.
Another thing is to upgrade the alignments, as mentioned above.
All this could be finished within 2 years maximum, so closure of the entire RT line would be acceptable somehow.

Plus, in the meantime the line could be extended to White Haven / Sheppard Ave area, so it will connect with future Sheppard LRT.
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Old January 16th, 2017, 06:39 PM   #2056
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There are legitimate capacity issues with the line that a simple rebuild can't handle. Even if you reinforce the elevated portion, rebuild the underpass to a wider turn radii, and modernize the stations, you are looking at a project that is hitting maximum capacity near day 1. Growth has been restricted on the line for years as it is limited to 60m long cars that can only have frequencies of something like every 3 or 4 minutes due to turn around times at the end of the line. If you start lengthening platforms to increase capacity, costs go up again. Demand on the line is 8,000-10,000 PPHD, capacity is something like 6,000 ising ICTS and existing infrastructure.

The original plan was to essentially entirely rebuild the SRT for LRT infrastructure - longer platforms, higher capacity, etc. this worked to a certain extent - however still only provided limit ridership growth potential, and still forced a transfer which increased travel times.

Plus the transfer at Kennedy is absolute crap right now, you have to walk up 4 flights of stairs.

The subway will turn a 20 minute journey today into one that takes 9 minutes too - and 90% of people going past Kennedy are going to Scarborough Town Centre anyway. The subway is expected to push demand on the corridor north of 10,000 PPHD. The subway also has the benefit of not having to close the line for several years. the SRT can operate until the day the subway opens.

Talk to anybody in Scarborough who uses the line semi frequently and they will disavow the thing. The SRT is essentially universally disliked.

There is a lot of politics behind the subway extension - but the thing isn't as boneheaded as a lot of people believe. The original LRT replacement had a lot of politics in its initial planning as well.. If you go back to the early 2000's the TTC's plan was to eventually replace the SRT with a subway extension, but David Miller added its replacement into his all LRT Transit City plan.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; January 16th, 2017 at 06:47 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2017, 12:40 AM   #2057
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for a city like toronto which seems to not have such an expanded or "strong" (no offence to any lads from toronto) transport system, is it not better to try to save as much money as possible and expand the network rather than do over the top artistic stations which really dont add much ? it appears to be a case of all huff and no puff , sure its nice but i think a city like toronto needs a bit more radically expansion rather than showpiece terminals. i have been to toronto/gta several times but it really is bothering to see such a massive city have such an underbuilt system, and then have it fragmented by so many different companies and high prices



it looks beautiful though



a while back the yrt system built million dollar stations in a separate line, massive glass arches with lots of finesse, but only 3-4 people stand in one at the same time, its ridiculous, there are curved beems that dont even hold anything (like seen in the front of the photo)....


these


http://transit.toronto.on.ca/regional/2111.shtml
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Last edited by SoroushPersepolisi; January 20th, 2017 at 12:46 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2017, 05:52 AM   #2058
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Toronto is constantly criticized for bare bones utilitarian buildings with little thought to beauty or visual interest. The City is finally listening so I'm not about to criticize them for approving designs that are a marked improvement over what normally passes muster.

You're right that the transit system is currently a mess and massively under built but steps are being taken to rectify the situation. It will be 8-10 years till we catch up. I'd rather we endure a few more years of pain if it means we end up with an attractive system. We have to look at this thing for the next 30-40 years.
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Old January 24th, 2017, 09:04 AM   #2059
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Old January 24th, 2017, 11:48 PM   #2060
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Quote:
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It seems that it would cost a LOT more than that to upgrade the RT. I'm suprised at the viaducts, though. I would have thought that they could at least support CLRVs and PCCs, so why not the new cars?
Vancouver has to strengthen the original viaducts and upgrade power supply before they could run the bigger Mark II trainsets
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