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Old May 8th, 2007, 05:52 PM   #381
Electrify
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
I think you aren't speaking from experience, and suffer from a bit of grass-is-greener syndrome. No...the NY subway system does not run outside of the city proper. And while it may be extensive...as in how much track and how many stations there are, it is not more efficient necessarily in terms of using it. It's actually easier in many cases to get from point A to B on the TTC. Not only that, but TTC trains run more frequently. The MTA is a state-run "authority", rather than a municipally run transit system like the TTC.

Add to that, the dismal state of affairs (economically and physically) on the NY subway system, and there's no way in hell I would trade it for the TTC.





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Wouldn't mind their fares though:

Individual fares: $2 (not including reduced fare bonuses)
7 day pass: $24 ($12 on a reduced fare subscription)
30 day pass: $76 ($38 on a reduced fare subscription)

If we had fares like that, no one in this city would buy a car
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 03:13 AM   #382
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Calculate the exchange rate, and there aint much difference, even with the Cdn dollar quite high against the American these days. A TTC unlimited and transferable Metropass on an annual purchase basis will cost you $89...the 30-day MTA pass will cost you $84 Cdn based on todays's exchange rate. I really don't see where $5 a month difference is going to have the dramatic effect you seem to think it has.

The trick to the TTC's success, is it's choice rider numbers, based mostly on safe, efficient and accessable service to most riders, who have access to a car, but choose to ride the TTC, in a city where it is still quite practical to own and operate a car. In NYC, owning and operating a car is not practical, even for the rich, so it makes Toronto's ridership percapita compared to NYC's even more impressive, given the circumstances.





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Old May 11th, 2007, 03:18 PM   #383
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a lot would subscribe to the pass, it'd be $50 CAD a month!
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Old May 13th, 2007, 07:10 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better View Post
Just curious what you think of the trains in New York City and London?
New York and London have much better connectivity. These systems are much more extensive. Toronto's system is very very small for a city of its size.

As far as trains go, New York's are as good or worse. London's look great, but are less spatious than Toronto's.

As far as stations go, New York's are equally horrific or worse. London's stations are a mixed bag. Most are dirty, grimy, falling apart, but their Victorian architecture redeems it to a large extent. The Jubilee Line is fabulous. Great design, efficient, modern, and interesting.

I am curious why you chose these 2 cities as a benchmark?


KGB: you said that New York's subway is a hell of alot worse.

So what? Does ours have to look like crap just because their's does? And making an assertion that a city is boring because its subway is boring is illogical. Subways don't determine a city's character, but are often a reflection of an influential group within society that impose their views and esthetics on a city. You can accuse me of labelling this group's aesthetic stodgy bland and boring. You can not accuse me of having this view of Toronto. Toronto is very vibrant despite this group's influence.

You are going off on a tangent talking about gay pride, vibrancy, and diversity. Toronto is very vibrant. Who said it wasn't? We are talking about subways! If you are trying to argue that our subway stations aren't ugly, boring, bland, depressing, etc. you've got an uphill battle. Very efficient, but awful, dark, dingy, bland, boring, uninviting. I stand by that.

Last edited by isaidso; May 13th, 2007 at 07:50 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 06:03 AM   #385
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If the stations r as bad as u say, I'm surprised the system has such high ridership; u'd think the grime would put people off (I know it would me).
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Old May 15th, 2007, 08:27 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
If the stations r as bad as u say, I'm surprised the system has such high ridership; u'd think the grime would put people off (I know it would me).
it would, but the congestion tax keeps ridership up and increases it i'm sure...plus children are brought up to take the metro, not beg your parents for a ride. as was also said, the network is extensive and if you live in london, pretty efficient to use.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 09:09 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
If the stations r as bad as u say, I'm surprised the system has such high ridership; u'd think the grime would put people off (I know it would me).
What choice do we have? You might be willing to walk an hour and a half instead of a 15 minute subway ride to avoid an ugly station, but most people will put up with it. Not having experienced good design, alot of people don't even expect anything better.

