daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 24th, 2008, 03:29 AM   #821
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENTROBATE54 View Post
Some people just take the subway for granted, they think it'll always be there at their disposal. I'm willing to bet those stranded folk didn't take the advance notice seriously.
People that see the notice and don't take it seriously are retards that deserve to be stranded (and they're actually not stranded anyway, there is still service, albeit poorer service).
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 24th, 2008, 04:07 AM   #822
sonysnob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North York
Posts: 963
Likes (Received): 860

I don't know if this has been talked about, but I have to say, I really hope the TTC doesn't go through and build the Sheppard East LRT. The Sheppard Subway line may be a bit of a flop in current terms, but I think if it went further east it would really improve ridership. Beyond that, it seems like a westerly extension to Downsview would really be useful for the thousands that commute to York U.
__________________
Asphaltplanet.ca
sonysnob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2008, 04:16 AM   #823
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
I don't know if this has been talked about, but I have to say, I really hope the TTC doesn't go through and build the Sheppard East LRT. The Sheppard Subway line may be a bit of a flop in current terms, but I think if it went further east it would really improve ridership. Beyond that, it seems like a westerly extension to Downsview would really be useful for the thousands that commute to York U.
The projections for the line further east are very low. Only half of the minimum for a subway. The LRT may change this, but even if demand doubles the projections, LRT is still an approprate mode for the corridor.

As for Downsview, the problem with this one is that there would only be one stop between Sheppard/Yonge and Downsview, this creates a cost-benefit problem. Infrastructure that is this expensive needs frequent access points in order to yeild a viable ROI.
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2008, 09:50 AM   #824
trnstn
Citylicious
 
trnstn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 21
Likes (Received): 0

The Sheppard Subway would eventually extend to STC, but that's year's down the road. Same for the Western extension to Downsview, which only makes sense, because taking the bus to Yorkdale Mall is a pain in the behind.

But, it seems that the people up in Suburbia (promising to become more urban and density-like) call for an extension of the Spadina line all the way up to Vaughn
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/spadina_extension/welcome.htm

This is most likely to feed the massive Vaughn Mills mall, and to spur growth around the empty consumerist-factory, they need a subway for image purposes for sure.

The Sheppard Line right now has great potential, and it has been a very timely move towards greater mass transit use. All the development going on around the new stations are massive condo towers. Hopefully the gas stations that take up valuable corner land around Bayview Stn might disappear somehow, but I don't see that happening becuase of the 401 just metres away.
trnstn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2008, 03:07 AM   #825
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by trnstn View Post
The Sheppard Subway would eventually extend to STC, but that's year's down the road. Same for the Western extension to Downsview, which only makes sense, because taking the bus to Yorkdale Mall is a pain in the behind.
The western extension only makes sense from a network connectivity point of view; in reality, this is a low-demand stretch, and the transit that is used there is in large part on the GO Buses that use the 401. The TTC is probably right to suspect that this extension would not bring much benefit for the cost of the investment in question, at least not for a while. E-W connections will be available along Finch and Eglinton between the two subway lines as LRT in dedicated lanes. This makes the purpose Sheppard western extension would serve obsolete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trnstn View Post
But, it seems that the people up in Suburbia (promising to become more urban and density-like) call for an extension of the Spadina line all the way up to Vaughn
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/spadina_extension/welcome.htm

This is most likely to feed the massive Vaughn Mills mall, and to spur growth around the empty consumerist-factory, they need a subway for image purposes for sure.
Subways should not be built for image purposes. Metrolinx, it is rumoured, is thinking about neutering this extension at Steeles Ave., which would be EXCELLENT, because the 905 portion of this is an absurd waste of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trnstn View Post
The Sheppard Line right now has great potential, and it has been a very timely move towards greater mass transit use. All the development going on around the new stations are massive condo towers. Hopefully the gas stations that take up valuable corner land around Bayview Stn might disappear somehow, but I don't see that happening becuase of the 401 just metres away.
There's a big problem with a lot of the condo developments; the people moving into them cannot get to work by subway because they don't work in downtown.

We need to stop building subways in undeveloped areas with the hopes of spurring development while ignoring the underserviced and overcapacity but already developed and continuing to develop areas. It makes no sense. Why we still have no downtown relief line is the million dollar question. Screw Sheppard, it is not a priority and the subway should have been LRT instead from the get-go.
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2008, 03:57 AM   #826
DENTROBATE54
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brampton, ON
Posts: 687
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
The western extension only makes sense from a network connectivity point of view; in reality, this is a low-demand stretch, and the transit that is used there is in large part on the GO Buses that use the 401. The TTC is probably right to suspect that this extension would not bring much benefit for the cost of the investment in question, at least not for a while. E-W connections will be available along Finch and Eglinton between the two subway lines as LRT in dedicated lanes. This makes the purpose Sheppard western extension would serve obsolete.
It's an extreme waste of money to extend the "stubway" westward. For stop ratio to be within reason stops would have to exist at Senlac, Bathurst and Faywood. However the justification isn't there, even for the Bathurst stop with only a few thousand residents in the small catchment area from the 401 to West Don River valley.

