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Old September 10th, 2009, 04:37 PM   #921
JustinB
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Oh god. Now it's creeped over here from Urban Toronto. You copied this word, for word from a post on Urban Toronto! That post was from January! Why post this now?

http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=8201

I cannot believe Urban Toronto posters are such whiners, that they will actually resort to posting old threads from another board!

Last edited by JustinB; September 10th, 2009 at 05:24 PM.
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Old September 10th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #922
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Thousands more would ride the subway per hour if it went to SCC instead? LOL, that is completely out to lunch, Scarborough Centre is not downtown or North York Centre. And many people get to there from north of the 401 anyways

As for out at sheppard and meadowvale, ridership is not as low as the subway fanatics would have you believe. The Sheppard bus does not short turn until that intersection and buses can often be standing room only.

And to use my favorite line from the subway fanatics at UT, you can't expect the outer ends of a subway line to be at capacity, so why should that same standard be applied to a LRT?
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Old September 10th, 2009, 08:33 PM   #923
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It boggles the mind why people focus on only the technology, and the maximum capacity, rather than focusing on what the corridor NEEDS. The sheppard corridor does not need a subway with 1km spacing. It needs a surface line which can build up the demand enough to justify a subway in the future.

This applies to ALL advocates, not just subway advocates.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 01:43 PM   #924
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Looks like a few words at the beginning have been chopped off by the editor :

Get relief line back on track
16 September 2009
National Post

rs a supplementary transit route linking downtown Toronto with its suburbs has been talked about, and forgotten. The need for such a line, called the Downtown Relief Line, or DRL, has been recognized for as long as Toronto has had a subway network.

Its first incarnation was the Queen subway, which was approved in 1946, but never built due to funding and politics. The TTC and the city continued to ponder a Queen subway, with a northeast terminus as far as Don Mills Road and Eglinton Avenue, until as late as 1974. In the 1980s, the City's "Network 2011" proposal included a Downtown Rapid Transit corridor.

The corridor would run east-west through the downtown core (Queen Street or further south), and from the east end of downtown extend northeast through the fairly dense Thorncliffe Park area.

Options for the DRL could be explored, including transit hubs at the eastern and western ends of the line connected to GO Transit, and the subway and light rail networks. Metrolinx, the provincial agency responsible for Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area regional transportation, has included the DRL in its Regional Transportation Plan. At its peak in 2031, the DRL is projected by Metrolinx to carry as many as 17,500 riders in the busiest hour at the busiest point.

The DRL positively impacts at least half the subway network, particularly the Yonge and Danforth subways. Bloor-Yonge Station, the most congested junction in the system, would receive substantial relief from the DRL, as would the busiest parts of the streetcar network, particularly the King Street service, and Queen Street services as well.

The proposed Transit City light rail system (particularly the Don Mills line, and possibly the Eglinton-Crosstown line) as well as GO rail services will also benefit in varying degrees from the DRL.

The economic incentive in relation to the Yonge North Subway Extension is particularly striking. The Yonge extension creates complex spin-off needs that would be unnecessary expenses with the DRL. It would cost about $2-billion to increase capacity on the existing subway system if the DRL is not built, which is telling to how much suffering (for riders and taxpayers alike) can be avoided by building the DRL.

As the city's increasing transportation demands need to primarily be accommodated by public transit, the TTC's ability to accommodate the growing demands, both from Toronto and surrounding 905 communities, with attractive service that people would choose over their cars, is essential to avoid worsening gridlock.

Metrolinx has identified the DRL as a line of "regional significance," and the TTC has recognized the importance of the corridor with a study starting in the fall. However, the City of Toronto Official Plan has yet to follow suit. As the Official Plan is the city's comprehensive, governing planning document, the omission of the DRL is significant, and will require an Official Plan amendment to correct. Today I will ask the Planning and Growth Management Committee to do exactly that.