There are no bus routes on subway routes except when the subway stops running, so that isn't an option either.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 11:15 AM   #388
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I suppose that at the time it was constructed, emphasis was on functionality rather than asthetics, no? Is that the case?
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Old May 16th, 2007, 10:31 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso
There are no bus routes on subway routes except when the subway stops running, so that isn't an option either.
Yes it is, there is just no reason to take them aside from really short distances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
If the stations r as bad as u say, I'm surprised the system has such high ridership; u'd think the grime would put people off (I know it would me).
Well, aside from the fact that isaidso is being overdramatic (boring? yes, but depressing? whatever), people just aren't that scared of a bit of dirt. Especially when its so much cheaper and more effiecient than other options.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:36 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtfreak View Post
I suppose that at the time it was constructed, emphasis was on functionality rather than asthetics, no? Is that the case?
They look pretty good.

Last edited by addisonwesley; May 17th, 2007 at 08:32 AM.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:54 PM   #391
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Having a functional system doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Putting in some nice panels, fixing the leaky ceilings, and a few more lights will brighten the atmosphere significantly.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 06:25 AM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyronin View Post
Yes it is, there is just no reason to take them aside from really short distances.
I know of a few people who use 97 yonge all the way down to Toronto....

why...convenience...get a seat, the bus comes to them directly, no need to go through the maze in the subway station....

one likes the view, and the other is claustrophobic.

Cheers, m
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Old May 18th, 2007, 10:02 AM   #393
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Yes, if buses go point-to-point quickly and efficiently, then it can definitely compete with rail and survive.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 05:56 AM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban View Post
I know of a few people who use 97 yonge all the way down to Toronto....

why...convenience...get a seat, the bus comes to them directly, no need to go through the maze in the subway station....

one likes the view, and the other is claustrophobic.

Cheers, m
What is the difference in travel times? It might be okay at non-peak times, but during rush hour? Yikes...
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Old May 19th, 2007, 06:40 AM   #395
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Quote:
And making an assertion that a city is boring because its subway is boring is illogical.

Well, YOU'RE the one making that assertion, in case you haven't realized that. What you fail to realize, and should pay more attention to...is comments like this one...
Quote:
Well, aside from the fact that isaidso is being overdramatic
...You are being so over-the-top ridiculous with your comments, and incorrect in the assertions as well, that people stop seeing any truth that "may" lie somewhere in your comments (benefit of the doubt here), and simply can't take ANYTHING you say seriously. I would really take a second look at your approach if you want to be taken seriously...I have serious critisisms of the city and it's transit, but could never get to the point of discusssing them with someone like you, because you can't put it any realistic perspective.



Quote:
You are going off on a tangent talking about gay pride, vibrancy, and diversity. Toronto is very vibrant. Who said it wasn't? We are talking about subways!

Well, uh...YOU are the one who went off on that tangent...not me. You are the one making this comment.....
Quote:
Like alot of Toronto, the subway cars are as bland as possible. It's the ultra conservative, stubbornly rigid, Scottish roots of this city at play.
I mean...could anybody characterize the city any less accurately????

Like I said...stop getting so silly about it and making ridiculous sweeping analogies regarding the city as a whole, and focus on the topic. You'll find yourself not having to defend these comments, and accusing people of what you are actually guilty of. Then perhaps, a sensible discussion about it may emerge.




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Old May 22nd, 2007, 07:22 AM   #396
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TTC vows to improve worker safety record
21 May 2007
The Globe and Mail

The death of a subway maintenance worker crushed in a tunnel accident last month was just the latest warning sign that the Toronto Transit Commission has a serious problem on its hands.

The number of TTC workers injured on the job has jumped significantly in the past four years – the agency's rate of 5.8 lost-time injuries per 100 employees in 2006 was higher than the average in the North American urban transit business (of 4.2). Worker-injury claims cost the TTC $9.2-million in 2006, up from $8.5-million in 2002.