The 84 bus is more than adequate for this area. It sickens me that these suburban areas are getting so much precedence over the adjoining downtown areas (South Etobicoke, Riverdale-Beaches). But anyway, if Finch West LRT is interconnected to the Sheppard East LRT line, that would form a continuous, uninterrupted crosstown service north of 401, making any need for the "stubway" minimal at best.

Quote:
Subways should not be built for image purposes. Metrolinx, it is rumoured, is thinking about neutering this extension at Steeles Ave., which would be EXCELLENT, because the 905 portion of this is an absurd waste of money.
That's good to hear (this coming from a man who resides near Hwy 7 ). VIVA's more than adequate to take over from this point. The Orange Line north of Steeles can trevass Steeles/Jane to Hwy 7/Woodstream in 20 mins. If only they'd extend VIVA to Bramalea City Centre, the demand there is a given, seeing how many people ride the 77 bus daily just to reach the Martin Grove interchange.

Quote:
There's a big problem with a lot of the condo developments; the people moving into them cannot get to work by subway because they don't work in downtown.
I've always said this, if you're going to fork out upwards of 300-500,000 for a condominium, you probably can afford a car. The turnover of condo owners using the "stubway" for instance is very marginal (around <20%) because if they work immediately near the following urban centres- NYCC, Yonge-Eglinton or downtown, it begins to be an inconvenient with having to transfer and await vehciles constantly.

Quote:
We need to stop building subways in undeveloped areas with the hopes of spurring development while ignoring the underserviced and overcapacity but already developed and continuing to develop areas. It makes no sense. Why we still have no downtown relief line is the million dollar question. Screw Sheppard, it is not a priority and the subway should have been LRT instead from the get-go.
The DRL is problematic because there's so much to serve, and excavating downtown streets is a million dollar endeavour, many, many millions.

Depending on where/where not you consider a suburb, I'm in agreeance with stopping the insane meandering of subways into suburbia, particularly YUS into the 905. YUS should stop at Steeles Ave to prevent overcapacity issues that would occur by Lawrence Stn, by when every seat on board a train will be occupied.

However some of the places deemed undeveloped nonetheless stand in the way of significant pockets of density that are virtually isolated from rapid transit services (Mimico, Leslieville, West Hill, Richview, Sherway, etc). It is very much in the realm of possibility to see to it, that if a chain of nodal areas can be linked together via a subway line, we make efforts to infill the gaps and make city-wide travel as convenient as possible.
DENTROBATE54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2008, 07:45 AM   #827
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENTROBATE54 View Post
The DRL is problematic because there's so much to serve, and excavating downtown streets is a million dollar endeavour, many, many millions.
Billions actually. It is certainly expensive, but this is why a two-pronged approach where a downtown network of streetcars, separated from traffic where space permits or where transit malls are feasable/sustainable, will have to link the areas from the DRL other areas. Some of the ROWs that might be available include a Shaw/Ossington (via Dundas) line from Ossington Station to Dufferin Loop (563 Ossington?), and the 565 Parliament already proposed in a waterfront EA by the TTC from Castlefrank Station down to Queen's Quay (and I think the TTC wants to run it to Union Station, it'd be like a mirror of the 510 Spadina, although some cars might use the new Cherry loop that will be complete next year). Other lines that could be put into work based on some existing infrastructure include Bay St. and Church St., which could be rather useful in lending support to the southern Yonge Subway; a Church car could run to Rosedale subway (a new bay at the southern edge of the platform built into the existing road overpass), and the Bay car could run through Lower Bay's south platform, perhaps?
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2008, 03:50 PM   #828
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,913
Likes (Received): 18176

Eglinton subway not in cards: Miller
But only paperwork in the way of Spadina extension, Mayor says

26 July 2008
National Post

Government officials signalled yesterday that construction will soon start on the anticipated Spadina subway extension, even as the Mayor dismissed a new push to build a subway along Eglinton Avenue.

"You should build subways in extremely dense neighbourhoods where you have two-way traffic because there are offices and people living ... you don't build subways where there's not that ridership and it's not projected to be" along Eglinton, Mayor David Miller said yesterday. "And there isn't the money, it's that simple."

Toronto's ambitious Transit City project, which is planning for new light rail lines across the city, includes a light rail route along Eglinton that would extend from the airport to Kennedy, and run underground in a a 10-kilometre tunnel between Laird Drive and Keele Street.

But area city councillors and Metrolinx, the province's GTA transportation agency, believe Eglinton may in fact warrant a subway. Metrolinx chairman Rob MacIsaac said the agency has not settled on the subway as the best route, but preliminary ridership results suggest it could use something more than a Light Rail Transit. The LRT is projected to cost $2.24-billion, which Mr. Miller says is about $4-billion less than the cost of a subway.

Councillor Karen Stintz (Eglinton-Lawrence) says it would be "smart and strategic" to piggyback on the Spadina extension and build a subway under Eglinton, which she insists has the "ridership potential."

"Once we get the equipment, once we get the design, once we get the momentum, the more track you build it reduces our kilometre cost per track," said Ms. Stintz, who attended an announcement for a new busway in the north end of the city.

