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Old March 26th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #661
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The TTC should accelerate its plans to transition to an automated train control suite. Robots don't strike. During Vancouver's summer-long transit strike in 2001 SkyTrain kept running while the buses were ground to a halt. As an aside, the 2001 nat'l census occurred during the strike and this utterly skewed Vancouver's transit stats for half a decade.
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Old March 26th, 2008, 12:24 PM   #662
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toronto is a city of s tudents.. i think that they should improve the railway!
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Old March 26th, 2008, 07:24 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouverite View Post
The TTC should accelerate its plans to transition to an automated train control suite. Robots don't strike. During Vancouver's summer-long transit strike in 2001 SkyTrain kept running while the buses were ground to a halt. As an aside, the 2001 nat'l census occurred during the strike and this utterly skewed Vancouver's transit stats for half a decade.
Not really: even if the trains are ATC you can still have an operator who just sits there opening and closing doors. That's the way in many cities.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 03:45 AM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouverite View Post
The TTC should accelerate its plans to transition to an automated train control suite. Robots don't strike. During Vancouver's summer-long transit strike in 2001 SkyTrain kept running while the buses were ground to a halt. As an aside, the 2001 nat'l census occurred during the strike and this utterly skewed Vancouver's transit stats for half a decade.
SkyTrains would've continued running regardless of the bus strike. Remember, Coast Mountain Bus Company and SkyTrain are two complete divisions and unions, despite being under TransLink.

I don't think it's necessary for the TTC to be completely automated. Just partially like the Scarborough RT would be fine.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 05:11 AM   #665
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Quote:
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The TTC should accelerate its plans to transition to an automated train control suite. Robots don't strike.
You still need staff to monitor the system. This is a task that can be carried out by management staff though (they don't strike either, unlike their underlings). However, if the stations are not manned, then the trains can't be accessed by passengers, since the stations would be locked.

That said, the TTC is moving as fast as it can afford to without disrupting service on the Yonge Line. As for Bloor, I agree with you. As an aside, Sheppard is already fully equipped to handle automation, they just don't have demand for such a service.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 05:12 AM   #666
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The TTC union is crap, their on strike every year I believe, just today our company was busy arranging pick/drops for employees that use TTC because their 100% certain that they will go on strike.

Its really getting old now, seriously!
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Old March 27th, 2008, 05:24 AM   #667
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The sad thing the people who will get hurt are the people who can only dream of having the services that the TTC employees get.
Like when the Reporters ask the TTC people, won't this hurt people. They sort of indirectly say, so what???

A lot of people now work in places where they can be gone Tomorrow.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 05:34 AM   #668
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unions... so 1800s.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 05:59 AM   #669
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Aren't unions a 1900s invention?



Anyway, from the globe and mail:

"Mr. Kinnear insists workers should not be forced to pay for the consequences of what he thinks is an unsafe workplace. Workplace Safety and Insurance Board data show 538 lost-time claims due to injury by TTC workers last year, an average of one for every 17 employees.

By far, the most common causes were sprains, strains and tears, which accounted for 137 claims, followed by post-traumatic stress, and contusions, bruises and fractures. Vehicle operators made 42 per cent of the claims, compared with less than 6 per cent by mechanical and maintenance workers."
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Old March 27th, 2008, 06:01 AM   #670
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They shouldn't be working there if its not safe for them, this is seriously more like joining the army but asking for monetary compensation after being hit by a mortar.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 07:08 AM   #671
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Getting even 50% of your wage after your hurt is non-existent in many workplaces.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 09:05 AM   #672
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They shouldn't be working there if its not safe for them, this is seriously more like joining the army but asking for monetary compensation after being hit by a mortar.
TTC doesn't employ basic training in the same way the army does though, they have a different training regiment, and taking physical punishment, AFAIK, is not part of that curriculum, although customer service skills are. This is the Toronto TRANSIT Commission, not the Toronto TACTICS Commission.

I think Kinnear is an idiot, but I do agree with the principle that workers be safe in the work they do. Operators have enough stress with the traffic they fight on a daily basis, excluding subway drivers, they don't need to be victimized by their patrons. This is not a job that warrants danger pay, but by that same token, they should be out of harm's way with such being the case. Programs to achieve such results are in progress, but they take time.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #673
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if customer service is part of their training then it must be taught by a former soviet gulag prison guard.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #674
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Quote:
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I think Kinnear is an idiot, but I do agree with the principle that workers be safe in the work they do. Operators have enough stress with the traffic they fight on a daily basis, excluding subway drivers, they don't need to be victimized by their patrons. This is not a job that warrants danger pay, but by that same token, they should be out of harm's way with such being the case. Programs to achieve such results are in progress, but they take time.
Of course in an ideal world, workers shouldn't be victimized by patrons. But how is more pay going to fix that problem and how is that an excuse to go on strike? Honestly, every service-related job will involve stress and the occasional mean customer. It's just a fact of life for other workers like waiters and call centre agents.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 03:57 AM   #675
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I was surprised to learn that the union members DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR the ONTARIO HEALTH TAX.

From a 2007 article:

"The decision by the high court, which did not give a reason for not hearing the case, puts Toronto taxpayers on the hook for $6 million a year.

TTC Chairman Adam Giambrone also said the cash-strapped city expects to pay $15 million in back pay to workers. He was disappointed by the ruling.

"Well $6 million is a lot of service and we would have much rather have invested it in more drivers and more buses out there on the street moving people," Giambrone told CTV's Paul Bliss.

When Premier Dalton McGuinty's Liberal government introduced the Ontario health premium on July 1, 2004, the union said the TTC, not individual employees, should pay the health tax.

Unionized employees will now receive a refund of between $500 and $700, money owed to them dating back to July 1, 2004, said Local 113 president Bob Kinnear, who was excited by the legal victory.
"


Honesty, how could the city and the TTC be so weak. The arrogance of the TTC union is disgusting. These union members are getting benefits above and beyond what most private sector employees are getting for a comparable workload. With declining service, decrepit stations, a bankrupt city there is really no reason why they should be getting MORE benefits.

Tax payers are ALREADY paying for their medical costs and days off! Their new demands are merely meant to torment riders.
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Last edited by Skybean; March 28th, 2008 at 04:19 AM.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #676
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The TTC says it will threaten to employ a work to rule campaign where they will deliberately slow service. My question is... can the service be any worse?
-------------
I saw a headline today in The Star that says 'TTC union considers slowdown of service.' Has anyone travelled the 'better' way lately? You couldn't get any slower or more inefficient. I have no sympathy for the workers. They want to strike because they only get 75% of their pay if they are off on disability, while the rest of us have to contend with 60 to 70% (if we're lucky) when we are on disability.
Michael Quintin, Toronto

I truly believe that TTC workers should be banned from striking. Take the words directly from their current ad campaign, "One million reasons to make a deal," should also equate to, "One million reasons not to go on strike." The fact is that these workers chose to work for an industry that provides a service to the people of Toronto and should be held accountable to that. We, as riders, really don't appreciate being held hostage during these negotiations.
Crystal Gerichter, Toronto

No, I think TTC workers should be allowed to strike, as long as those of us who miss work and don't get paid for days off, are reimbursed by the TTC. Does the union provide "Riders Employment Insurance" for us customers?
Louise Amm, Toronto

TTC workers live in the Twilight Zone. Fifty-thousand-dollar salaries, benefits, pension plan -- what else do they want? We, low-income taxpayers are forking out their union paycheques every day. I am a retail associate and get $10/hr plus commission. No benefits, no sick leave/nor sick days. No matter how many years we work, the 2-week vacation time never changes. I cannot afford a car, so during strike I will park at home in front of the TV. Will David Miller compensate me?
Sam Butera, Toronto

I do not condone violence under any circumstances, but having endured many "verbal assaults" by belligerent TTC employees for no good reason, it does not surprise me that there are people who retaliate. Many of them are certainly not afraid, and go out of their way to provoke confrontation. Where is the compensation for riders that are traumatized and inconvenienced by these overpaid bullies? Not to mention the appalling service and filthy stations we have to put up with.
Jeff Lazare, Toronto

Two words: "Essential Service." The union has done a very good job convincing me of the importance of the TTC. It is so important to the health and vitality of the city that it cannot be allowed to close for even one day. The wildcat and illegal strike of last year proved that.
Simon Wookey, Toronto

I have been taking the TTC since I was 3 and was carried on by my father. No one in my family has ever owned a car. I spend 20 hours a week on the TTC travelling to my 2 jobs (one full-time and one part-time). I have never seen a TTC operator being attacked or spat upon: the worst I have seen is a self-identified veteran using every four letter word on a female TTC operator who refused to accept his small change. Perhaps we could get more information about this physical abuse. I would like to see statistics. I would think that TTC operators had a greater chance of injury 30 or 40 years ago when they were allowed to eject drunks and other troublemakers from their vehicles. The fear of lawsuits against the TTC has stopped this practice.
May Uusberg, Toronto

For thousands of Torontonians, the TTC isn't merely an alternative to their car or a convenient way to get around the city, but a real and absolute necessity. It is their only means of getting to work, school, doctor's appointments, etc. By taking that away, the employees of the TTC jeopardize the financial, educational and social welfare of people who are likely already disadvantaged. When the average salary of a TTC working is $26 an hour, it's selfish, greedy and simply wrong for these people to strike and make those less fortunate than them suffer.
Lauren Ellis, Toronto

source: http://www.thestar.com/comment/Speakout/article/404696
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Old March 28th, 2008, 07:36 AM   #677
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Quote:
No, I think TTC workers should be allowed to strike, as long as those of us who miss work and don't get paid for days off, are reimbursed by the TTC. Does the union provide "Riders Employment Insurance" for us customers?
Louise Amm, Toronto
I like this idea. Last the there was the illegal strike, the TTC reimbursed Metropass users for that day. I think if there is a strike, they should do the same: Only out of TTC employee pockets.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 07:30 PM   #678
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wow. I like the subway of Toronto
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Old March 29th, 2008, 05:41 PM   #679
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Of course in an ideal world, workers shouldn't be victimized by patrons. But how is more pay going to fix that problem and how is that an excuse to go on strike? Honestly, every service-related job will involve stress and the occasional mean customer. It's just a fact of life for other workers like waiters and call centre agents.
I agree more pay isn't going to fix anything. The programs that I was referring to was stuff like barriers between operator and patron in surface vehicles. However, you can't brush aside the issues that threaten the safety of workers like you are suggesting by stating "life's harsh, deal with it". Doesn't work that way, and the law would actually agree with the union on that, so the TTC is in a difficult position on this because if they try to take it to court they'd lose, and they know this. I think the union is being a bunch of ingrates by not taking things like the barriers program into consideration as these talks proceed, but since the program has not reached the implementation stage yet, the TTC doesn't have much to show for it yet, and thus is at a handicap at the bargaining table.

Call center agents can't get physically assaulted by people on the other end of a phone line, btw.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 06:15 PM   #680
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I agree more pay isn't going to fix anything. The programs that I was referring to was stuff like barriers between operator and patron in surface vehicles. However, you can't brush aside the issues that threaten the safety of workers like you are suggesting by stating "life's harsh, deal with it". Doesn't work that way, and the law would actually agree with the union on that, so the TTC is in a difficult position on this because if they try to take it to court they'd lose, and they know this. I think the union is being a bunch of ingrates by not taking things like the barriers program into consideration as these talks proceed, but since the program has not reached the implementation stage yet, the TTC doesn't have much to show for it yet, and thus is at a handicap at the bargaining table.

Call center agents can't get physically assaulted by people on the other end of a phone line, btw.
I understand what you are saying. But I still think mean customers are just a fact of life in this and many other occupations, and there really is no way to change that. I find it hard to sympathize with the union's position, since they seem mainly interested in getting more pay.
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