The interim chief general manager of the TTC, Gary Webster, concedes the transit agency has a growing problem, but in the wake of last month's crash he said he is serious about fixing the TTC's “safety culture.”

Last month's collision, which killed 38-year-old Antonio Almeida, a father of two, was by no means the first alarm bell. In February of 2006, a high-profile carbon-monoxide poisoning incident in a tunnel that made eight workers and four firefighters seriously ill forced the TTC to realize it had a serious problem, demanding an improved worker safety environment, Mr. Webster said.

“We're very good at reacting to accidents and making sure that specific accidents don't happen again,” Mr. Webster said in an interview. “… It's like putting your finger in the dike. That hole will never come there again, but it's popping out somewhere else. And why is that?”

Comparing last month's crash to the 1995 Russell Hill subway accident, which killed three passengers and forced the TTC to undergo radical changes to improve passenger safety, Mr. Webster said what he called the “Almeida factor” was now spurring an overhaul of worker safety within the transit agency.

Small changes have already been made. While the early-morning collision is still under investigation, the working theory is that a scaffold-like piece of equipment, perhaps stowed improperly on a flatbed work car, snagged a cable on the subway-tunnel wall as Mr. Almeida drove the train in.

In the days after the crash, Mr. Webster said, the TTC ordered all other overnight maintenance crews using similar work cars to follow a detailed checklist procedure – already in place when work cars go out – when finishing up. Signed checklists stating that all equipment was properly secured before pulling away from the work site are now required to be submitted the next morning, he said.

The heightened vigilance about safety among the work crews that descend into the TTC's dark subway tunnels was clear, too, Mr. Webster said.

At least two maintenance crews refused to work right after the crash, citing unsafe conditions – as is their right under Ontario's labour laws.

In one case, a crew determined they did not have enough of the special slings used to secure equipment.In fact, the TTC boss recently issued an internal memo to all 10,000 employees, reminding them of their right to refuse work they believe to be unsafe.

Bob Kinnear, president of Local 113 of the Amalgamated Transit Union, said he supported management's recent moves and pledged to work with TTC leaders to improve safety.

Next month, TTC officials will present the transit agency's nine-member commission made up of city councillors with a report on safety initiatives that has been in the works since the carbon-monoxide incident. The report will also address concerns raised by the crash that killed Mr. Almeida.

The TTC has also drafted a plan to hire an external company to assist in a total overhaul of the TTC's safety programs, and in Mr. Webster's words, “hold our feet to the fire.”

Among the companies expected to bid is global giant DuPont, which has a division that specializes in safety.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 04:35 AM   #397
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More for the entire system, not just the subways :

Crimes on TTC jumped in 2006
Handheld devices become target

9 June 2007
The Globe and Mail

More crimes were committed on Toronto's public transportation system in 2006 than in any of the previous six years, according to a recently released TTC report.

Toronto Transit Commission figures show crime rates jumped sharply last year, in large part due to the increasing number of riders carrying handheld electronic devices, which make for appealing and easy targets.

In all, there were 3,415 Criminal Code offences on the TTC, substantially higher than the five-year average of 2,793. The number of crimes committed against customers increased to 1,601, compared with the five-year average of 1,194. The number of arrests on the TTC jumped from 830 in 2005 to 986 last year.

Over all, the transit crime rate was at its highest level since 2000, the earliest year for which data was readily available.

“I wouldn't call crime out of control on the system,” TTC chairman Adam Giambrone said. “We do have a slight increase. We've found in other areas that these increases sometimes are blips — we hope that's what it is.”

TTC Chief Special Constable Terry Andrews said a number of factors contributed to the spike, including several large fraud investigations. In one such case, an investigation involving Canadian and U.S. authorities busted up a multimillion-dollar counterfeit token ring.

But TTC constables have also seen a jump in the number of thefts, which they say is directly related to the increase in cellphones, music players and other handheld electronic devices that commuters carry.

