daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 9th, 2006, 11:29 PM   #241
monkeyronin
Mơמkƹ͛ƴ∆ґơɲiɲ
 
monkeyronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,762
Likes (Received): 876

monkeyronin no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 9th, 2006, 11:30 PM   #242
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

I think the provincial government is contributing to the farecard. I think there needs to be more integration between the different systems (MT, YRT, TTC, etc.), and this would help.
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 08:14 AM   #243
harsh1802
MAVerick
 
harsh1802's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,718
Likes (Received): 102


Lovely.
__________________
Harsh's Photo Thread / Bharadwaj's mini South India Trip

Hyderabad Cityscapes

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins
harsh1802 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 08:21 AM   #244
Derryn-Hinch
That's life
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 89
Likes (Received): 0

The whole subway system looks like a relic from the 50s.It's blandness matches the Toronto skyline.
__________________
That's life

I'm Derryn Hinch
Derryn-Hinch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 08:23 AM   #245
p5archit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Toronto, Vienna, Amsterdam
Posts: 533
Likes (Received): 1

We refer to Hydro as electricity- probably because we get about 5-10% of our energy from there..makes sense doesn't it (sarcastic).

That said, there have been quite a few ideas about running transit down those so-called corridors and they are and possibly will be of more benifit later, that is when the corridors towers come down and we bury the lines- then we can talk transit and development.

p5
__________________
..unc!
p5archit no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 08:31 AM   #246
thryve
같같같같같
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,344
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derryn-Hinch
The whole subway system looks like a relic from the 50s.It's blandness matches the Toronto skyline.
Thank God... it's called timelessness.
thryve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 08:47 AM   #247
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

I don't agree with it being a relic. What you see as bland, I see as a dependable and reliable service that trades flashiness for functionality.
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 08:54 AM   #248
salvius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,488
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derryn-Hinch
The whole subway system looks like a relic from the 50s.It's blandness matches the Toronto skyline.
Oh brother... That's two posts where I've found you spewing nonsense. I guess we can be like Melbourne and not have one.
salvius no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 10:08 PM   #249
Gil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,120
Likes (Received): 38

The thing about the GTA Farecard that everyone is touting about is that it will make transferring between agencies seamless. I don't see it that way the way they have the card set up. You basically load up some money onto your Farecard and the money is automatically deducted off your card when you swipe it as you board a bus. It will credit you with a transfer if you need it so that when you swipe your card again on another connecting bus you won't get billed a second fare.

This is the current setip with tickets and cash fares, you pay your fare/ticket, get a transfer if you need one, and carry on your way. Then only difference is that you won't need separate tickets for each agency. If you always pay by cash then what's the point unless they offer a discounted rate for using the card. The system is set up to reduce the use of paper tickets and transfers. However, those paying by cash and require transfers will still require the paper variety.

In the GTA, with the exception of the TTC (which does not accept neighbouring transfers at face value, or at all) and DRT (which does for the moment connects only with the TTC - see above problem), all NEIGHBOURING transit agencies accept each other's transfers. (There are a few instances where non-neighbouring agencies meet and transfers are not allowed: Hamilton-Oakville, Mississauga-YRT, but negotiations could fix that.)

So why fix a system that isn't broken? Adding these farecards would just add another level of fare media. Having tickets I feel is a greater peace of mind for me than worrying about losing my Farecard with all the money I'd have stored on it and having someone else use it. Having all your eggs in one basket doesn't seem wise to me. This is the case with NYC's MTA farecards. They are valid on both buses and subways for all the MTA's jurisdictions, but I am alway conscious of where my farecard is, because once you lose it, it's pretty much gone.

Granted, the farecards will facilitate passenger tracking to monitor transit usage, and cut down on transit disputes (maybe not, if the NYC farecard is any indication), some sort of compromise must be reached so that there is in fact a wider benefit to both the riding public and the agencies which would administer the system.
Gil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 10:18 PM   #250
degnaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 158
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil
In the GTA, with the exception of the TTC (which does not accept neighbouring transfers at face value, or at all) and DRT (which does for the moment connects only with the TTC - see above problem), all NEIGHBOURING transit agencies accept each other's transfers. (There are a few instances where non-neighbouring agencies meet and transfers are not allowed: Hamilton-Oakville, Mississauga-YRT, but negotiations could fix that.)
They do? I always thought if someone lived in Brampton and worked in Richmond Hill, or vise versa, they would have to buy two monthly passes, but apparently not... Ive never lived in toronto, so I wouldn't know, but there was nothing about it on the transit agencies' websites.
degnaw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 10:36 PM   #251
degnaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 158
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by p5archit
We refer to Hydro as electricity- probably because we get about 5-10% of our energy from there..makes sense doesn't it (sarcastic).
um... its actually 70%...

