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Old April 26th, 2008, 08:11 AM   #761
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Apparently Bob Kinnear doesn't know that Queen's Park will definitely declare the TTC a permanent essential service, and that *he* will without any doubt be the biggest loser of all.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 03:17 PM   #762
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The TTC is on strike as of today, 26 April 2008:

Toronto Star

TTC workers on strike

Apr 26, 2008 04:30 AM
Tess Kalinowski
Noor Javed
Staff reporters


Torontonians are waking up today to find themselves hijacked by a transit strike.

Subways, streetcars and buses were taken out of service at midnight after TTC workers rejected a tentative contract settlement.

But the strike could be over by Monday as the provincial government scrambles to put together back-to-work legislation that could be passed as early as Sunday.


Government House Leader Michael Bryant has been advising Progressive Conservatives and New Democrats that an order in council will be passed today, clearing the way for tomorrow's session.
A draft of the bill should be available today to give MPPs in all three parties time to vet it.

The Sunday passage of the law would guarantee that Monday morning commuters will not be inconvenienced.

Within minutes of the contract being rejected, the provincial labour ministry announced mediators were calling union officials and the TTC back to the bargaining table at 1 p.m. today.

The tentative deal was rejected by 65 per cent of the 9,000 members of the Amalgamated Transit Union, including operating and maintenance employees.

"We have assessed the situation and decided that we will not expose our members to the dangers of assaults from angry and irrational members of the public," said union president Bob Kinnear.

The union has been in a legal strike position since April 1 but had promised 48 hours' notice of a service withdrawal.

Kinnear said union members had faced increased threats from passengers, despite giving the notice. This time, he said, they wouldn't be so generous.

"We have a legal responsibility to protect the safety of our members and so does the TTC."

A visibly upset Mayor David Miller said the deal "was appropriate and fair."

"I'm extremely disappointed it wasn't ratified and very concerned the union hasn't honoured the 48-hour notice period," said Miller, adding the notice may have given the city enough time to renegotiate a deal and avert a strike.

The mayor said he spoke to Kinnear earlier last night and "asked on behalf of Torontonians that he honour this. He refused.

"It's unacceptable and irresponsible to the people of Toronto for the union to act this way."

TTC chair Adam Giambrone, who echoed the mayor in calling the strike unacceptable on an hour's notice, said: "This is incredibly unbelievable.

"There was a fair offer that was recommended by the union."

Unionized transit workers were notified by electronic voice mail late yesterday evening that they were not to report for their shifts effective midnight.

The message warned that the public would be upset because it was not receiving 48 hours' notice of a strike, but that the last vote had not been cast until 10 p.m.

At 11:23 p.m., TTC collectors were told over their private intercom service that they would be shutting down at midnight.

A public intercom announcement was then made.

The rejected deal, which gave workers a 3 per cent increase in each year of a three-year contract, only narrowly averted a strike last weekend.

But it was no sooner ratified by transit commissioners on Wednesday, when cracks began to emerge in the union's support for the deal.

There had been rumblings this week that powerful divisions in the union ranks could derail the ratification.

Some mechanics said they feared the job security language in the new contract wouldn't be enough to protect their jobs given that new bus repairs were covered under warranties, and being done outside the TTC.

There was also talk that some maintenance workers were disgruntled over not being included under the GTA clause, which ensures TTC drivers would be the best paid operators in the Toronto region as of December 2009.

The tentative agreement offered better dental, insurance and injury benefits, including a top-up of workers' compensation for those assaulted on the job.

- With files from Robert Benzie, Prithi Yelaja and Emily Mathieu

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/418713
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Old April 26th, 2008, 03:29 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by kelw View Post
TTC chair Adam Giambrone, who echoed the mayor in calling the strike unacceptable on an hour's notice, said: "This is incredibly unbelievable.

At 11:23 p.m., TTC collectors were told over their private intercom service that they would be shutting down at midnight.

A public intercom announcement was then made.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/418713
I don't beleive this, they only gave subway passengers a HALF-HOUR's NOTICE?!?! That's not even enough time to complete their trip in many cases!!! That's WAAAAAAY beyond unacceptable.

There's a post up at http://www.stevemunro.ca regarding this. Steve Munro is a big defender of the union, or was, I should say, as this has even turned Steve Murno against the union - that says a lot. He didn't find out about until as he was getting off the subway late Friday night, and the only reason he did know about it was because of the CITY TV crew he ran into as he got off.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #764
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You know the shit has hit the fan when Mr. Munro is no longer siding with them. If they decided to fire all the employees, I don't think many would be against this.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 07:18 PM   #765
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You know the shit has hit the fan when Mr. Munro is no longer siding with them. If they decided to fire all the employees, I don't think many would be against this.
Mr. Munro is grossly unimpressed with Kinnear himself. I can quote him (in response to another who coined the analogy first) as referring to Kinnear as a "dead-man walking."

There are a lot of comments building up fast - Mr. Munro is clearly stranded at home since he has no car (he reads everything before publishing it). Many are from people that are pro-union, but not ONE has defended this in the slightest. Every pro-union-thinking person wants Kinnear banished.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #766
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wow ttc strikes and gives us less than 90 minutes notice before walking off the job? typical uneducated homeless people behaviour... what did i say, those guys are the most retarded, useless bunch of fags.. i'm pretty sure they did it on purpose to screw as many people as possible..

From CBC: Transit users leaving bars, restaurants and late-night events were surprised to find themselves without a ride home. Most only learned of the strike after buses and subway trains failed to show up. "This is unacceptable and it's also irresponsible," Mayor David Miller told a late-night news conference, referring to the union's decision to abandon an earlier pledge to provide 48 hours' notice of a strike.

the only solution is to fire all those useless shits and kick them back out on the streets where they belong.. Reagan fired all 11,345 striking air traffic controllers in 1981 so we could definitely fire a few homeless idiots... these overpaid buffoons have got to go.. they're greedy and they don't do shit... replace them all with computers, even my calculator can do more complex tasks then these retards are paid to do.. and my calculator only costs $2

After the next contract talks, i wouldn't be surpised if token collectors get private jets to work every day... but this is what happens when you have a shit greedy union who has a monopoly over this stuff.. what they need to do is privatize this, fire all the current workers and start over.. they should also hire some competent wokers instead of the usual hopeless homeless shits that i see

Toronto Police Salaries

Cadet in training $45,042.34
4th Class Constable $50,057.71
3rd Class Constable $57,211.20
2nd Class Constable $64,364.69
1st Class Constable $71.522.91

when some homeless idiot who didn't even finish high school makes more than a police officer, you know you have a monopoly problem

Last edited by BYS2; April 26th, 2008 at 09:49 PM.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 10:50 PM   #767
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replace them all with computers, even my calculator can do more complex tasks then these retards are paid to do.. and my calculator only costs $2
Calculators can drive buses, streetcars, and subways, and fix vehicles when they break down? Wow, they should really charge more than 2 bucks for those calculators, they'd make a lotta money.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:07 AM   #768
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Bob Kinnear is a total lunatic. First he declares victory for making no concessions while admitting that service is "substandard" and that fares are too high. Now he blames TTC riders for causing a new strike! WTF?!
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:19 AM   #769
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lets go kill all ttc workers gta style.. seriously, to all ttc token collectors: if you want to make $30/hour, go to school
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:45 AM   #770
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Just in case you haven't seen it in the Toronto thread or the Canada Urban Issues thread:

TTC Strike: Confused Commuters


TTC Confused Commuters by Global Ontario ~ Video Uploaded by Me
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Old April 27th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #771
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Electrify, would you rather live in an eco-friendly mass transit-oriented city or one that is solely dominated by automobiles? To me, the answer is a resounding one for the former; look at American cities, you don't want to live in a polluted location like that.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 06:23 AM   #772
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Electrify, would you rather live in an eco-friendly mass transit-oriented city or one that is solely dominated by automobiles? To me, the answer is a resounding one for the former; look at American cities, you don't want to live in a polluted location like that.
Where did I say I support the idea of building highways through the city? I am saying that if people become so upset with the TTC because of this, then it may push people into their vehicles, and may end up forcing politicians to adapt to the majority.

Don't forget, the people that got screwed over the most were younger people who currently rely on transit to get around. How are we to expect these people to become life long transit riders, or at least transit supporters, when shit like this happens? These young people will buy cars the first chance they can get. Some of these young people may end up in political power one day, and maybe in a position that could really hurt the TTC and Toronto's vision of being transit friendly.

The irresponsible actions of the TTC today could have longer impacts on the city and transit than the union could ever imagine...
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Old April 27th, 2008, 08:40 AM   #773
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Where did I say I support the idea of building highways through the city? I am saying that if people become so upset with the TTC because of this, then it may push people into their vehicles, and may end up forcing politicians to adapt to the majority.

Don't forget, the people that got screwed over the most were younger people who currently rely on transit to get around. How are we to expect these people to become life long transit riders, or at least transit supporters, when shit like this happens? These young people will buy cars the first chance they can get. Some of these young people may end up in political power one day, and maybe in a position that could really hurt the TTC and Toronto's vision of being transit friendly.

The irresponsible actions of the TTC today could have longer impacts on the city and transit than the union could ever imagine...
Im one of those younger people who rely on transit, and today I witnessed exactly why we need it. Getting to a Raptors game without it is nuts! The cost of parking ($25), gas ($20, barely half a tank), and sitting in traffic (40 minutes to get there, 1 hour to get home) just reinforced the need for public transit. Driving did not come across as the better way.

If anything, this strike just shows how important transit is to the GTA. It would have had an even greater effect if it occured on a weekday. People see the need for transit, and I have a feeling the strike may start a new push for better transit. We already see talk of it becoming an essential service. That wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a threat of a strike.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 01:51 AM   #774
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Just thought this should be made known...

Woohoo, first post!

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Commuter relief as Ontario orders Toronto's transit workers to end surprise strike
1 hour, 10 minutes ago

55
What's this
By Maria Babbage And Colin Perkel, The Canadian Press
ADVERTISEMENT

TORONTO - Relieved commuters expressed delight after Ontario's legislature took just 30 minutes during a rare Sunday sitting to order 9,000 transit workers to end a surprise strike that idled the country's largest fleet of subways, streetcars and buses for almost two days.

All parties supported the bill, introduced personally by Premier Dalton McGuinty, who had called the emergency session just 24 hours earlier under intense pressure to stave off workweek commuter chaos.

"That sounds very good. I'm very happy," Anna Belenkova said as she walked past a still-closed downtown subway station just minutes after the law passed.

"I didn't go out (Saturday) just because of it and many parties got ruined."

The first signs of transit life, that came within hours of the legislation passing, were greeted with obvious enthusiasm.

At one downtown intersection, a gaggle of pedestrians waved at a lone street car and as it passed and the driver obligingly rang his bell in acknowledgement, apparently content to be back on the job.

In introducing the bill, McGuinty thanked the province's politicians for agreeing to return to the legislature and acting "in the best interests of all Ontarians."

He also pleaded with commuters not to take out their frustrations on transit personnel.

"I ask that upon restoration of TTC services, users extend their usual courtesy to workers there for the invaluable service they provide," McGuinty said.

"Courtesy and goodwill are the foundations upon which we should all seek to build."

Both opposition parties supported the lightning-fast passage of the bill, which imposes fines on individuals and the Amalgamated Transit Union local if they didn't heed the back-to-work order.

With the bill passed, the transit system sputtered to life by late Sunday afternoon and was expected at full strength by Monday's commuter rush begins - a welcome relief to the 1.5 million people who use transit weekdays.

"It's good news, good to hear that," said John Keller, who otherwise faced a 75-minute walk to work Monday.

The city was caught flat-footed when the transit workers walked out with barely any notice at midnight Friday night after rejecting a tentative contract reached a week ago by almost two-thirds of those voting. The strike stranded thousands of people Friday night and again on Saturday.

"It's been much more difficult to get anywhere - a lot more walking and calling on people to drive us around," said another pedestrian, Michael Goncalves. "It will be a lot easier (now) to get to school."

It appeared the 3,000 maintenance workers were angry at what they saw as a possible loss of jobs due to contracting out of their work, something the transit commission denied was happening.

The union had said it could not provide a promised 48 hours notice of the strike because it feared for the safety of members at the hands of irate transit users.

Opposition Leader John Tory lambasted union leaders for what he called the "irresponsible" and "selfish" walkout. Commuters and rank-and-file transit workers deserved an apology from them, he said.

"The average operator and driver would not have found it reasonable to have started the strike the way it was started - without consideration to the safety of the travelling public," Tory said.

"It may be up to them to take some of their leadership out in the back and give them a horsewhipping."

Mediated talks on Saturday produced no settlement on the issues, which will be subject under the legislation to binding arbitration.

The TTC and each of its unions were given five days to agree on a mediator-arbitrator or have one appointed by the provincial government.

Labour Minister Brad Duguid, who called public transit the "backbone" and "lifeblood" of Toronto, was careful to say the Liberal government respected the collective bargaining process.

"This is a one-off situation; it's a unique circumstance - one-and-a-half million transit riders that have an incredible impact on our economy, on the environment, and simply on the health and safety of Torontonians," he said.

"We will continue to urge all parties in all negotiations to reach their agreements at the table."
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Old April 28th, 2008, 11:27 AM   #775
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On the plus side, this may cause Mr. Miller to resign as mayor.
You seem to be pretty oblivious to the FACT that Miller is one of the most pro-transit mayors we could possibly get!

Also, how do you make a connection between the strike and Miller's capacity as Mayor? Miller didn't cause the strike at all.

As long as Bob Kinnear is publicly executed, live on CITY TV, with Miller or Giambrone throwing the switch, everybody will be happy and Miller can be guaranteed a 3rd term.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 02:57 PM   #776
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Which part of overtime do you not understand, and what lawsuits are you referring to? Do you know that not paying overtime also leads to lawsuits? Do you know that you are bitching about a mere TWO collectors out of the whole army that is the TTC staff? Do you know how stupid you look digging into so much detail over all this when it is really just a simple matter of overtime pay being paid largely by the farebox - not public dollars as you mistakenly assumed. Even if it were public dollars, the TTC is legally required to pay these people the overtime they've clocked. Have you ever heard of labour laws? Why are you even talking about lawsuits when you clearly do not understand a thing about laws?
Please run some numbers and show how and why a collector can earn 100k based on OT. I really wonder why they'd need to put in so much OT considering the subway only operates a set number of hours per day. I don't see why people should be complacent when $200k of salary money that is funded by taxpayers should be ignored. The whole purpose of the public disclosure is for the public to ask these questions, and at such a large amount, why should everyone ignore and live on when the TTC is clearly cash-strapped and cost-savings should be sought? If they're actually making money to fund their operations, then the $200k would not matter so much then, would it?

In fact, I can foresee a lot of discrimination lawsuits coming given this distorted view to salaries.

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1. It is not their tax dollars. 2. Like I keep telling you, it is called overtime. Your solicitor there is not clocking major overtime for said salary. Station collector is. Are you seeing a difference? It's a big difference.
How do you know solicitors don't work long hours and clocking a lot of OT? Are you saying TTC Station Collectors work so much more OT than the rest of the industry to justify a pay at the same level as a highly-educated solicitor? Then you should show some statistics showing how long they work. I'd love to see just how hard-working they are to deserve that wage.


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Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
Ever heard of "white collar" and "blue collar"? No, of course not, just like you've never heard of labour laws
I've never heard of a low-skilled Station Collector earning the wage of a high-skilled professional worker. Ever heard of economic equilibrium and value for money?

It's a great deal that these blue collar workers are getting white collar salaries. AWful for the taxpayer who ultimately foots the bill.

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Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
There's more to it than that, but that's irrelevant, the point is that Project Managers and other professions get more money without the same level of overtime. Also, evident by your dramatic and exciting description of the job's responsibilities there, it is clearly a job people strive for to obtain [/sarcasm]. Not the most satisfying work, that's what post-secondary is supposed to lead to, not just higher pay (this is nothing new, pretty basic stuff here).
Let's see some OT statistics because I don't believe that OT can suddenly make a Station Collector's wage jump twofold from a reasonable amount given the skillset requirements. Lawyers, for example, charge extraordinary rates for their work, yet we see a strange equilibrium between their extraordinary chargeout amounts with your OT-laden Station Collectors. That gap still cannot be explained beyond hypothetical conjecture, rather than some solid facts.

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Well, I suggest you educate yourself, because you are proving my point when you state there's only TWO.... TWO collectors! OMG, it's an ambush!!! Do you know how many of these people are on TTC staff? No, you don't, because you need to educate yourself.
Yet Toronto is so happy that the TTC is so well funded that it can do away with $200k of possibly excessive and wasteful spending. No wonder the city's finances are in such a dire state. A few bleeds everywhere leads to a very bad situation. Does that mean 200 healthy friends can justify poisioning 1? Heck, 99.5% of my friends are still healthy!

The key is to rid the city or people who manage finances from an idiot's point of view, thinking problems can be let loose because they're supposedly 'small'. That'll solve a huge part of the budget problems already. If the pockets are full of cash, then perhaps 'small' doesn't matter. Now is Toronto or the TTC that flushed with full pockets?
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Old April 28th, 2008, 04:42 PM   #777
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Please run some numbers and show how and why a collector can earn 100k based on OT. I really wonder why they'd need to put in so much OT considering the subway only operates a set number of hours per day. I don't see why people should be complacent when $200k of salary money that is funded by taxpayers should be ignored. The whole purpose of the public disclosure is for the public to ask these questions, and at such a large amount, why should everyone ignore and live on when the TTC is clearly cash-strapped and cost-savings should be sought? If they're actually making money to fund their operations, then the $200k would not matter so much then, would it?
It is not funded by taxpayer dollars, it is funded by the farebox.

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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
In fact, I can foresee a lot of discrimination lawsuits coming given this distorted view to salaries.
Discrimination? You'll have to elaborate on that, I don't see how gender, race, sexual-orientation, or anything else enters into the equation.


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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
How do you know solicitors don't work long hours and clocking a lot of OT? Are you saying TTC Station Collectors work so much more OT than the rest of the industry to justify a pay at the same level as a highly-educated solicitor? Then you should show some statistics showing how long they work. I'd love to see just how hard-working they are to deserve that wage.
Solicitors make commissions, don't they? Paid by the work they produce (or cases they win). They aren't paid by the hour. They're white-collar. This is what I mean when you just don't get it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I've never heard of a low-skilled Station Collector earning the wage of a high-skilled professional worker. Ever heard of economic equilibrium and value for money?

It's a great deal that these blue collar workers are getting white collar salaries. AWful for the taxpayer who ultimately foots the bill.
It is not funded by taxpayer dollars, it is funded by the farebox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Let's see some OT statistics because I don't believe that OT can suddenly make a Station Collector's wage jump twofold from a reasonable amount given the skillset requirements. Lawyers, for example, charge extraordinary rates for their work, yet we see a strange equilibrium between their extraordinary chargeout amounts with your OT-laden Station Collectors. That gap still cannot be explained beyond hypothetical conjecture, rather than some solid facts.
The OT amounts are extraordinary, everybody admits that, as I have in my previous posts. I said that the real question is why is such OT being clocked. The salary paid is less important than the time clocked in these two cases, because it is a lot of OT.


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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Yet Toronto is so happy that the TTC is so well funded that it can do away with $200k of possibly excessive and wasteful spending. No wonder the city's finances are in such a dire state.
It is not funded by taxpayer dollars (thus, does not impact city finances), it is funded by the farebox.

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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The key is to rid the city or people who manage finances from an idiot's point of view, thinking problems can be let loose because they're supposedly 'small'. That'll solve a huge part of the budget problems already. If the pockets are full of cash, then perhaps 'small' doesn't matter. Now is Toronto or the TTC that flushed with full pockets?
It is not funded by taxpayer dollars, it is funded by the farebox.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 05:27 PM   #778
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Posted that before I saw Miller's comments on the issue. And while I can't say I agree with everything Miller does, I think he would look good in the eyes of everyone, supporters and critics, if he takes serious action against this.

See my thread about putting Kinnear behind bars in the Toronto forum.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 05:31 PM   #779
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On a separate issue, I did ask a long time back how many services the Toronto Subway ran per day, but all I got back was a bit of flack ... this sort of data must be available somewhere?

I also wondered about Toronto's streetcar system ... i.e., how many services/weekday does it run ?
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Old April 28th, 2008, 05:50 PM   #780
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On a separate issue, I did ask a long time back how many services the Toronto Subway ran per day, but all I got back was a bit of flack ... this sort of data must be available somewhere?

I also wondered about Toronto's streetcar system ... i.e., how many services/weekday does it run ?
I never saw this post, but am happy to link you the information:

This PDF File is a list of all current subway, streetcar, and bus operating details from the TTC.
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