“These are attractive targets,” Special Constable Andrews said, “not only on the TTC, but we've also seen a rash of such incidents within the community.”

But while the majority of crimes don't result in serious injuries, there have been a number of violent incidents in TTC locations recently. On May 31, a TTC employee was stabbed repeatedly at the Lawrence West subway station. Police allege an assailant walked up to the employee, who was in the collector's booth, and tossed a cup of gasoline at the booth. The assailant then demanded the employee open the booth door. When the employee complied, the assailant stabbed him, took a handful of cash and ran off.

The most serious TTC crime in recent months took place on April 13 at the Kennedy subway station. Police found Nick Brown, 21, badly wounded inside an otherwise empty subway car — he had been stabbed and later died of his injuries. Less than a week later, a 16-year-old was stabbed in the back as he stood on a bus platform at the same station. The stabbings prompted the TTC to boost the number of special constables manning the station.

In 2005, the TTC approved a $6.5-million plan to hire an additional 102 staff members over the next 10 years, virtually all of them special constables. The new hires, in turn, have helped facilitate larger investigations ranging from fake metro-pass operations to iPod snatchings and parking-lot thefts.

“We continue to monitor the trends, and when we see a spike we aggressively go after it,” Special Constable Andrews said. “Over the years it seems we've moved from one issue to another.”
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Old June 15th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #398
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Congratulations, Ontario! this all seems quite promising:

GTA, Hamilton transit systems get $17.5B in Ont. funding

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...it-subway.html

I particularily like the prospect of your Lakeshore GO line becoming electrified . . .
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Old June 15th, 2007, 11:00 PM   #399
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Ontario unveils $17-billion transit plan




Ontario unveils $17-billion transit plan

JEFF GRAY
Globe and Mail Update

June 15, 2007 at 12:18 PM EDT

TORONTO — Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty had pledged $17.5-billion for rapid transit projects across greater Toronto and Hamilton on Friday in a massive pre-election move that provides a massive boost to the TTC's ambitious light-rail network plans and calls for the extension of the Yonge subway line.

The announcement will see the province partly fund 52 rapid-transit projects in the next 12 years.

Unlike other recent announcements, the province is committing to fund two-thirds of the costs, up from its usual one-third share of recent years.

It is calling on the federal government to fund the remaining third of the cost, eliminating the capital burden for cash-strapped municipalities.
Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty was to announce a $17-billion transit plan on Friday.

The change in this financing formula is a major shift, signifying something akin to a return to the model brought in by premier Bill Davis in the 1970s, which saw the province fund 75 per cent of the capital costs of rapid transit.

Overall, 902 kilometres of new or improved rapid-transit routes will be built by 2020, the province says, creating 175,000 jobs during their construction, which is supposed to start in 2008.

The projects include:

- extending the TTC's Yonge subway line up to Highway 7

- electrifying the GO Lakeshore lines, which will make a trip from Hamilton 15 minutes faster and reduce emissions

- boost capacity on other GO Train lines

- expand bus service across Highway 407

- build two rapid-transit lines across Hamilton

- commit funds to the TTC's $6-billion Transit City plan, which calls for seven new light-rail routes crisscrossing Toronto.

The province had already committed to a $2-billion project to extend the TTC's Spadina subway line north to Vaughan.

The government says the projects will be financed over 50 years, and that road tolls – currently a hot topic among transportation experts – will “not be necessary”.




MOVEONTARIO 2020 PROJECTS
GO Transit Commuter Rail

GO Lakeshore West rail line capacity expansion by adding a third track from Port Credit to Oakville
GO Lakeshore West rail line capacity expansion by adding a third track from Burlington to Hamilton
GO Lakeshore East rail line capacity expansion by adding a third track from Union Station to Scarborough
GO Lakeshore East rail line extension from Oshawa to Bowmanville
GO Lakeshore rail line electrification (SuperGO)
GO Milton rail line capacity expansion from Union Station to Milton
GO Georgetown rail line capacity expansion from Union Station to Georgetown
GO Bradford rail line capacity expansion from Union Station to Bradford
GO Bradford rail line extension and capacity expansion from Bradford to Barrie
GO Richmond Hill rail line capacity expansion from Union Station to Richmond Hill
GO Richmond Hill rail line extension to Aurora Road
GO Stouffville rail line capacity expansion from Union Station to Stouffville and extension of the line to Uxbridge
New GO Crosstown rail line between Weston Road and the Don Valley
New GO Crosstown rail line between the Don Valley and Agincourt
New GO rail line from Union Station to Bolton
New GO rail line on the Havelock line from Agincourt to Pickering
New GO rail line on the Seaton line from Agincourt to Brock Road in Pickering
GO Bus Rapid Transit(BRT)

GO Bus Rapid Transit along Highway 403 from Oakville GO rail station to Mississauga
Mississauga Transitway west of Mississauga City Centre to Winston Churchill Boulevard
Mississauga Transitway east of Mississauga City Centre to Renforth Drive
GO Bus Rapid Transit northwest Toronto link from Renforth Drive to York University
GO Bus Rapid Transit on Markham Road from Highway 407 in Markham to Highway 401
GO Bus Rapid Transit on Highway 401 from Markham Road in Scarborough to Pickering GO rail station
GO Bus Rapid Transit connector on Highway 427 from Renforth Drive to Highway 407
GO Bus Rapid Transit along Highway 407 from York University to Langstaff (Yonge Street) and on to Markham Road
GO Bus Rapid Transit along Highway 407 from Burlington to Highway 401
GO Bus Rapid Transit along Highway 407 from Highway 401 to Highway 427
GO Bus Rapid Transit along Highway 407 from Highway 427 to York University
Subway and Other Rapid Transit

Yonge subway line extension north from Finch station to Highway 7 (Langstaff)
VIVA Markham North-South Link from Markham Centre to Don Mills station
Pearson Air-Rail link to Union Station
Hamilton east-west rapid transit on King/Main Streets from Eastgate Mall to McMaster University
Hamilton north-south rapid transit on James/Upper James Streets from Rymal Road to King Street
Brampton Acceleride on Queen Street from Main Street to Highway 50
Hurontario Light Rail Transit from Queen Street in Brampton to Lakeshore Road in Mississauga
Eglinton Avenue Light Rail Transit from Renforth Drive to Kennedy Road in Scarborough
Yonge Bus Rapid Transit busway from Finch station to Steeles Avenue
Dundas Street West Light Rail Transit from Kipling station to Hurontario Street
Scarborough RT extension from McCowan station to Sheppard Avenue
Sheppard Avenue Light Rail Transit from Don Mills Road to Morningside Avenue
Finch Avenue West Light Rail Transit from Highway 27 to Yonge Street
Don Mills Road Light Rail Transit from Steeles Avenue to the Bloor-Danforth subway
Jane Street Light Rail Transit from Steeles Avenue to Jane station on the Bloor-Danforth subway
Malvern Light Rail Transit from Kennedy station to Malvern
Waterfront West Light Rail Transit from Union Station to Long Branch
VIVA Yonge Street from Steeles Avenue to Highway 7 (Langstaff)
VIVA Yonge Street from Highway 7 (Langstaff) to 19th Avenue in Richmond Hill
VIVA Yonge Street from 19th Avenue to Newmarket
VIVA Highway 7 from Highway 50 to Yonge Street (Langstaff)
VIVA Highway 7 from Yonge Street (Langstaff) to Cornell
Durham rapid transit line on Highway 2 from Oshawa to Pickering
Spadina subway line extension north from Downsview station to Highway 7 (Vaughan Corporate Centre)
*Projects subject to the review of the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority.

The Government of Ontario also announced today it will fund up to two-thirds of the project costs for Kitchener-Waterloo's rapid transit plan. The government will work with the region to request the balance of funding from the federal government.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 11:13 PM   #400
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Pearson air link eh? Wow...
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