The Official Plan supports a sustainable approach to city building, and so does the DRL. The DRL alleviates the most stressed parts of the subway, streetcar and GO rail networks. It ensures attractive service quality by improving system reliability, alleviating crowding, and boosting the system's ability to cope with major disruptions.

For decades, the Yonge subway has been counterbalanced in the west by the University-Spadina subway, but has never had an equivalent in the east, which is overdue. The problem is not restricted to south of Bloor Street either, as the Yonge subway is overcapacity from as far north as Davisville currently, and ridership is growing annually.

Growth is coming whether Toronto and the surrounding region has the transit capacity to absorb that growth or not. The region needs the DRL. - Michael Thompson is Toronto City Councillor for Ward 37, Scarborough Centre
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 02:58 AM   #925
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Yet another embarassment for the TTC. Cutting corners to get the job done wrong!


Quote:
Mind the map? TTC didn't


Sep 22, 2009 04:30 AM
Jesse McLean
Staff Reporter



TTC maps will not show the way Maps at some downtown TTC subway stations seem to have left out major tourist attractions and contain several typos.

Some of the examples of errors and omissions on a TTC map include: 1. The Gardiner Expressway misspelled as "Gardner"; 2. City Hall not listed; and 3. CN Tower not listed.

The CN Tower is a 10-minute jaunt from St. Andrew subway station. But a new TTC map posted at the station doesn't show that.

According to the map, the Toronto landmark doesn't exist. Neither does the Rogers Centre or City Hall.

The maps, intended to show transit users what city sites are nearby, have been raising eyebrows since they started to appear three weeks ago.

The St. Andrew edition also has several glaring typos. The Gardiner Expressway is listed as the "Gardner," and the Toronto Eaton Centre is incorrectly dubbed the "Eaton's Centre."

"It's unacceptable," said Mitchell Kosny, director of the school of urban and regional planning at Ryerson University. "I wouldn't even accept work from my students – I wouldn't even look at it – if it had those types of errors."

The maps will be taken down and redone, said transit chair Adam Giambrone.

"Part of the issue is there is no one who oversees map creation ... This time, I'll see the maps before they go up," he said, adding that he only saw the graphic for Sherbourne station before the maps were released.

He expects the corrected versions to be installed in late October. Many of the maps in the city's 69 stations hadn't been updated in years. The maps cost the city about $2,000.
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/698942
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 05:30 AM   #926
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Funny thing is that Vancouver's new transit maps mounted on bus poles don't list many attractions either... what's with this reoccurring theme...
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Old September 24th, 2009, 02:27 AM   #927
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Well the TTC couldn't even go 24 hours without another embarassing story.

TTC ridership is at an all-time high, yet the TTC has an $18 million shortfall this year ($80 million by 2010) and will likely be raising fares. How is it even possible that increased ridership leads to a shortfall? What financial models are they using to forecast their finances?

Is there any other metro in the world where ridership increases and the shortfall increases?!

Quote:
Pass popularity costs TTC

PHOTO
TTC chair Adam Giambrone says the transit commission will need an extra $80 million from the city in 2010.

Sep 23, 2009 04:30 AM
Paul Moloney
Tess Kalinowski
Staff Reporters


The TTC's success has helped create a $17.4 million deficit, a shortfall that could erode potential savings from the civic workers' strike.

Ridership is running at a record high, projected to hit 473 million rides this year, without even a recessionary dent. But revenue per passenger is lower because more people are buying cheaper, transferable Metropasses – at a loss to the fare box of about 3 cents a ride. Sales of discount senior and student fares are up as well.

Savings from the civic workers' strike may be used to offset the TTC shortfall. Preliminary figures presented to the budget committee yesterday show the 39-day summer walkout saved the city at least $20 million.

However, that number doesn't reflect costs or savings from the waste and water departments. The final tally will be presented to the executive committee on Oct. 2.

That tab will factor in additional strike costs, including extra security, legal fees for hiring outside lawyers and costs of trucking more garbage to landfill.