Back on topic, the hydro corridors have elevated power lines anyways, so is there anything hindering a rail line through it? or are people afraid of getting shocked? of course, the southernmost hydro corridor in toronto proper runs along finch, which is probably too north for a subway line, but the corridor continues to Mississauga city center, so it has some potential.
degnaw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 11:11 PM   #252
Gil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,120
Likes (Received): 38

Off on a hydro tangent...

Quote:
Originally Posted by p5archit
We refer to Hydro as electricity- probably because we get about 5-10% of our energy from there..makes sense doesn't it (sarcastic).

That said, there have been quite a few ideas about running transit down those so-called corridors and they are and possibly will be of more benifit later, that is when the corridors towers come down and we bury the lines- then we can talk transit and development.

p5
Degnaw, hydro as a term for electricity is a Canadianism, Americans refer to them (hydro lines) as power lines.

These high-voltage hydro corridors are in open areas for obvious safety reason (you wouldn't want kids climbing them, or things such as tree branches getting caught in them), aw well as some uncertain safety reasons, namely the electro-magnetic field the lines generate. There are camps on both sides of the debate on whether or not the EMF's are a health hazard. As no clear concensus can be reached the status quo of limiting development within the corridors remains. The concern also stretches to placing surface transit in these corridors as the vehicle operators would face prolonged exposure.

As for burying the lines, the issue of the EMF's comes up again. Since the effects are uncertain, how deep is safe enough to mitigate any possible effects? That aside, the insulation required to bury high-voltage lines, the heat generated from the lines, and the cost of essentially duplicating the network (as these lines need to remain active while their underground replacements are being built) are quite prohibitive. In some instances, the land beneath these corridors is already occupied by natural gas lines, further complicating issues.

Underground corridors of this magnitude do exist, but they are located in largely rural areas or underwater. We're talking about doing this in an urban environment. The only feasible means of burying high-voltage lines is for the voltage to be stepped down or reduced to a safe level. This however would require that there be several times as many lines all carrying lower voltage. Some of these corridors carry dozens of lines, each one requiring itself dozens of lines of reduced voltage to replace it. Soon you'll be faced with burying hundreds of these lines. Which all of a sudden doesn't seem quite as feasible.
Gil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006, 11:31 PM   #253
Gil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,120
Likes (Received): 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by degnaw
They do? I always thought if someone lived in Brampton and worked in Richmond Hill, or vise versa, they would have to buy two monthly passes, but apparently not... Ive never lived in toronto, so I wouldn't know, but there was nothing about it on the transit agencies' websites.
There is a weekly GTA pass which allows travellers unlimited access to TTC, Brampton, Mississauga, and York Region Transit. The person living in Brampton could get one of these passes and use it to freely travel between their home and Richmond Hill.

Monthly passes are a bit trickier. Up until July when monthly passes were recently introduced (in reaction to a federal tax credit on monthly passes), weekly passes were only available from several GTA agencies.

If you were going to travel into another jurisdiction, you would simply show your (Mississauga, for example) weekly pass to the driver on the Brampton bus, who would then issue you a transfer if you needed it. Of course the pass wouldn't work on the return trip. However, many suburban agencies have instituted timed transfers, meaning that if you could complete your return trip before your transfer expired (1.5 - 2 hours depending on the agency), you'd able to make it back to your home jurisdiction to use your pass. If you needed to travel on to a third jurisdiction you would simply exchange the transfer from the previous one for one from the current one.

However, back to your scenario, for someone travelling between Brampton and Richmond Hill, local transit would not be the best solution. GO Transit, which is the regional commuter agency operates routes connecting the two towns. Discounts (50 cent fares in most cases for those travelling to or from a train station) are available on local transit as a complimentary service. All that is needed is a valid GO Transit ticket or pass.
Gil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006, 02:49 AM   #254
elkram
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 337
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
functionality.
Dependable? Depends on how you regard functionality. Do your ears function well enough after riding that city's metro? How's the whiplash to your neck at stops? Are you the type to become embaressed from being thrown into the nearby passenger when the train halts? Not a pleasant legacy, Toronto.

Wheels squealing daftly even on the slightest of bends, noisiness ricocheting off no ballast underground; nothing learnt about how to quiet the squealing brakes when it came to freshly-commissioned trains a few years ago, the overall objective being to lurch the whole friggin unit into an abrupt stop.

I wish that city would just wake up -- with all that din of a tumbling you'd think it would've by now . . . .

For me functionality was first triumphed by London's Circle Line C stock fleet manufactured in the late 1960s. Its errr pleasant functionality outmatched even our fleets' here.

Cheers,
Chris

Last edited by elkram; August 11th, 2006 at 02:55 AM.
elkram no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006, 03:37 AM   #255
degnaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 158
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkram
Dependable? Depends on how you regard functionality. Do your ears function well enough after riding that city's metro? How's the whiplash to your neck at stops? Are you the type to become embaressed from being thrown into the nearby passenger when the train halts? Not a pleasant legacy, Toronto.

Wheels squealing daftly even on the slightest of bends, noisiness ricocheting off no ballast underground; nothing learnt about how to quiet the squealing brakes when it came to freshly-commissioned trains a few years ago, the overall objective being to lurch the whole friggin unit into an abrupt stop.
um, when I last took the metro (which was about three years ago) I dont remember having any of the above "symptoms", and from watching some more recent videos of it, it dosent seem too particularly loud or jerky to me, although you're probably just comparing it to the rubber-tired montreal metro (which ive never seen)
degnaw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006, 04:25 AM   #256
elkram
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 337
Likes (Received): 4

One knows lousy service when riding it -- it's no rocket science.

It's like a couple of evenings on a long intra-suburban bus ride here a couple of evenings ago. Driver flailing the passengers all over the place inside the facsimile of a city bus here, often hitting 50MPH on an old 30MPH winding road with utility poles edging the roadway (made me friggin' shudder), yet still all the passengers both sheepishly thanked and bade the driver good evening (regional habit here for passenger to alight from the front door).

Cheers,
Chris
elkram no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006, 04:43 AM   #257
kashyap3
Right Wing-ed
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batcave
Posts: 310
Likes (Received): 0

buddy, Toronto has the best subway in Canada, on the contrary to what you may think

Montreal's subway is worn down piece of blue crap running down the rusty, horriby planned underground tunnels

have you looked at the size to toronto, and how much of it the subway actually covers?
it covers very little of the city, yet it does such an effective job in reducing the major gridlock problem in the GTA
kashyap3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006, 08:35 AM   #258
York Transit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by kashyap3
buddy, Toronto has the best subway in Canada, on the contrary to what you may think

Montreal's subway is worn down piece of blue crap running down the rusty, horriby planned underground tunnels

have you looked at the size to toronto, and how much of it the subway actually covers?
it covers very little of the city, yet it does such an effective job in reducing the major gridlock problem in the GTA
I just came back from a Montreal vacation. The metro is really loud and uncomfortable.

The suspensions on the old MR-63 trains, run on the green line, are seriously falling apart. The area near Lionel Groulx is the worst, I've never shaken/vibrated or seen some many people jiggle like jello on a train before. Go ride for yourself

The newer trains aren't that bad though, but they're still loud.
York Transit no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006, 12:16 PM   #259
allurban
All Urban
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 4,348
Likes (Received): 6

KL introduced the "Touch n Go" card which is a RFID smartcard (light contact required).

All of the LRT stations, KTM, monorail, various car parks, toll booths, and theme parks use the Touch N Go card for admission.

It may not be perfect, since you still have to go through the turnstiles...and there is no system of discounting....

but having the "Touch n Go" is a huge convenience and time saver.

The simple reason is that you can move through the station/toll gates faster...and in stations you dont have to deal with the TVMs, which do not accept more than one currency note (if they are working at all).

So I think that the Smartcard will provide some benefit even if it is minor at first. Some of the costs can also be absorbed by private investment...do what they do in Hong Kong, where the octopus card can be used at various stores and restaurants, and can be reloaded at the local 7-11

Hmmm..I also wonder...if the GTA smartcard may end up as just a cash card...could they expand on the existing dEXit system (direct-debit keychain tag)

Cheers, m
allurban no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006, 01:25 PM   #260
e-strider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
I think the provincial government is contributing to the farecard. I think there needs to be more integration between the different systems (MT, YRT, TTC, etc.), and this would help.
Just like what we have over here in Singapore, all modes of transport are integrated into one mode of payment, which is the Ez-Link (Smart Card System). Even when you transfer from bus to train, Train to LRT (light Rail - Peoples Mover System) it will deduct and give the rebates accondingly. Over here, payments are charged by the distance that you travel. Example, when you board the bus, you tap the card once and the Ez-link will deduct the maximum fare. When you reach your destination, you tap again whn you alight and the machine will calculate and deposit the remaining amount back to your card. It works over here and from what you can see, Everyone here have a Ez-link card with them and it's getting more popular as there are more places which accept this smartcard system other than the transport system.
e-strider no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
canada, ontario, toronto

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium