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Old April 28th, 2008, 06:01 PM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
Posted that before I saw Miller's comments on the issue. And while I can't say I agree with everything Miller does, I think he would look good in the eyes of everyone, supporters and critics, if he takes serious action against this.
It is reported he's taken action to open the floor to a debate on declaring TTC an essential service THIS WEEK.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 06:15 PM   #782
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thanks

Just deviating a little, you posted this in another thread not so long back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ
Toronto's commuter trains also see long trains, some are 12 cars long, and double decker too, the longest commuter trains in North America and surely the highest capacity, too. Toronto's commuter trains are massive high capacity, carrying 5,000 people PER TRAIN.
We are regularly running 6-car trains with 1,000 people or more on them, and they're not double decker. They're an embarassment to eveyone, because they're hopelessly overloaded, and indications are that in 15 or 20 years they'll be almost half as crowded again (although that is a physical impossibility, since people can't get on the trains now because they're so crowded).

The question I have for you is this: why are they running 1 train with 5,000 people on it when you could run, say, 5 with 1,000 each? Surely loading 5,000 people onto a train is no small matter ... and getting them off again in the outskirts, indeed as well. 5 trains constitutes a service of kinds ... I do have an on-line Canadian railway atlas and it suggests that (compared to here) the regional rail frequency isn't really all that great. I know it takes more infrastructure and more staff to run more trains, but that sounds like a pretty crowded train!
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Old April 28th, 2008, 06:24 PM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
thanks

Just deviating a little, you posted this in another thread not so long back:



We are regularly running 6-car trains with 1,000 people or more on them, and they're not double decker. They're an embarassment to eveyone, because they're hopelessly overloaded, and indications are that in 15 or 20 years they'll be almost half as crowded again (although that is a physical impossibility, since people can't get on the trains now because they're so crowded).

The question I have for you is this: why are they running 1 train with 5,000 people on it when you could run, say, 5 with 1,000 each? Surely loading 5,000 people onto a train is no small matter ... and getting them off again in the outskirts, indeed as well. 5 trains constitutes a service of kinds ... I do have an on-line Canadian railway atlas and it suggests that (compared to here) the regional rail frequency isn't really all that great. I know it takes more infrastructure and more staff to run more trains, but that sounds like a pretty crowded train!
The commuter network is actually at capacity, either because of limitations due to the signalling infrastructure, track space (some lines are single-tracked, double-track projects are in the pipe and some under construction currently, as are some triple-track projects too), time slots available from the owner of the corridor (which in the commuter network, it is almost all owned by freight companies), fleet availability, and space at Union Station, where 7 commuter lines converge and there is a lack of space here.

The busier lines are running 12-car trains at 10 (Lakeshore West Line) or 15-20 (Milton Line) minute headways
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Old April 28th, 2008, 07:18 PM   #784
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Thanks for that ... and for the PDF file, which is very interesting, but requires a bit of digesting ....

The map I have (from the source I mentioned) shows only 6 trains per day to Milton, and none on Saturdays & Sundays : 52 minutes from central Toronto

If by Lakeshore West you mean Oakville/ Burlington/ Hamilton, only 30 trains per day to Oakville, 26 to Burlington, & 3 to Hamilton (and none beyond Oakville on Weekends). My source may be outdated (I printed them off!) but that's what it says, which isn't a great service frequency compared to equivalent distances/travel times here ... surely, at least on the Milton line, you're not fighting freight traffic?

I guess these lines are mainly handling "commuter" traffic (i.e. in to town to work and out again), but wouldn't more trains with less on board generate a greater spread of traffic?

Thanks again for the link ...

Last edited by Yardmaster; April 28th, 2008 at 08:28 PM. Reason: It wasn't "Lakeville", it was "Oakville"
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Old April 28th, 2008, 08:00 PM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Thanks for that ... and for the PDF file, which is very interesting, but requires a bit of digesting ....

The map I have (from the source I mentioned) shows only 6 trains per day to Milton, and none on Saturdays & Sundays : 52 minutes from central Toronto

If by Lakeshore West you mean Oakville/ Burlington/ Hamilton, only 30 trains per day to Oakville, 26 to Burlington, & 3 to Hamilton (and none beyond Oakville on Weekends). My source may be outdated (I printed them off!) but that's what it says, which isn't a great service frequency compared to equivalent distances/travel times here ... surely, at least on the Milton line, you're not fighting freight traffic?

I guess these lines are mainly handling "commuter" traffic (i.e. in to town to work and out again), but wouldn't more trains with less on board generate a greater spread of traffic?

Thanks again for the link ...
No prob.

The Milton Line is actually one of the busiest freight corridors in the Toronto area because it is owned by a different operator than all the other GO Train Lines, except for the Uxbridge corridor, the only one GO owns itself, the rest of the network is owned by CN, the Milton Line is owned by CPR. CN has an alternate route at the city's north border that it can use to bypass the city, CPR only has the crosstown (a combination of the Galt Subdivision, which the Milton Line uses, and the Belleville Subdivision, which the Milton Line does not use but is a continuation of the so-called North Toronto Crosstown Corridor which is a combination of Galt (west end) and Belleville (central and east end) Subs).

The headways I gave were for rush hour only. Most GO Lines only operate trains during the rush hour because the freight companies don't like sharing their rails. CPR is the most hostile, making service expansion on Milton Line the most thorny, and paradoxically, the Milton Line has the highest demand in the network after The Lakeshore.

Service levels outside the rush hour on the Lakeshore Line is only once an hour. This will be changing though as it is looking like GO Transit is going to electrify this corridor, and to make that investment pay off will be running more trains more frequently. Not sure what the train lengths will be, but all day on weekdays they use 10 cars because demand warrants it (they used to run 6-car trains on this corridor during mid-day periods between the rush hours, and then switch those trains on to other corridors like Richmond Hill, which only needs 6-car trains during rush hour, while 10-car trains replace the 6-cars on Lakeshore for the rush). All-day service (except evenings) has been extended to Aldershot and an extension east of Oshawa to Bowmanville is coming in the foreseeable future (construction on Bowmanville Station is still a ways off, but there's the political will for it already in place, so it is just a matter of time). Not sure what the date on your printout is, but some improvements have been made since. GO has recently gotten the new locomotives, the 12-car trains are a brand new addition, the platforms have just been extended this year, and there's probably been other rolling stock added since your printout.
Schedules are online here if you're curious: http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/...tser.aspx?New=
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Last edited by TRZ; April 28th, 2008 at 08:43 PM. Reason: mirroring typo fixed in original quote by Yardmaster
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Old April 28th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #786
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Thanks, yes I'll correct the typo ... It would have helped if the map I was using showed freight-only lines as well, but it didn't.

Re your comments regarding CN & CPR above: we're fortunate here to have most of the freight running, not just on separate tracks, but on a separate gauge ... which has probably made the development of reasonably frequent regional services much easier.

Last edited by Yardmaster; April 28th, 2008 at 08:33 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 08:54 PM   #787
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Surprise Toronto Transit Strike!

Wouldn`t this thread be better served at some regional board instead of this one?
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Old April 28th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Thanks, yes I'll correct the typo ... It would have helped if the map I was using showed freight-only lines as well, but it didn't.

Re your comments regarding CN & CPR above: we're fortunate here to have most of the freight running, not just on separate tracks, but on a separate gauge ... which has probably made the development of reasonably frequent regional services much easier.
Most of the tracks in Toronto area are using for GO Transit except for the CPR MacTier Sub, the Belleville Sub (including the Belleville Don Branch), and the Steeles Corridor (I forget the subdivision's name). MacTier and Belleville may be getting GO service soon though, MacTier is currently being assessed, Belleville is more complicated but they're looking at it. There's also a stretch of track between Long Branch GO Station and Kipling GO Station (these two are on different lines), this stretch I believe is joint-ownership between the two railways. Other tracks not used are the Seaton Subdivison towards north Pickering area and the north-south corridor that crosses perpendicularly to the Galt Sub near Milton GO Station, running between Guelph and Burlington, and the trackage between Streetsville GO Station and Brampton GO Station (again, these are on different lines. CPR no longer uses this track, I've heard they are decommissioning it, hopefully they keep the tracks, I think they'd be valuable later for a loop line around inner 905 region).

I do wish there were separation between commuter and freight in the region but that is probably not going to happen, although it theorhetically could between Pickering and Burlington since alternate routes are available by-pass that corridor if industry moves out of it (and between Pickering and Clarkson, a significant amount of industry is by and large gone, but Oakville is still very active being a big player in the auto sector). The Newmarket Subdivision south of Steeles is discontinued for freight, Uxbridge sub is owned by GO, Richmond Hill corridor is probably no longer used south of Steeles either. I'd like to see the Weston Subdivision used by the Georgetown Line discontinued for freight between Bramalea and Union since there's a by-pass via Steeles, but unfortunately that is no likely to happen because of that subdivision passing by the airport district, which still has plenty industrial lands active in the area. Again, the same kind of irony, the lower-demand corridors of Richmond Hill, Stouffville and Barrie are generally freight-traffic free inside Toronto, but the highest demand corridors along the CPR, via the airport area, and via Oakville, are the corridors with the highest ridership and we can't get rid of freight traffic from these areas.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 11:14 PM   #789
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Pickering to Burlington looks like a good start to me, but as I said, my map (it's September 2006) doesn't actually show the freight lines ...
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Old April 29th, 2008, 05:42 AM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Surprise Toronto Transit Strike!

Wouldn`t this thread be better served at some regional board instead of this one?
It is useful for notifying prospective tourists to the city about the strike. Now they know that having working public transit in city is not guaranteed.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 05:47 AM   #791
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Quote:
TTC Union Leader Offers No Apology
Up Next: The Essential Services Question
Matthew Coutts, Canwest News Service, Global News
Published: Monday, April 28, 2008

Published: Monday, April 28, 2008
TORONTO — Union boss Bob Kinnear offered no apologies Monday morning, as regular public transit service resumed following a strike that stranded Torontonians over the weekend, saying TTC chairman Adam Giambrone was to blame for not properly warning the city about the possibility of job action.

Kinnear said Amalgamated Transit Union 113 executives were “very responsible” by making it clear that a deal struck last weekend to avoid strike action was only a tentative agreement that still needed to be approved by union members. He blamed Giambrone for trying to minimize the threat to the public by assuming the deal approved by union leaders would be accepted.

-----
Watch Team Coverage of the Strike Fallout here.
------

A TTC street car driver carries his cash box as he prepares to resume his duties, after an emergency meeting of Ontario's Legislative Assembly, which passed a 'back to work' legislation to force TTC workers to end their strike, just over 36 hours after they started their industrial action.
Photograph by : CNS

Apology sought from transit union

Union members went on strike Saturday at 12:01 a.m. after giving less than two hours notice, leaving riders stranded across the city, many of them young partygoers unable to afford cabs home.

The transit union was forced back to work Sunday evening after the province passed emergency legislation.

Kinnear defended his role as union leader, saying he has the support of members and the entire executive board.

“It’s very difficult to negotiate for 9,000 people,” he told CBC Newsworld, adding ATU 113 members are from a diverse workforce.

He rejected the idea of making the TTC an essential service, or even limiting the union’s strike opportunities.

“We believe in the right to strike,” he said. “The city needs the TTC, whether we’re an essential service or not.”

Kinnear said he would be spending the day formulating an argument to get the best deal possible through arbitration.

National Post


©Canwest News Service 2008
Source: Global Ontario/CanWest
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Old April 29th, 2008, 08:51 AM   #792
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His arrogance and incompetence and inability to read the environment is astounding. Most useless, irresponsible, and disrespectful person in a powerful position EVER. He can't even acknowledge the breaking of the 48 notice promise. He should stay away from the media, it is extremely inflammatory to the public and he will get killed by someone. He's lucky I'm overseas, I'D kill this ******.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 08:55 AM   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Pickering to Burlington looks like a good start to me, but as I said, my map (it's September 2006) doesn't actually show the freight lines ...
Like I said though, there's no way to get freight trains out of the Oakville area.

Google Maps shows the freight lines. It has a sub-option for highlighting rail lines. Toronto's has an error where it treats the subway as a railway rather than the separate subway category, but it shows all the freight lines.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 10:17 AM   #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
His arrogance and incompetence and inability to read the environment is astounding. Most useless, irresponsible, and disrespectful person in a powerful position EVER. He can't even acknowledge the breaking of the 48 notice promise. He should stay away from the media, it is extremely inflammatory to the public and he will get killed by someone. He's lucky I'm overseas, I'D kill this ******.
As he would say: Catch me if you can

I would prefer not to kill him, but to torture him. I want to try to use someone in Canada for medicing testing purposes, replace those poor animals who have to suffer for humans. By using him, our results would also be more accurate =) He's a perfect candidate!
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Old April 29th, 2008, 10:43 AM   #795
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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
As he would say: Catch me if you can

I would prefer not to kill him, but to torture him. I want to try to use someone in Canada for medicing testing purposes, replace those poor animals who have to suffer for humans. By using him, our results would also be more accurate =) He's a perfect candidate!
Just put him back on bus driving duty with a big nametag.

Cheers, m
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Old April 29th, 2008, 01:28 PM   #796
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Just put him back on bus driving duty with a big nametag.

Cheers, m
Or send him back to the Janitorial crew where he started, confine him to an eternity at the Bloor-Yonge washroom
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 08:40 PM   #797
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Everything you need to know about TTC strikes (apologies to those that have already seen it in the Toronto section)
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Old June 9th, 2008, 07:13 PM   #798
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Mock-up of the new Next Generation subway cars in Toronto

What do you think?



Photos by imrandom of CPTDB.ca
http://ryansttcphotos.webng.com/toro...ketmockup.html
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Old June 9th, 2008, 07:18 PM   #799
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Old Train Interiors (which hasn't really changed since the 1960s)

T1 1996


H6 1987


H5 1977


H4 1972-1975


H1 1965


M1 1962
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Old June 9th, 2008, 07:19 PM   #800
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Mock-up of the new Next Generation subway cars in Toronto

What do you think?
I think it would be far more intelligible if you would translate the Canuck word "mockup". What does it mean, in standard English?
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