Representatives from all three levels of government were at York University yesterday to boast about the new York University Busway, which will run on six kilometres of dedicated bus lanes from Downsview subway station to the university. Officials touted it as a cheaper, faster-to-complete project that will ease growing congestion in the corridor during the seven years it will take to build the subway into York Region.

The federal and provincial governments have each pitched in $9.7-million, and the city will pay $18.4-million to build the system, which is supposed to be ready in time for the 2009/2010 school year.

"A busway is an incredibly important piece of transit infrastructure. Most of this will be permanent," said Mr. Miller, who had hoped to have it up and running by this fall.

He said only paperwork stands in the way of the Spadina extension, which appears to be set to break ground in September.

"When they're ready to go, the Government of Canada has made its commitment. We pay on invoices for work done," said Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, who made yesterday's busway announcement.

"Constructing subways doesn't happen overnight," added George Smitherman, Ontario Minister of Energy and Infrastructure. "We made a good piece of progress here today, with the bigger one to come very soon."
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 04:41 AM   #829
vancouverite/to'er
Registered User
 
vancouverite/to'er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,015
Likes (Received): 24

The LRT better be fast..
vancouverite/to'er no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 08:10 AM   #830
yin_yang
Registered User
 
yin_yang's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,834
Likes (Received): 80

dumb shit, like where the extension is being built will satisfy his criteria any more than eglinton. in fact, you could argue that eglinton is much more legitimate than the spadina extension, save for york university and the lower-income pockets up north.
yin_yang no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 08:13 AM   #831
DENTROBATE54
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brampton, ON
Posts: 687
Likes (Received): 1

I take whatever David Miller, or any politician for that matter, has to say concerning transit expansion with an extreme grain of salt. Only actual urban planners/civil engineers have in-depth know-how to whether Eglinton's gonna be a success. The Spadina extension is beyond futile (especially considering the new express busway lanes being built between Downsview and the campus) but we're getting it regardless so why complain, you know.

I just hope Eglinton-done-right becomes a top priority; and doesn't get lost in the shuffle when competing with Transfer City, the DRL, more LRV streetcar lines, SRT upgrade/extension, Cloverdale extension, 2 Hwy 7 extensions, etc. for funding and support.
DENTROBATE54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2008, 05:36 AM   #832
vancouverite/to'er
Registered User
 
vancouverite/to'er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,015
Likes (Received): 24

Damn right! I've bitched about this vertabim!!
vancouverite/to'er no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2008, 07:35 AM   #833
ssiguy2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 5,404
Likes (Received): 857

What/where is the Cloverdale extention?
ssiguy2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2008, 08:54 AM   #834
DENTROBATE54
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brampton, ON
Posts: 687
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
What/where is the Cloverdale extention?
It's a piece of shit idea to extend the Bloor subway line just one stop over, further west to a nondescript cubbyhole near a direlect mall just because some land parcel was "donated" to the TTC (is my seething contempt for this plan getting through to you yet? ). This station would not be remotely close to its namesake shopping centre nor the residential community on the northwest side of Hwy 427 (I'd like to wager how many walk-ins such a station locale as this could fetch? )

However extending the line, south to Sherway Gdns would result in better stop placements at Shorncliffe (where Shorncliffe, Martin Grove and East Mall buses could terminate), a possible at-grade station near North Queen and East Mall (a lot of adjacent properties there are deindustrializing, hence makes for future prime real estate) and of course Sherway Gdns. I'd hope for a subway connection there like what's at the Eaton Centre, where one can literally walk right off the subway and into the mall (in winter this will become very handy ).
DENTROBATE54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #835
Longershanks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,214
Likes (Received): 2

why doesn't the TTC develop real estate above many of its stations that are currently just aluminium shacks?
Longershanks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2008, 04:22 AM   #836
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,913
Likes (Received): 18176

^ I think that question has been asked over and over again over the years. They should have at least the air rights above the station that they can sell?
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2008, 04:47 AM   #837
urbanfan89
Registered User
 
urbanfan89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,502
Likes (Received): 67

They can always do what Hong Kong MTR did. But there's a lot more legal issues for a government agency to enter private business over here.
urbanfan89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2008, 11:02 PM   #838
ericlewis91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 100
Likes (Received): 9

why not extend it to vaughan mills..like canadas wonderland area...that would help the 400s
ericlewis91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #839
Homer J. Simpson
Registered User
 
Homer J. Simpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sector 7-G
Posts: 2,465
Likes (Received): 18

^How about we build a popsicle stick skyscraper while we are at it?

Any money and time being spend on subways should be done to best serve the most amount of people. By building in York Region, this objective would not be achieved.
Homer J. Simpson no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2008, 03:14 AM   #840
DENTROBATE54
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brampton, ON
Posts: 687
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericlewis91 View Post
why not extend it to vaughan mills..like canadas wonderland area...that would help the 400s
This is precisely the slippery slope we're opening ourselves up to by extending the YUS line any further north than York University. There'll always be these: "why not extend it just a little bit further" remarks until we have a line extending upto Lake Simcoe. Sometimes we must just allow buses to take over.
DENTROBATE54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
canada, ontario, toronto

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium