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Old August 5th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #1121
ssiguy2
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You want to hear about 3rd world?............Toronto will have the embarrasing honour of having the only International Airport on the planet connected to it's downtown by a DIESEL train. The train will not be particularily fast for this reason and will be a smoke creating monster along the route and a loud one to boot. It will also be damn expensive at about $25 one way and you won't even be able to get a transfer to get onto the real public transit system.

This is why there very little excitement and a lot of opposition to the line. A lod, polluting line that only the business people in the core will be able to afford to take as it is a tax right-off.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #1122
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The train will stop at Dundas West station to transfer people on to the Bloor-Danforth line, won't it?
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Old August 6th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #1123
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A diesel train? that's sad.

How long does it take to reach the city centre?
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Old August 6th, 2012, 02:37 AM   #1124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
You want to hear about 3rd world?............Toronto will have the embarrasing honour of having the only International Airport on the planet connected to it's downtown by a DIESEL train. The train will not be particularily fast for this reason and will be a smoke creating monster along the route and a loud one to boot. It will also be damn expensive at about $25 one way and you won't even be able to get a transfer to get onto the real public transit system.

This is why there very little excitement and a lot of opposition to the line. A lod, polluting line that only the business people in the core will be able to afford to take as it is a tax right-off.
Well certainly a better prize than the current toronto has the busiest airport that doesn't have an air rail link.

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A diesel train? that's sad.

How long does it take to reach the city centre?
It used to be called blue22 as it takes about 22min to get downtown at union. Which is quite good/average by international standards.

Last edited by saiho; August 6th, 2012 at 02:40 AM. Reason: capitalization
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Old August 6th, 2012, 05:51 AM   #1125
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Yes there will be a Bloor/Dundas West station but very few will use it. If you are going to Pearson and you are already at Dunda you might as well stay on the Bloor line and then take the airport express at Kipling.
The Pearson line will be running every 15 minutes and by that time you would be at Kipling to say nothing of the fact that it will cost you probably $25 on top of your transit fare as they will not be integrated.

Metrolinx keeps telling Torontonians they can't electrify the line by 2015 which of course is complete crap. That 3 years from now on a project that could easily be done in a year. To make matters worse the Pearson line will be using the busy Georgetown Commuter Rail corridor which runs very very large commuter trains. The line will become the busiest diesel rail corridor on the planet with diesel trains rolling by every 3 to 4 minutes in rush hour.

You want to hear an incredible excuse Metrolinx has come up with to reasert their lie that the Pearson line can't be electrified?...............they state they will need to do a completely new enviornmental assesment. Before you ask, yes, you really did read that correctly. They state they will need another enviornmental assesment along the same rail corridor they just did one for all to put up electrical poles along a rail line.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #1126
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Yeah I honestly doubt that economy would pick up by 2015 so that commuters will easly fork out $25 on top of existing TTC fare. It will probably be for the first timers visiting Toronto and not wanting to be ripped off by taxi drivers. I would say a decent chunk of european travellers because they keep an eye on every penny when they visit Toronto. I do recall when one asked me if there is a free shuttle to the airport. haha I wonder if there is such a thing anywhere in the world. Anyhow rail link to the airport is such shame for Toronto.



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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
Yes there will be a Bloor/Dundas West station but very few will use it. If you are going to Pearson and you are already at Dunda you might as well stay on the Bloor line and then take the airport express at Kipling.
The Pearson line will be running every 15 minutes and by that time you would be at Kipling to say nothing of the fact that it will cost you probably $25 on top of your transit fare as they will not be integrated.

Metrolinx keeps telling Torontonians they can't electrify the line by 2015 which of course is complete crap. That 3 years from now on a project that could easily be done in a year. To make matters worse the Pearson line will be using the busy Georgetown Commuter Rail corridor which runs very very large commuter trains. The line will become the busiest diesel rail corridor on the planet with diesel trains rolling by every 3 to 4 minutes in rush hour.

You want to hear an incredible excuse Metrolinx has come up with to reasert their lie that the Pearson line can't be electrified?...............they state they will need to do a completely new enviornmental assesment. Before you ask, yes, you really did read that correctly. They state they will need another enviornmental assesment along the same rail corridor they just did one for all to put up electrical poles along a rail line.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 06:14 AM   #1127
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Originally Posted by lezgotolondon View Post
A diesel train? that's sad.

How long does it take to reach the city centre?
Who honestly cares if its diesel? As long as it works and gets people there.

Electrification of railroads is an extreme luxury for North America.

Only NE Corridor, very small part of Montreal commuter system, South Shore line, and 30 miles or so section of Metra Electric line (which shares parts of its routes with the south Shore Line0 are electrified. combined they dont even total up to 1000 miles. And oh, Metro North and LIRR. Forget because they use 3rd rail (except on New Haven line, some parts),and even there not every parts of the routes are electrified, and thats they are the two biggest commuter systems in North America.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #1128
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Canadians going 3rd World now? Why not build LRT right now?
It's not dense enought for an LRT.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #1129
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Quote:
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i only had two dollar coins
but that shouldnt be an issue in the first place if the system was proper!
and its not that they "forgot" to implement change return, its done on purpose, god knows how much extra money they generate from the potential hundreds of people that dont get their money returned to them per day
you get change back in the store, in the mall , in a restaurant, so why should it be any different for such services?
Hmm correct if I am wrong, but it says on it that you won't get it back. There is a sticker on the machine. On top of that, you can purchase the tokens.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 07:21 AM   #1130
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Hmm correct if I am wrong, but it says on it that you won't get it back. There is a sticker on the machine. On top of that, you can purchase the tokens.
there arent any tokens for the buses as far as i know
anyway, even if it says we wont give them back, it makes not sense, so they are telling you they will rip you off/steal from you, what difference does it make?
theres a huge driver in the seat im sure he can do something easily to give money back, or there should be a control or something that returns change

its stealing no matter how many signs and excuses they make
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Old August 6th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #1131
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It does matter if it's diesel or electric.
If this was a totally new corridor then people may grin and bear it but not the current corridor. The corridor it is using , named the Georgetown, is a lready a very busy diesel commuter rail corridor with 8 car double decker diesel commuter rail trains and regular freight diesel rail. Now it will have 8 more diesel trains running on it all day. The people along the corridor are furious with the extra pollution it will produce both air and noise and who can blame them?

To make matters worse this isn't even a transit service. This is a rail line that will be about $25 per trip........strickly for the business class who can use it as a tax write off. No one in Toronto will ever use this line. It's estimated to carry only 5,000 people per day...a pittance considering 2 million passengers a day ply the Greater Toronto transit systems. People who already have a transit pass won't even get a discount on the route so they will pay double. The only people who are pushing the line are the manderines at Metrolinx and the politicians who want it built for the 2015 PanAm games which, embarrasingly, Toronto states will be the most "green" games ever built.

As if all that was noit enough the line will take up the only available corridor left for a Downtown Relief rapid transit line which Toronto desperately needs. They have already bought the DMU cars but they were bought with electrical conversion already built in so they would not have to reorder any trains. They just don't want to spend the small amount to electrify the line yet are spending $6 billion on one non-grade separated LRT line.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #1132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
a huge driver in the seat
You write that as though you advocate bus drivers' becoming destructive or violent an inevitable necessity "Exact fare" only, get used to it, it's customary to this continent.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 02:57 AM   #1133
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As if all that was noit enough the line will take up the only available corridor left for a Downtown Relief rapid transit line which Toronto desperately needs.
The DRL is only "desperately needed" east of the Yonge line, the other end of the loop is just a super-pipe dream (DRL is already a pipe dream as it is) that transit fans talk about over coffee.

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They have already bought the DMU cars but they were bought with electrical conversion already built in so they would not have to reorder any trains. They just don't want to spend the small amount to electrify the line
GO fully stated it will electrify it in their report, though I agree the time scale is leisurely at best. It seems like they based it on hiring only 3 people to work on it. I think itís to save money. Besides they can't do it now they are still designing it. Long story short they bought DMUs because EMUs need electrical infrastructure that is non-existent at the moment. ARL has to be done by pan-am games but they haven't finished designing the electrification system. So DMU -> EMU in phase 1. Sure they can fast track the design and construction, 3 years is loads of time. Too bad we don't have loads of money, and this isnít China.

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Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
yet are spending $6 billion on one non-grade separated LRT line.
IMO the Eglinton-crosstown is probably the most important transit project in Toronto second to the holy grail DRL.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 04:52 AM   #1134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
It does matter if it's diesel or electric.
If this was a totally new corridor then people may grin and bear it but not the current corridor. The corridor it is using , named the Georgetown, is a lready a very busy diesel commuter rail corridor with 8 car double decker diesel commuter rail trains and regular freight diesel rail. Now it will have 8 more diesel trains running on it all day. The people along the corridor are furious with the extra pollution it will produce both air and noise and who can blame them?

To make matters worse this isn't even a transit service. This is a rail line that will be about $25 per trip........strickly for the business class who can use it as a tax write off. No one in Toronto will ever use this line. It's estimated to carry only 5,000 people per day...a pittance considering 2 million passengers a day ply the Greater Toronto transit systems. People who already have a transit pass won't even get a discount on the route so they will pay double. The only people who are pushing the line are the manderines at Metrolinx and the politicians who want it built for the 2015 PanAm games which, embarrasingly, Toronto states will be the most "green" games ever built.

As if all that was noit enough the line will take up the only available corridor left for a Downtown Relief rapid transit line which Toronto desperately needs. They have already bought the DMU cars but they were bought with electrical conversion already built in so they would not have to reorder any trains. They just don't want to spend the small amount to electrify the line yet are spending $6 billion on one non-grade separated LRT line.
I personally think this premium service will be a flop. They should have just increased GO service, add a spur line to the airport, and run GO trains on them. Refit the trains with some luggage racks, and it will benefit both airport and commuter passengers (something like a Heathrow Connect).

Not sure whether there is enough premium traffic to sustain such an expensive service. The downtown-bound business passenger probably has enough dough in the pocket to ride a taxi anyway.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 05:44 AM   #1135
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I personally think this premium service will be a flop. They should have just increased GO service, add a spur line to the airport, and run GO trains on them. Refit the trains with some luggage racks, and it will benefit both airport and commuter passengers (something like a Heathrow Connect).

Not sure whether there is enough premium traffic to sustain such an expensive service. The downtown-bound business passenger probably has enough dough in the pocket to ride a taxi anyway.
I think that might be the reason they opted for smaller trains. If they used GO trains it will be like 99% empty if they kept 4tph and operating express service. Any less frequent and/or slower will be a complete buzzkill and would definitely be a flop as airport links tend and are expected to be express and more expensive (compare airport express and tung chung or Heathrow Connect vs. Express). Also the elevated structure for the airport spur would have to be so beefy to support even a half size GO train.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 08:56 AM   #1136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover
You write that as though you advocate bus drivers' becoming destructive or violent an inevitable necessity "Exact fare" only, get used to it, it's customary to this continent.
i mean that its easy for them to pay change back , its not the drivers' personal policy

i dont want to get "used" to it, i cant accept giving off money for no reason, there come times when you dont have exact change
i cant believe nobody cares here , its an obvious right to have your money returned , regardless of what is posted, its an insult, thats what matters , not the 1$ you might loose

ive been living here for over 12 years and its a lovely place but there are a few very annoying things that really get on your nerves, one of the biggest of those issues is public transport as a whole , no wonder why people prefer cars, sadly , poor public transport and street service seems to not be very important even as a cultural thing not only in toronto but in north america as a whole

anyway, lets get on with business
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Old August 8th, 2012, 06:35 AM   #1137
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Denver is currently building it's rail link and is a similar distance from downtown as is Pearson to Toronto. It, however, will be affordable and have standard fares and like Airlink will run every 15 minutes all day. Of course this service will be beneficial to all users and not just the stock exchange crowd. Denver is building a clean and sustainable transit line for it's citizens and Toronto is building a loud, polluting, rail service that only the Rothchild's could love.

This service has absolutely nothing to do with providing transit service to the people of Toronto and everything to do with the PanAm Games. After the PanAm games the province couldn't care less if it goes belly-up but then neither could Torontonians or city councillors.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 06:41 AM   #1138
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Yes there will be a Bloor/Dundas West station but very few will use it. If you are going to Pearson and you are already at Dunda you might as well stay on the Bloor line and then take the airport express at Kipling.
I was thinking it would be easier for people who are landing in Toronto to transfer to the subway at Dundas West rather than waiting for a connection at Union then navigating the system from there, especially if they live in the area, like me. But I agree it's a luxury line. Better than taking a cab, but worse than the express bus + subway (if money is important). I don't find the express bus + subway that bad, since I live on the Bloor line anyway. Maybe if I needed to go downtown instead the Air Rail link would be a better option.

There's also the possibility of the line being converted to a western downtown relief line, which is an idea that's been proposed.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #1139
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How much of a fight might locals be pitting against big business's plans for exclusive rail shuttle service to the airport there? Most Montreal west island mayors, for instance, are among many rallying against such a shuttle, plus barely anybody's keen about the wish at the inherent restictions of its having SRT-like rolling stock.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #1140
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If you're referring to the Air Rail link that's under construction, a group of residents is considering launching legal action. They have the support of many local MP's, MPP's and Councillors, so there is at least some political sway behind the issue.
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