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Old August 29th, 2006, 08:39 AM   #281
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Old August 30th, 2006, 06:36 AM   #282
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Ive been told by the Transit Toronto people that there is a lot of side-side shaking and vibration.

Anyone have any information or experience riding the peopel mover?

I wont get to ride it until december, unfortunately.

Cheers, m
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Old August 30th, 2006, 06:43 AM   #283
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toronto has a lot of ravines and river valleys...some oriented north-south, and some oriented east-west

So the roads often go up and down whereas the subway stays pretty level...but can be above or underground as needed.

Bloor-Danforth line, for example, is "above" ground between Old Mill and Jane (the Humber River Valley), between High Park and Dundas West (dunno the valley name), and between Castle Frank and Broadview (the Don River Valley)

At other points it is reasonably "at grade" (west of Islington, between Runnymede and High Park, Victoria Park to Warden) or under ground.

Cheers, m
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Old August 30th, 2006, 07:12 AM   #284
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Is that new?
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Old August 30th, 2006, 08:33 AM   #285
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It opened this year. It looks really nice, the stations not ceaped out. The track looks neat. What technology does it use?
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Old August 30th, 2006, 09:15 AM   #286
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Operating since April 2006, I believe.

Cheers, m
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Old August 31st, 2006, 12:05 AM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
What is that bus? it doesnt match the livery of ttc (red and white), mississauga (orange and white), GO (green-ish), brampton, york, etc transit systems

Last edited by degnaw; August 31st, 2006 at 12:13 AM.
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Old August 31st, 2006, 12:44 AM   #288
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I think it is just an airport (GTAA) bus.
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Old August 31st, 2006, 01:12 AM   #289
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it opened on July 6, 2006
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Old August 31st, 2006, 01:50 AM   #290
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The blue bus does the shuttle runs where the People Mover does not go, linking Terminal 2 to the other two terminals, cargo terminals, infield terminal, administration building, plus the on-street stops along the internal roads to pick up walk-in traffic.
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Old August 31st, 2006, 04:23 AM   #291
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How is it powered? It looks like it is drawn by a cable... how does it work? Are the trains permanently attached to the cable?

Someone please enlighten me!
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Old August 31st, 2006, 05:01 AM   #292
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Yes I believe they are drawn by cable but have no idea on how it all works.
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Old August 31st, 2006, 12:28 PM   #293
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I believe it is a GTAA 'Link' bus. If you look at the bus window closely I think you can see the shadow of the luggage racks. I think the bus is a newer model Orion low-floor model.

As for the GTAA rail 'Link'...

two completely separate trains on two completely separate tracks pulled by two independent cable systems.

Doppelmayer Cable Car designed it.

Cheers, m
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Old August 31st, 2006, 09:07 PM   #294
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That thing shakes incredibly! Dear God, if I hadn't sat down I'd be somewhere on that window...
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Old September 3rd, 2006, 03:43 AM   #295
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Subway deal in for rough ride: critic:
Council still must vote on untendered contract for cars

James Cowan
National Post
2 September 2006

Toronto city council is unlikely to "rubber stamp" a $674-million untendered contract for new subway cars, an opponent of the deal said yesterday.

Transit commissioners unanimously approved the contract with Bombardier this week, but Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong said the issue will not receive the same easy ride when council debates it this month.

"Councillors are a lot more critical of the deal than the commission is," Mr. Minnan-Wong said, noting a motion calling for the contract to be opened to competitive bids came within a few votes of passing at July's council meeting.

"If that vote is any indication, it is not going to be a cakewalk," Mr. Minnan-Wong said.

The decision to negotiate a deal with Bombardier for 234 subway cars without accepting competing bids sparked months of heated debate. Rick Ducharme, the TTC's former chief general manager, cited the decision to "sole source" as a reason for his resignation this summer.

Mr. Minnan-Wong said some of his colleagues are concerned about Mr. Ducharme's allegations that TTC chairman Howard Moscoe meddled in the contract process while others simply object to a multi-million deal going untendered.

"There's a lot of money on the table," Mr. Minnan-Wong said. "It's $700-million, which means the potential savings could be $10-million, $50-million, some people have even suggested $100-million."

Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker, a transit commissioner, conceded many of his fellow politicians were worried at first about the untendered contract.

"I think, at the face of it, a lot of councillors said, 'Let's put it out to public tender. I don't want to get ripped off,' " Mr. De Baeremaeker said.