During the strike, it was suggested the savings could be used to lower the property tax increase for 2010.

That's looking less likely, given the $17.4 million shortfall the TTC faces by the end of the year. That amount includes a $2.3 million loss in advertising revenues.

The TTC had budgeted for $904 million in total revenue for the year. The shortfall will be discussed at tomorrow's commission meeting.

"They're saying you saved $20 million from the strike, but you throw in this other stuff and it kind of washes out, more or less," said Councillor Paul Ainslie, vice-chair of council's budget committee.

The TTC is being asked to cut back on spending immediately, by curtailing overtime, trimming discretionary spending and reviewing hiring needs. Officials say there are no plans to cut service, and Mayor David Miller has pledged not to raise fares in 2009, to spare people struggling with the recession.

The success of the Metropass stems from the fact it's cheaper than tokens, is transferable and can be purchased with Air Miles. Using it also makes it possible to get a federal tax credit, said Michael Roschlau, president of the Canadian Urban Transit Association. "That (revenue drop) could be the case where you're having a migration of people moving off of cash or tokens onto Metropasses, and taking more rides at a lower cost per ride."

Councillor Joe Mihevc, who reviews TTC budgets as part of the budget committee, confirmed that riders are now paying a lower average fare. The TTC has been taking in an average of $1.77 per trip. It had expected about $1.80. The loss of just 3 cents a ride makes a difference over millions of rides.

The TTC has only four sources of operating funds: the three levels of government and the fare box, said TTC chair Adam Giambrone.

The TTC will need an extra $80 million from the city next year, in addition to the $374 million in operating subsidies it received for 2009, to maintain service levels and pay for a few small programs such as more cleaners, he said.

It's too early to speculate on whether a fare hike will be considered next year, Giambrone said, referring that issue to the budget chief. But last year's experience shows the budget committee has the will to make operating subsidies a priority.

Budget chair Shelley Carroll said it's likely a hike will be considered.

"The Metropass has become a pretty attractive deal, which is essentially the problem. I think the TTC systemically has to look at whether or not their Metropass deal, as it stands, is sustainable.

"If they highlight that this is a challenge, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the commission is saying, `Then run us some models.' It's up to the commission to decide whether or not they want to propose a different rate."

Some people believe Miller blew it by committing to freeze ticket prices this year, because raising them next year could be difficult with an election looming.

"I'm pretty strong on steady fare increases. My research suggests the ridership does not fall off in any (significant) amount," said Jim Mars, who teaches transportation and urban planning at Ryerson University.

Although the city's poor suffer when fares rise, he said, "the TTC is still vastly an ordinary middle-class person's machine – it's not St. Louis or some place where only poor people ride the bus."

The TTC and GO are exceptions among Canadian transit systems, recovering well more than the average of 60 per cent of operating revenue from the fare box. In the U.S., riders typically pay only about 40 per cent, and in Europe the average is between 40 and 50 per cent.

GO, whose ridership also continues to rise, covered about 82 per cent of its costs through fares last year. And where Toronto froze fares in 2009, GO and most suburban transit agencies hiked them.

The record ridership increase is something to celebrate, said Miller, who proclaimed Car Free Day in Toronto yesterday.

"Our ridership is still up. I think that tells you that in the city, people use the TTC all day, not just to commute. If you live in Toronto, lots of people take transit. Why? Because we've got a great transit network."

With files from Vanessa Lu
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/699522


Follow the link for 306+ angry comments about this story. Mayor Miller has no idea.... the majority of people do not take the TTC because it is a great transit network... they take it because there is no other choice.

Quote:
Every morning

at Union there are 1 to 3 TTC workers sitting at one entrance watching people put fares into the farebox. Even if the TTC is unwilling to replace them with turnstiles, surely onmly one need sit there. Maybe the other 1 or 2 could grab a mop and do something. I'd also like to see Giambrone's expenses that he's charged to the TTC.

