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Old April 21st, 2008, 07:07 AM   #721
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Originally Posted by BYS2 View Post
seriously, and the it looks so cheap, why can't they make it nice like hk or japan subway system..
Depends which part of the Japan subway system you're talking about. Most of the Japan subway system looks about as poche as Toronto, both have some examples that are above par.

Commuter stations are another matter, they look better, but GO ticket counters aren't that cheap looking IMO.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 07:47 AM   #722
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ttc is a piece of shit man... seriously, those collectors there should be making $8/hour max.. they're pretty much homeless people who dropped out of high school. if i ever get the chance, those collectors are all gonna get fired and thrown out on the streets.
Needless to say, I'd guess your odds of ever getting that chance is is...none.



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Old April 21st, 2008, 07:54 AM   #723
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ttc is a piece of shit man... seriously, those collectors there should be making $8/hour max.. they're pretty much homeless people who dropped out of high school... seriously, and the it looks so cheap, why can't they make it nice like hk or japan subway system.. if they're gonna keep jacking up token prices every year, they should give us better facilities..

this is bs, if i ever get the chance, those collectors are all gonna get fired and thrown out on the streets.
ok, well $8 an hour is below minimum wage, which is $8.75, and you can't live off of $8.75 in Toronto. Plus they have to deal with *******s and all that, so id expect them to get paid pretty well. Plus a lot of them work a lot of OT. Sure they have a pretty decent job, not having to do much, but can still be stressful, hence the pay rate. And also the fact they are in a union
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Old April 21st, 2008, 02:41 PM   #724
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You contradict yourself in that statement.

Like I told sumisu, it IS pronounced EglinGton. You cannot say that I - or anyone in my family actually, have poor language skills, all of us are at least tri-lingual and lived in different countries that don't speak english, but as a Toronto native since childhood, I have ALWAYS known the pronounciation of it to be EglinGton, and most people would agree. This is not some immigrant bullshit like you try to proclaim, you were right at the start of your post: some names are not pronounced phonetically.

No, it is just that your ass is backwards. This is not some sub-standard English horseshit. The TTC is being very smart (and avoiding ridicule by the locals) by making the effort to make sure they pronounce the name the same way as the locals in that area. The locals of each area would unquestionably know best, they've lived there, many must have grown up there, surely some have been there for a generation in most of these places. They know how to pronounce these names. These are not "immigrant retards" like you try to pass them off as. The TTC IS using the proper pronounciation. You need to realize that in every language, there are enough names that don't follow the rules to the letter. There is no conflicting message being sent by the TTC on this, the TTC has done their homework, and if anything, they will be helping set the record straight on the pronounciations because they got the proper pronounciations straight from the horse's mouth.

Frankly, it is the person that tries to pronounce it as EgliNton, phonetically, that looks like the foreigner. The natives pronounce it EglinGton.

That's a completely different topic (not the same thing at all, completely unrelated to pronounciation) and you are being absurd.
My ass is backwards? I understand your crude attempt at English, but that isn't proper English either. It doesn't mean anything. You are being rude, arrogant, and narrow minded. Perhaps, you should think this through systematically rather than resort to a knee-jerk response because you don't like the criticism. Just because the people around you can't say Eglinton correctly doesn't make it correct. If 20,000 non-English speakers move into your neighbourhood and start calling it Egli-ton and no one ever points out the error, how would they know if it's right? They probably aren't going to take it too lightly if someone tells them 20 years later that they have been saying it incorrectly the whole time. I am not saying your English skills are deficient, only that your mastery of the language isn't perfect. That is certainly the case if you say 'EglinGton'.

All of you are tri-lingual in your family? Well now it's starting to make sense that there are certain subtleties of the language that weren't mastered. This isn't immigrant bullshit, but a very obvious repurcussion from not having English as a mother tongue. With mass immigration in this country, it's only natural that huge swaths of the population say certain words wrong. I can assure you that residents of Toronto who have English as a mother tongue, and were schooled at reputable institutions certainly don't put a second 'G' in Eglinton.

It is you who are being absurd if you are too proud to acknowledge normal and understandable deficiencies in people's skills with a 2nd or 3rd language. This is a city and nation that uses cinema and theatre to mean the same thing. That, is a result of a huge population who's first language was not English whether that hurts your feelings or not.

Last edited by isaidso; April 21st, 2008 at 02:55 PM.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 04:58 PM   #725
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My ass is backwards?
Yes. Any other questions?
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I understand your crude attempt at English, but that isn't proper English either. It doesn't mean anything.
Actually it does. Where is it written that names follow standard pronounciation rules? It isn't written anywhere, and it is a well-known realm where exceptions are accepted in pronouciation. As I told you before, it is not restricted to English. You could probably find examples in any language if you wanted to look.
Examples in English, for example, would be Jesse, Isaac, Sean, among others. Examples in Japanese include 菅原 or 須藤, both have more than one reading despite being written the same, one of the two pronounciations deviate from what would "proper" pronounciations, and names are a common place of confusion in the language actually, because the rules don't always apply to names in this language.  八幡 is another example that can cause confusion.
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You are being rude, arrogant, and narrow minded.
Because I am the one who is open to the reality that names can be exception to standard pronounciation rules, I'm narrow-minded? Good one bud, got another there?
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Perhaps, you should think this through systematically rather than resort to a knee-jerk response because you don't like the criticism.
I welcome criticism, but I ask that you back it up with something substantial, which you haven't and I have.
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Just because the people around you can't say Eglinton correctly doesn't make it correct.
Just because the name doesn't follow the rules doesn't mean the rules must be imposed upon it, that's what I keep telling you but you are too narrow-minded to consider this reality.
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If 20,000 non-English speakers move into your neighbourhood and start calling it Egli-ton and no one ever points out the error, how would they know if it's right? They probably aren't going to take it too lightly if someone tells them 20 years later that they have been saying it incorrectly the whole time. I am not saying your English skills are deficient, only that your mastery of the language isn't perfect. That is certainly the case if you say 'EglinGton'.

All of you are tri-lingual in your family? Well now it's starting to make sense that there are certain subtleties of the language that weren't mastered. This isn't immigrant bullshit, but a very obvious repurcussion from not having English as a mother tongue. With mass immigration in this country, it's only natural that huge swaths of the population say certain words wrong. I can assure you that residents of Toronto who have English as a mother tongue, and were schooled at reputable institutions certainly don't put a second 'G' in Eglinton.
Well, way to make yourself look stupid, English is my mother tongue. You can stop making assumptions now that you've learned that lesson the hard way. If people that have lived in a neighborhood for most of or all of their life, they know how to pronounce it. The TTC researched these, they got the pronounciation right, I've pointed this out how many times? Hey, look at Queen's Quay for the best example. Only the locals get that one right, huge swaths, quite possibly a majority, of the city mispronounces that one because, like Eglinton but worse, it doesn't follow the rules either! It isn't pronounced "Kwae" like you would insist it is by the very nature of your argument, it is pronounced "Kee" because it is an exception. Likewise, Eglinton is an exception. If you're too narrow-minded to accept that, that's your problem. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you're right though.

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It is you who are being absurd if you are too proud to acknowledge normal and understandable deficiencies in people's skills with a 2nd or 3rd language. This is a city and nation that uses cinema and theatre to mean the same thing. That, is a result of a huge population who's first language was not English whether that hurts your feelings or not.
Don't worry about hurting my feelings bud, you're being schooled here by someone who's 1st language is English. Shows what you know.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 07:20 PM   #726
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Toronto Star Apr 21, 2008 04:30 AM

The Agreement

WAGES

Tentative agreement gives 8,900 TTC workers a 3% wage increase in each year of a three-year deal, which will have them making $27.38 an hour in the first year. Under the old contract, operators made less than their Mississauga counterparts but a "GTA clause" ensures that, throughout the contract, they are the highest-paid in the region.

INJURY COMPENSATION

A sticking point throughout negotiations, the union wanted workers hurt on the job to get a top-up to the 85 per cent provided under the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board. The new contract will give those workers 100% of their wages.

BENEFITS

Improvements to insurance, dental and other benefits.

PREMIUMS

Extra compensation for shift workers and skilled trades.

NEW HIRES

New TTC workers will retain the same pay and benefits as their long-term counterparts.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/416592
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Old April 21st, 2008, 07:48 PM   #727
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It is you who are being absurd if you are too proud to acknowledge normal and understandable deficiencies in people's skills with a 2nd or 3rd language. This is a city and nation that uses cinema and theatre to mean the same thing. That, is a result of a huge population who's first language was not English whether that hurts your feelings or not.
This theory of people with non-english first language not speaking "proper" english is futile, as some of the worse dialects I've ever heard...are ones from England itself.

And then there's the fact that English is mostly just a bastardized derivative of French in the first place.

Does anybody really relate the street or the area (Yonge & Eg) to the Earl of Eglinton anyway? So it less a case of "right and wrong" than it is a case of general custom. The fact that an error in the official spelling that did indeed include the second g in the 1800's has obviously affected the "traditional" way of saying it in a historical sense.

So I really think it's more of a Beach vs Beaches thing, rather than some empirical pronunciation thing. I love it when people get riled over such nit-picky things (and I do plenty of it, so I can't complain).




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Old April 21st, 2008, 08:13 PM   #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BYS2 View Post
ttc is a piece of shit man... seriously, those collectors there should be making $8/hour max.. they're pretty much homeless people who dropped out of high school... seriously, and the it looks so cheap, why can't they make it nice like hk or japan subway system.. if they're gonna keep jacking up token prices every year, they should give us better facilities..

this is bs, if i ever get the chance, those collectors are all gonna get fired and thrown out on the streets.
As you have already been humiliated about the minimum wage comment, I would say starting pay at $15/hour would be more than generous.
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 09:03 PM   #729
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As you have already been humiliated about the minimum wage comment, I would say starting pay at $15/hour would be more than generous.
What...does that make you next in line. LOL

So, first tell me how you have evaluated what jobs are worth when you aren't qualified, and tell me how you would go about implementing this.




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Old April 21st, 2008, 09:11 PM   #730
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As you have already been humiliated about the minimum wage comment, I would say starting pay at $15/hour would be more than generous.
i do believe those ttc workers should be paid below minimum wage.. most of the time they're just rude and not that helpful.. especial those damned token collectors who just sit on their asses and jack off the whole day... you say $15/hour would be more than generous, well guess what: ttc workers already get paid $27.83 per hour plus a 3% increase per year under the new deal.. $50/hour is not far off now if they keep striking every year or so...

seriously, those ttc collectors don't even have basic social etiquette.. they look like a bunch of crazy homeless dudes they just pulled off the streets and put them in uniforms...

plus, a few of the token collectors actually made over 100k/year which is completely ridiculous.. i don't care if they're pulling double OT and have 10 years experience, 100k+/year for sleeping in a chair is outrageous.. soon, i'm gonna find out that that crazy homeless "can-you-spare-some-change" lady at queen's park is making $200k/year
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Old April 21st, 2008, 09:21 PM   #731
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i do believe those ttc workers should be paid below minimum wage.. most of the time they're just rude and not that helpful.. especial those damned token collectors who just sit on their asses and jack off the whole day... you say $15/hour would be more than generous, well guess what: ttc workers already get paid $27.83 per hour plus a 3% increase per year under the new deal.. $50/hour is not far off now if they keep striking every year or so...

seriously, those ttc collectors don't even have basic social etiquette.. they look like a bunch of crazy homeless dudes they just pulled off the streets and put them in uniforms...

plus, a few of the token collectors actually made over 100k/year which is completely ridiculous.. i don't care if they're pulling double OT and have 10 years experience, 100k+/year for sleeping in a chair is outrageous.. soon, i'm gonna find out that that crazy homeless "can-you-spare-some-change" lady at queen's park is making $200k/year
I've seen nice token collectors and rude ones. But I won't discuss this any further cause I don't feel like feeding trolls today.

On a side note, does anyone know where I can get a full list of job opportunities at the TTC? The website just lists bus drivers and other specialized positions.
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 09:56 PM   #732
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those ttc workers should be paid below minimum wage.. most of the time they're just rude and not that helpful..
You're being harsh and making me reckon that you're patronising in the way you relate to the station masters. Therefore, does this mean you yourself win negative $15 per negative hour, coz that's the only value worth fishing for from your pathetically snidy comments . . . I mean, how can you gauge their helpfulness if you yourself are too lazy to do your own flipping homework? As I pass by, I often blurt out "Get a map!" to twerps like you who appear to think nothing of harrassing station masters in your tedium-filled ways . . .

The TTC employs the most straightforward transport staff I've come to meet in life, I liked them. They were playful; their clever sarcasm's what I remember the most about them!

Last edited by trainrover; April 21st, 2008 at 10:10 PM.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 10:36 PM   #733
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You're being harsh and making me reckon that you're patronising in the way you relate to the station masters. Therefore, does this mean you yourself win negative $15 per negative hour, coz that's the only value worth fishing for from your pathetically snidy comments . . . I mean, how can you gauge their helpfulness if you yourself are too lazy to do your own flipping homework? As I pass by, I often blurt out "Get a map!" to twerps like you who appear to think nothing of harrassing station masters in your tedium-filled ways . . .

The TTC employs the most straightforward transport staff I've come to meet in life, I liked them. They were playful; their clever sarcasm's what I remember the most about them!
what's a station master... you mean those useless homeless people they hire at ttc? i think the ttc must be a new type of welfare for them...

and were your high when you said they were playful? cause seriously, i don't think that crazy lady at queen's park station who asks for change is playful.. nor have i experienced any 'clever sarcasm'..

i mean, if the ttc staff has any training at all, they should at least dress in a respectable manner and not look like they just came to work after rummaging through a few garbage cans..
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Old April 21st, 2008, 10:49 PM   #734
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What...does that make you next in line. LOL

So, first tell me how you have evaluated what jobs are worth when you aren't qualified, and tell me how you would go about implementing this.




KGB
Well, many front end customer service clerks (ie: cashiers) do not make much more than minimum wage, so I don't see a problem lowering their pay a tad bit. Seeing as they work for a public service, I don't feel minimum wage is appropriate, but neither is $30 hour.

Besides, with annual wage increases, that $15/hour would be $30 soon enough.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 11:27 PM   #735
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Well, many front end customer service clerks (ie: cashiers) do not make much more than minimum wage, so I don't see a problem lowering their pay a tad bit.
But you have no idea what the duties and responsibilities of a collector is, so how do make this cashier comparison? Needless to say, it's absurd.

Wage parody for TTC collectors isn't determined by looking at what cashiers make, it's done by looking at what other collectors for other transit agencies make. This is pretty simple stuff yea?

And I was asking how you would actually implement this idea of yours...like exactly how are you going to either fire all the current collectors, or lower their wages legally with just cause? How are you going to get rid of the union...or prevent new ones from forming? How are you going to hire, train and maintain staff of any value even if you could, knowing the same job in every other transit system is paid way more?

What you are suggesting makes little sense...so I'm asking why even entertain it?




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Old April 21st, 2008, 11:35 PM   #736
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But you have no idea what the duties and responsibilities of a collector is, so how do make this cashier comparison? Needless to say, it's absurd.

Wage parody for TTC collectors isn't determined by looking at what cashiers make, it's done by looking at what other collectors for other transit agencies make. This is pretty simple stuff yea?

And I was asking how you would actually implement this idea of yours...like exactly how are you going to either fire all the current collectors, or lower their wages legally with just cause? How are you going to get rid of the union...or prevent new ones from forming? How are you going to hire, train and maintain staff of any value even if you could, knowing the same job in every other transit system is paid way more?

What you are suggesting makes little sense...so I'm asking why even entertain it?




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privatize it... wages will go down by at least a half.. ttc is currently money fat
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 12:14 AM   #737
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I agree with privatizing but imo service will go down though.
Sure the buses may be paved with gold, but it would be useless if they start cutting frequencies and the number of bus routes. Seeing buses come every 2-3 mins on Eglinton would be gone, see buses run every 10-15 mins in far flung suburbs will be gone.

Hate the TTC all you want and I do as well, they provide high frequencies unlike any NA transit system apart from NY especially for buses.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 02:14 AM   #738
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Not every route is frequent. The route that I would use most comes every 30 minutes normally; 20 minutes rush hour.

Just today I had another TTC driver stop at a bus stop and leave as I was walking / jogging to the bus stop (literally 5 steps away). Over the years the quality of service has worsened. I'm not sure if it's because of the attitude of new hires and the loss of older ones who have left, but this is how I feel about the state of transit in this city. Kinnear agrees that service is "substandard"... so why should everyone be getting a raise at almost 2x inflation? Is there no accountability?

I really don't see how $29.00/hr salaries + unmatched benefits (100% injury topup, no paying Ontario Health Premium) + perks (new shoe allowance, unlimited transit pass...) can be sustained without significant fare increases and increases in property taxes. As salaries are sticky upwards, passengers continually get shafted. Also, due to this GTA clause, if Mississauga increases pay by some absurd amount, say -- 5%, the TTC will automatically follow suit! There's just no way out of this death trap.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 02:50 AM   #739
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So Bob Kinnear, who was called an idiot by everyone in this thread, got pretty much everything he asked for. The moral of the story seems to be that you can get paid ridiculously above your market worth if you have a union to hold the city hostage.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 03:59 AM   #740
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Not every route is frequent. The route that I would use most comes every 30 minutes normally; 20 minutes rush hour.

That's unusually long for peak and non-peak frequency. In most cities, a route like that would have longer wait times, and most likely not exist period.


Quote:
I agree with privatizing but imo service will go down though.
So why would you agree with privatizing? There really is no up-side to privatizing.


Quote:
I really don't see how $29.00/hr salaries + unmatched benefits (100% injury topup, no paying Ontario Health Premium) + perks (new shoe allowance, unlimited transit pass...) can be sustained without significant fare increases and increases in property taxes.
Because the TTC can provide a most-effective product than anyone else, where the costs are the same or even higher.


Quote:
The moral of the story seems to be that you can get paid ridiculously above your market worth if you have a union to hold the city hostage.
But you are talking about market values...and you haven't looked at the market. They aren't being paid above market value. Don't expect anyone to take anything you say seriously if even the basics escape you.




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