A review of Bombardier's final bid by a pair of independent consultants should alleviate their concerns, he said.

An analysis prepared by Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. concluded that the price was "fair and reasonable by industry standards." The consultants also say there is "no guarantee" of a better price if the process were opened to competition.

"Bombardier's overall price is already in the public domain, so all firms bidding will start with that as a price," they argued.

Mr. De Baeremaeker predicted councillors will vote "two-to-one" for the deal, thanks to the assurances offered by the consultants' reports, along with an endorsement from TTC staff.

"Those are very powerful reports," he said. "What Bombardier did was give us a really good product at a really good price."

According to TTC staff, the Canadian manufacturer's final bid of $2.1-million per car means the city will pay $45-million less than budgeted.

Mr. De Baeremaeker accused right-wing councillors of exploiting the debate over the contract to attack Mayor David Miller as November's municipal election approaches.

"They are doing everything they can to make this guy look bad," the councillor said.

But Mr. Minnan-Wong suggested the Mayor has endorsed the Bombardier deal for his own political reasons.

"I think he has made some commitments to the CAW to try and win this contract. He relies on them for a great deal of support," the councillor said.

The subway cars will be manufactured in Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant. They will be on Toronto tracks by 2009.
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Old October 23rd, 2006, 11:29 AM   #296
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Just wanted to remind people about the GTA transit forum beginning November 3.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/transitforum/ has more information about it

Cheers, m
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Old October 28th, 2006, 08:52 AM   #297
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http://transitforum.ca/

Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban View Post
Just wanted to remind people about the GTA transit forum beginning November 3.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/transitforum/ has more information about it
more information can also be found at http://transitforum.ca/

Cheers, m
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Old October 29th, 2006, 06:28 AM   #298
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The commuter blues
Can public transit ever truly compete with the car?
JEFF GRAY
28 October 2006
The Globe and Mail

WHY IT MATTERS

Traffic congestion costs commuters time, businesses money, and hurts the environment. And if you think it's bad now, the city's traffic problems are set to dramatically worsen.

In the 416 area code alone, the city expects at least half a million new residents by 2021; hundreds of thousands more are expected to settle in the 905. If most of them drive to work, the road network — already at capacity, for the most part — could grind to a halt. Meanwhile, widening roads attracts more cars, city traffic planners say, merely creating a wider traffic jam.

And it's not just a headache for drivers.

A recent study suggested traffic jams cost the city's economy close to $1.8-billion a year in lost productivity. And a survey for the Board of Trade of 100 Toronto-area chief executive officers said they were more likely to cite public transit and transportation as a top priority for municipal politicians — even more pressing than lowering taxes or fighting crime.

Downsview subway station, where Mayor David Miller chose to tell the media about his public-transit policies this past week, has almost no workplaces or homes within walking distance. It is, for now, a subway to nowhere.

“We're standing at the end of the subway line,” Mr. Miller told a dozen shivering reporters, as cars whizzed by on Sheppard Avenue West. “But this isn't where Toronto ends.”

His point: The province has pegged the Spadina subway line for a $2-billion expansion north to York University and beyond, but vast swaths of the Toronto suburbs and the 905 belt will still remain lengthy bus rides away from anything resembling rapid transit.

Toronto's official plan calls for an end to “car dependency” and says the expected new growth in population must be accommodated on public transit, with higher-density land-use planning.

But that would require massive amounts of new money for the Toronto Transit Commission — money the city doesn't have. Excluding the proposed Spadina extension, the cash now coming from the federal and provincial governments, the transit agency says, is only enough to maintain the current system for the next few years — not expand it.

“You can do that [add population], but if you don't add more transit, you're going to make our riders feel like sardines,” said Michael Roche, the TTC's chief financial officer. “Many already do.”

The recession and the funding cuts of the 1990s, which forced the transit agency to hike fares faster than inflation, sent ridership into a downward spiral. But now, with the economy growing, ridership is shooting up well ahead of TTC predictions. The last three years have seen the TTC raise fares twice. But it has also frozen its monthly passes, effectively making them cheaper, and begun allowing multiple people to use the same pass.

In addition to replacing hundreds of aging buses, the TTC has ordered 100 extra new ones in an effort to attract riders. The new buses are meant to make service more frequent on forlorn suburban routes outside of rush hour. But attracting more riders also means more demands on the service.

Transit systems in the sprawling 905 belt around Toronto, which are dwarfed by the TTC, have started modest expansions, such as York Region's Viva rapid bus system. GO Transit continues to grow each year, its new parking lots filling up almost as soon as they are paved. It remains to be seen what effect the province's new regional transportation authority will have. It's meant to co-ordinate transit systems and establish a common high-tech fare-collection system.

WHAT THE CITY SHOULD DO

Mr. Miller's proposed plan for public transit assumes that senior levels of government won't shower Toronto with billions more in cash for public transit, on top of the hundreds of millions in gas-tax funds. So he wants to do something much cheaper than billion-dollar subways, with the potential to give far more people, especially those who live far from the subway line, the option of leaving their cars its home.

Based on existing TTC plans, his scheme involves building special lanes, separated from traffic, for buses and streetcars or newer, larger light-rail vehicles, on Yonge Street north of Finch, Kingston Road, Don Mills Road, on the waterfront and elsewhere. (The savings are attractive: Light-rail can cost as little as one-tenth the price of a subway line, and is enjoying a boom in cities across North America.)

The mayor's projects would resemble the right-of-way lanes now being built on St. Clair Avenue, where the idea has proven controversial; some businesses and residents fought it tooth and nail, arguing that it would put a chokehold on traffic flow.

Both of Mr. Miller's main mayoral opponents, Jane Pitfield and Stephen LeDrew, insist subways are still the answer. Ms. Pitfield, who announced her transportation platform amid the construction on St. Clair, wants the city to build two kilometres every year, which she says would cost $100-million a kilometre — way below most projections, which put the price at more than $200-million a kilometre. She argues she would be better able than Mr. Miller to persuade other governments to help pay for it.

Ideally, says long-time transit consultant Edward Levy, a senior partner at the BA Consulting Group, the city should be building both light-rail systems and new subways, if it somehow found the money.

In some places, he says, going underground is necessary. Along Eglinton Avenue, for example, a light-rail line wouldn't work; the street crosses the centre of the city, where the street is narrower but densities are higher. “You have to go underground [for a distance of] about six kilometres, at least,” Mr. Levy says. “And it ain't cheap.”

But in suburban areas like Vaughan, he argues, the promised high-density development is unlikely to materialize in the quantity required to justify an expensive underground train.

On other streets, light-rail or buses in their own rights-of-way are smart ways to spread rapid transit around the city, Mr. Levy says, agreeing with Mr. Miller's plan. But subways needn't be so expensive either, he said. He blames TTC inefficiencies and a molasses-like environmental assessment process, as well as bickering between levels of government, for the sluggishness of Toronto's ability to build new transit lines.

And he agrees with an idea put forward by Ms. Pitfield: The TTC should have citizen representatives — preferably with some business expertise — on the commission, which is now made up solely of city councillors. Or better yet, he argues, empower a regional agency with its own sources of revenue to build transit across the greater Toronto area. This would amount to a souped-up version of the province's new Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, which Mr. Levy says is for now “just a shell” with little power.

Meanwhile, no politician — and certainly no leading mayoral contender — is going so far as to suggest looking at the other side of the transportation ledger, and consider measures aimed directly at drivers, such as tolls. Mr. Miller, who was roundly criticized for musing about tolls in the 2003 election, now routinely dismisses any suggestion of charging drivers.

Mr. Levy believes drivers are going to have to accept some changes in order to keep the streets moving as the city grows. But at the end of the day, he says, public transit will always have to co-exist with the car: “Let's face it, auto culture is not going to go away.”

CASE STUDY

Blood on the tracks: The battle over St. Clair

If Mayor David Miller wants a firsthand look at how neighbourhoods across the city might respond to his public transit plans, he only has to head to Ward 21, St. Paul's, where the furor over dedicated streetcar lanes is the No. 1 election issue.

There, St. Clair Avenue has been turned into a giant, traffic-snarling ditch as crews build two right-of-way lanes, separated from traffic, in a controversial project that is still opposed by a vocal group of residents and businesses and was even delayed by a court challenge.

Championing the project is incumbent councillor Joe Mihevc, a TTC commissioner and key ally of Mr. Miller. Mr. Mihevc's most prominent challenger, former Toronto mayor John Sewell, opposes the lanes, saying the new street will be hostile to pedestrians and arguing there are better ways to boost public transit.

A main street torn up by construction is clearly not what Mr. Mihevc wants to be talking about on doorsteps in the middle of an election campaign. “I foresaw this, right, that this was going to be construction hell, and that I was going to wear it,” Mr. Mihevc says. “My counterparts, colleagues in this campaign are basically making hay of it.”

He says the new system, which he describes as “almost an above-ground subway,” will dramatically increase the reliability of streetcars, since they will no longer get stuck in traffic. That will mean fewer long waits and a time savings, on average, of 15 per cent of a rider's trip, he said.

The new lanes, Mr. Mihevc asserted, are needed to keep pace with higher-density development along St. Clair, which he says would otherwise mean gridlock.

Mr. Sewell couldn't disagree more. His campaign is getting a lift from members of Save Our St. Clair, an anti-right-of-way group that fought the project in court. He says the current plan reduces the size of sidewalks and reduces parking (things Mr. Mihevc disputes). Mr. Sewell instead proposes that cars should only be banned from the streetcar lanes, and prevented from making left turns, during rush hour.

“You can't cross the street,” he says of the new St. Clair. To build the dedicated lanes, “you have to widen the road space, narrow the sidewalk, get rid of the parking.”

In Mr. Mihevc's view, nothing short of the future of public transit in Toronto is at stake in his ward. If he loses the election over the St. Clair battle, he thinks councillors in other wards where the lanes are proposed — many of which are in the suburbs — may lose their nerve.

“I think I'm going to win,” he said recently. “But if I lose, then you tell me: Who's going to have the guts? Politicians by nature are not gutsy people.”

TWO CITIES, TWO SOLUTIONS

London: In 2003, Mayor Ken Livingstone brought in a controversial £8 ($17) “congestion charge” for motorists entering the central city in an effort to clear up traffic paralysis in the British capital. The government credits the move with reducing congestion by 30 per cent. At the same time, London brought in hundreds of new buses that could now actually move on its streets. A public-private partnership is also overhauling some of the city's subway lines.

Madrid:

The Spanish capital, with a population of 3 million, at the centre of a region with 5.8 million people, has become the wonder of the public-transit world for building 120 kilometres of subway — or almost twice the length of Toronto's current total tracks — in just 10 years, at a fraction of the cost estimated for subways here. TTC officials and transit experts on this side of the Atlantic have been scratching their heads and are studying how the Spaniards did it.
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Old October 29th, 2006, 08:17 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer J. Simpson View Post
Scarborough RT - 6.4 km, 6 stations, partly elevated and partly at grade (around Ellesmere and Lawrence East stations)
Why was this line built, instead of the subway line simply being extended along the same route? As it is now passengers have to make a change from one to the other, which they wouldn't have to if the subway had been extended.
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Old October 29th, 2006, 11:27 AM   #300
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Quote:
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Why was this line built, instead of the subway line simply being extended along the same route? As it is now passengers have to make a change from one to the other, which they wouldn't have to if the subway had been extended.
It's a long, sad, yet interesting story.

Basically, the subway reached their terminals at the relative end of what was then Metropolitan Toronto, in the early 1980s.

The east end terminus was at Kennedy Rd., and the west end terminus was at Kipling Ave. TTC had planned for a light rail network using light rail technology based on the CLRV design (the streetcars running through downtown Toronto). The service would extend north and east into Scarborough from Kennedy Station, and north and west into Etobicoke from Kipling Station.

The provincial government seized on this as an opportunity to demonstrate a new railway technology developed by a government-linked corporation, UTDC. The new technology was higher cost and TTC said no...so the Provincial Government offered to fully fund the line if it were converted from Streetcar technology to the new LIM technology.

Check out the whole story here at

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5107.shtml

There are many different views on the use of this technology...the TTC never used it fully, by keeping drivers on the trains. It also cost more, and some say it prevented further expansion of the system into Scarborough. The west end LRT never came into being either.

Now the SRT is breaking down (gone by 2015). A committee examining the issue made a recommendation to adopt the modern ART Mark II technology, again rejecting the CLRV option, and rejecting the idea of a subway to Scarborough Town Centre.

As for not extending the subway further...well, in 1980 it didnt seem necessary to build a subway further east or west...as for today, subways are now being viewed by some as being too costly for Toronto, which has no capital funding and no operations subsidy from higher levels of government.

Cheers, m

ps. The LIM technology in its original form was later sold to Vancouver and Detroit. The modern form, now designed by Bombardier, is being used as an ICTS in Vancouver and Kuala Lumpur and will also be used for ICTS by a city in Korea. It also operates in the Aerotrain at JFK Airport in New York, and the future link between Beijing's Airport and Railway station.

You can get the information about the system from Bombardier's website.mya
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