Submitted by CanadianBiker at 8:33 AM Wednesday, September 23 2009
Quote:
Where is the money going?

Nice. Blame the one affordable aspect of the TTC. This system makes me sick. Where is the money going? There is three bloody inadequate subway lines!

Submitted by piepants at 8:39 AM Wednesday, September 23 2009
Quote:
CRY ME A RIVER ADAM

I'm tired of the over crowed buses and smelly stations. The last fare increase was going to address these issues. It didnt. Another price grab for salaries. Just this morning coming to work, EVERY escalator I use was broken. I watch 3 senior TTC captains standing together to time check buses...THREE???? What's that cost? THE TTC IS PATHETIC...time for some real change over there. In Cancun Mexico, it cost a peso to get on the Bus...there fast, not over crowded and cheap! THIS BETTER NOT BE SPIN FOR MORE MONEY - DON"T EVEN THINK ABOUT RAISING FARES AGAIN GIAMBRONE!!!

Submitted by angelsmoke at 8:31 AM Wednesday, September 23 2009
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Old September 24th, 2009, 03:51 AM   #928
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Raise the fares, again??
A single trip that costs $2.75 CAD is pretty pricey already people aren't gonna wanna take it anymore because it's too expensive.

You can totally blame it on Miller. All he wants is the money
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Old September 24th, 2009, 04:06 AM   #929
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I'll take the TBMs when they're done with them.

I see these things on EBay all the time. I wonder why they can only use them once.
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Old September 24th, 2009, 05:47 AM   #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwdwone View Post
I'll take the TBMs when they're done with them.

I see these things on EBay all the time. I wonder why they can only use them once.
The TBMs are usually custom built based on the specifications of the tunnel (diameter, material/ground conditions being bored through) that make re-use difficult. The cutting teeth wear through quickly too needing to be replaced, again customized to the material. As a result the depriciation of the machines is quite high. They also take up quite a lot of room, so storing them would be quite costly. Unless a city had another similar project on hand it's usually cheaper to sell the unit once the project is done and purchase a new one later.
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Old September 24th, 2009, 06:39 AM   #931
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I just don't get why the gov't hasn't continued to fund public transport, I mean after NYC and mexico city, Toronto is the third most used public transport system in north America, yet it is decrepit and constantly rejected by all three levels of our government.

Why does the government pay for endless miles of congested highways, yet does not spend a penny for ANY public transit in Ontario?
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Old September 25th, 2009, 07:40 AM   #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexcheetah View Post
I just don't get why the gov't hasn't continued to fund public transport, I mean after NYC and mexico city, Toronto is the third most used public transport system in north America, yet it is decrepit and constantly rejected by all three levels of our government.

Why does the government pay for endless miles of congested highways, yet does not spend a penny for ANY public transit in Ontario?
The Provincial and Federal governments are putting some money up but they only want to provide capital funding (building new lines, buying new buses & trains) rather than operational funding.

Before 1994, the Ontario government provided 100% of TTC's capital fundings and 50% of operations funding (iirc).

Today the Ontario government is providing 33% of capital (with the city and Federal government expected to provide 33% respectively) and this is on a project by project basis, not an ongoing sustainable fund.

TTC operations are funded 25% by the city of Toronto and 75% by farebox revenues (iirc)

So the money is there ... it's just not going into daily operations.

Cheers, m
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Old September 25th, 2009, 07:40 AM   #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil View Post
The TBMs are usually custom built based on the specifications of the tunnel (diameter, material/ground conditions being bored through) that make re-use difficult. The cutting teeth wear through quickly too needing to be replaced, again customized to the material. As a result the depriciation of the machines is quite high. They also take up quite a lot of room, so storing them would be quite costly. Unless a city had another similar project on hand it's usually cheaper to sell the unit once the project is done and purchase a new one later.
in Kuala Lumpur they kept the TBM for their 2nd LRT line ... it sits outside the depot where no one except employees & visitors can see it

Cheers, m
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Old September 25th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #934
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Toronto hasn't had it so good for decades. The city was planning on paying one/third of the massive TransitCity 125 km LRT lines but then the province stated it would pay ALL of the city of Toronto's representing a $3 billion savings to the city. The lines are going ahead with even the feds finally coming up with funding.
Almost any city in the world would give their left nut to get 125km of LRT {all of which will be completed within a decade} and not have to pay a red cent. In terms of infastructure funding, Torontonians should be doing cartwheels.
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Old September 26th, 2009, 09:15 PM   #935
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funny, since it is you that is complaining that TC is a 'glorified streetcar'. I am currently in Paris, and having ridden T2 and T3, I am really looking forward to TC. It,s going to work just fine. And yes, LRT in ROW is pretty fast.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 02:11 AM   #936
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Quote:
TTC Smart Cards Still Years Away

2009/11/12 | Shawne McKeown, CityNews.ca


While some Toronto transit users yearn for outside-the-box thinking when it comes to the Red Rocket’s initiatives to save money and boost ridership, the TTC vice chair says the implementation of new, more efficient technology is still years away.

The TTC faces $100 million in red ink on its 2010 operating budget, forcing transit officials to propose a fare hike of up to a quarter on cash fares for the New Year. The increase would raise the cost of a Metropass to $126 from the current $109.

Nicole Winchester, the organizer of Friday’s planned TTC riders’ strike, believes an automated Smart Card fare system would save the commission cash and benefit riders.

“I’d like to see a lot of Chicago’s transit system replicated here,” she told CityNews.ca.

“I don’t want anyone to lose their job, but I mean at the same time staffing does cost a certain amount of money at the station and if people want service expanded there’s certainly people who could be out on the route as opposed to collecting tickets.”

Smart Cards Years Away

TTC Vice Chair and City Councillor Joe Mihevc said the TTC plans to use Smart Card technology, but implementing the new system is still about five years away.

He said the provincial government provided a $140 million “down payment” for the new transit technology, but that still isn’t enough for a full rollout. It’s not known yet where the rest of the money would come from.

“When we introduce it we’re going to do it right and we’re going to do it in conjunction with rear-door entry vehicles,” he told CityNews.ca. “There’s a lot of things you can do once you have the Smart Card technology.”

The passes could allow the TTC to play with ideas like offering slightly lower fares during off-peak times.

Riders can expect to see new fare machines in stations in the near future that would allow customers to swipe their credit card to purchase tokens or passes. Mihevc said other, more efficient cost-saving measures will also be rolled out soon.

“It’s everything from the supervisors that you see on the route … the back office staff that support the TTC, where can we have efficiencies there, where can we save money? We have to review and we do that on an annual basis, but this year we’re going to have to do that even more,” he said.

Fare Hike TTC's Only Option


When it comes to dealing with the massive hole in its 2010 operating budget, in the short term, Mihevc insists the fare hike is the only viable option to raise money as increased funding from the city and province isn’t available. Service cuts are also out of the question.

“We did that before in the 1990s when we were in the middle of a recession and what we found was that it takes a long time to bring those routes back,” Mihevc said.

“The whole system spirals down.”

Winchester, meanwhile, wants more public consultation before fare hikes are approved.

“When fare increases are announced or when things like this have to happen at least talk to the ridership about it, explain why it’s happening, explain why the only options are fare increases or service cuts, explain what the situation is and what other options have been considered and rejected so we can understand that,” she said.

Mihevc believes the TTC adequately explained the issues surrounding the proposed hike through the media.

On Winchester’s Facebook event page, thousands of people have confirmed they’ll be taking part in Friday’s TTC riders’ strike. She said some protesters also plan to attend the commission’s Nov. 17 meeting.

“I like the TTC, I love the TTC, that’s part of the reason I get upset,” she said.

“For the most part, the operators are great, it’s pretty good service, but it’s just we can’t keep paying for it.”

[email protected]
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...ill-years-away


Quote:
Rocket Talk: When's the TTC Going to Roll Out More Fare Collection Methods?

Have questions about the TTC? Rocket Talk is a regular Torontoist column, featuring TTC Chair Adam Giambrone and Director of Communications Brad Ross's answers to Torontoist readers' questions. Submit your questions to [email protected]!

Reader Travis Bird asks:

My question has to do with buying tickets/passes from the ticket booths in the subway stations. I find it very inconvenient that the TTC does not accept debit payments at the ticket booths when I need to buy my tokens. In order for me to get cash, I have to get off the TTC system, go to an ATM and then get back on to a bus/subway. Why not even have automated vending machines that users could use their credit cards or debit cards to buy fares (there used to be vending machines, but I haven't noticed them lately)? If I can buy gas at the pump with my debit card, there must be a way that I can buy TTC fares too.


TTC Chair Adam Giambrone says:

The TTC is behind other systems in its fare collection methods, but this might just end up being an advantage in an unexpected way.
Electronic payment technology is changing rapidly, and we are in a position to adopt the newest forms of it, which may supersede the current smart card systems in a number of cities. Effectively, we may be able to skip a generation of smartcards entirely and save many millions of dollars.

Bringing communications and electrical lines into stations is expensive, and is sometimes complicated in older stations by the presence of asbestos, which is time-consuming and expensive to remove. This is the reason, for example, why OneStop screens are not yet in some stations.

There will soon be new token and pass vending machines that will augment the small number of existing pass vending machines that accept credit and debit cards. Additionally, we will begin to replace the old token vending machines that only accept cash and are prone to breaking down. These machines will also be designed to sell pre-paid farecards, so when an open-payment/smartcard system comes, they will not become redundant.

While everyone wants a farecard system in place (including me), we don't want to be the last to adopt what is now old technology. The TTC, working with the Government of Ontario, is close to announcing an “open payment” system, where you tap your bank card or credit card directly at the turnstile. “Open payments” would use the new chip cards and allow passes (Metropass, weekly pass, etc.) to be loaded onto a credit or debit card through the internet or at new vending machines. Bear in mind that it took London nine years to fully roll out the Oyster card, so even at half that, full implementation of this system will be three to five years away. In the meantime, TTC is also rolling out an e-commerce function on the website, which will allow the purchase of passes and perhaps larger volumes of tokens or tickets, with delivery right to your door.
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By Torontoist in Culture on November 9, 2009 10:00 AM
http://torontoist.com/2009/11/rocket...7.php#comments

All talk and no action. While the TTC is handing $100,000 annually for token collectors and deeply in the red, the last of their concerns should be getting an "old technology". If other metros are using them, it's time to adopt smart cards as well. Smart card technology has been used effectively in Hong Kong since 1997 with very little change (if any at all)
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Last edited by Skybean; November 14th, 2009 at 02:20 AM.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 12:40 PM   #937
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This reminds me of Philadelphia. Still no metrocard/Oyster setup there either but they're moving toward it at a snail's pace saying things very much like what the TTC guy said about having any future system be more advanced once it does arrive.

Would a future TTC card be usable on all streetcars and GO trains as well?
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Old November 15th, 2009, 03:45 PM   #938
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funny, since it is you that is complaining that TC is a 'glorified streetcar'. I am currently in Paris, and having ridden T2 and T3, I am really looking forward to TC. It,s going to work just fine. And yes, LRT in ROW is pretty fast.
Have you seen the proposed stops for the Sheppard "LRT" line?
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #939
JustinB
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I have seen the stop spacing, and it's perfectly fine. Longer stop spacings are not known to attract ridership.

The spacing is greater than the current bus, yet will provide easy access for riders.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:41 PM   #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrify View Post
Have you seen the proposed stops for the Sheppard "LRT" line?
spacing is on par with simliar lines in other places.

people in this city whine and cry too much...
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