TORONTO | Public Transport

[degnaw]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

Early perimeter seating as it would have appeared on one of the older trains. looks good, but why so narrow?

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the scarborough rt?

[Smelser]

Originally Posted by KGB

"The RT cars are indeed a piece of shite, no idea how anyone can like them."

Well, their linear induction motors and driverless automation was a novelty back in the day I guess (and this was a compromise from the mag lev technology the Ontario government was working on). You should check out what some of the Vancouverite forumers have to say about it (they have the excact same thing)...they are calling it "the most advanced transit system in the world" LOL!!!

KGB

I realize that this comment was made several years ago, but I just noticed this thread today and couldn't help myself. This is so very true, Vancouverites live in total denial about Skytrain's capabilities, and that of LRT generally.

Here we got the automated LRT system designed by UTDC, a once-upon-a-time Ontario Govt Crown Corp as Skytrain in time for the 1986 Expo, which was officially a transportation exhibition! Why was this system chosen, and why was it put into service over a nearly 30km distance from downtown Vancouver to North Surrey. The answer of course is politics. Premier Bill Bennett had won the 1979 provincial election by a narrow margin, and wanted to secure his position by hiring new, highly talented political operatives. These he obtained from the Ontario Conservatives, the Big Blue Machine, in the persons of Jerry Lampert and Patrick Kinsella. In exchange, the BC Govt decided, over objections from local officials, to purchase the Ontario Crown Corp's ALRT system, which to that point had no significant sales.

Bennett's Science Minister, UBC Professor Pat McGeer also liked the fact that the trains would be automated. There would be no bus drivers who could go on strike. It was the same decision making criteria McGeer postulated in touting a fixed link to Vancouver Island, there would be no ferry workers who could go on strike. The fixed link project was later shown in BC Govt studies to require tolls of around $200, instead of the current $50 or so on the BC Ferries. Here was another, explicitly political rationale for choosing the Ontario ALRT equipment.

The Toronto Transit Commission was leery of the system and never let it get beyond one small spur line. And I understand that the Scarborourgh RT line does have drivers, because in Ontarion they didn't want to spook the riders by asking them board pilotless craft.

I hope this will help spur discussion, but I have to go now.

[LordMandeep]

Vancouver is a nice city but even having a small highway would have solved all of the city's traffic problems.

[Jayayess1190]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_subway_and_RT



http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/spadina_ex..._alignment.htm



http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5511.shtml



This artists conception, taken from the TTC’s website, illustrates one feature the mockup car was unable to encapsulate. The proposed trains are to feature cabs which stretch the width of the car. The TTC official on duty admitted that a number of people had complained about the loss of the “railfan” window allowing passengers to look out the front of the train.



Another shot of the gangway effect. Photo by Gordon Keith.



This image, taken from the TTC website, illustrates possible internal colour schemes that passengers could choose between. Scheme 1 is obviously closest to that of the T-1, and the internal appearance of the mock-up. The other schemes do not match the internal configuration of the mockup or feature only unpopular side-facing seats. One wonders which scheme passengers favoured.



Another feature of that the mock-up car was not able to simulate was the evacuation ramp out of the front of the train, allowing passengers, including those on wheelchairs, to quickly reach track level.



One of the bells and whistles displayed on the mockup is this LED version of the TTC’s subway map. Coloured lights will tell riders where they are on the network, where they are going, and where the doors will open at the next stop.



The red X indicates that doors will open on the opposite side. The green arrow indicates the doors will open on this side.

[monkeyronin]

Originally Posted by degnaw

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the scarborough rt?

hmm, I guess it would be now that you mention it.

[Skybean]

Regarding "bells and whistles" of animated signboard maps: Many modern subway systems have had this for years.

[degnaw]

That is a lot of people...

How would everyone even fit on the train (I am in favor of perimeter seating, as it makes it less of a cattle car for those who can't get a seat), even if everyone was standing? how many trains would have to go by (which might already be full) before everyone in the picture could get on?

[yin_yang]

Originally Posted by degnaw

That is a lot of people...

How would everyone even fit on the train (I am in favor of perimeter seating, as it makes it less of a cattle car for those who can't get a seat), even if everyone was standing? how many trains would have to go by (which might already be full) before everyone in the picture could get on?

that's probably an isolated incident...i've lived here for 10 years and i've only seen it like that a few times. but to answer your question, if the train cars were empty, it would probably take 2 or 3 of them to get everybody on...

[hkskyline]

That's where platform screen doors can prevent people from being pushed off the platform inadvertently.

[KGB]

"How would everyone even fit on the train, even if everyone was standing? "


Theoretically, the answer would probably be just one. A T1 car has a crush load of 315 passengers, so a six-car train can hold nearly 1900 people...I don't think there are that many people in that pic.

Bloor/Yonge is the major subway transfer station between two major lines downtown....it is unlikely the coming train would be empty, but generally, most people get off the train at that station. And the platform would generally never be that crowded...a T! train will come every minute or two. It only gets like that when there is a delay on the sytem, or perhaps a very big event going on around there, which ends and everybody pours on the subway at the same time (like the Pride Parade or something).







KGB

[Smelser]

Originally Posted by LordMandeep

Vancouver is a nice city but even having a small highway would have solved all of the city's traffic problems.

I am not sure which "small highway" you mean, but I do understand that AADT volumes at Port Mann are in the range of 120 to 130 thousand compared to over 400 thousand on sections of Hwy 401 in Toronto.

I don't believe freeways alone would solve all traffic and transportation problems. Rather, a combination of freeways that include HOV lanes and express buses, heavy commuter rail of the GO or WCExpress variety running at improved speeds, and some rationally designed LRT lines are indicated. The GVRD and the BC Govt have refused to build the freeway element beyond a minimalist amount, have also seriously underplayed the commuter rail element, and instead have squandered billions on vastly overdone LRT lines that are too slow to be appropriate for the longer distances they are assigned to travel, but at the same time, by being elevated, have less impact on street level commercial activity that would a Calgary C-train arrangement.

It's an entirely suboptimal configuration arrived at by inter-governmental and inter-municipal log-rolling and politics, and conflicting irrational emotions, a desire to avoid the really big expenses of heavy rail and serious freeways, while at the same time being quite prepared to spend lavishly making an intermediate level system look like a major system. To stay out of trouble with the voters, the politicians, both local and provincial, rely on BC and especially Vancouver voters' smug, insular attitude, their endless willingness to be falsely flattered and told in cheesy government TV commercials that this is "the best place on Earth!", that they've done something really unique and special here that no other major city could possibly do. Which is partly true in a sense, although not a fit subject for bragging, really.

[kashyap3]

well eventhough the ttc subway is quite extensive, it needs to expand, build a ring rail or something that provides better connectivity to the suburbs or isolated regions of toronto

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Skybean

Bloor



Regarding "bells and whistles" of animated signboard maps: Many modern subway systems have had this for years.

If I were up in front, I would be very very ver scared. Man, those station platforms need to be lengthened or widened and on top of that install platform screen doors.

[Bertez]

hmm...is it just me, or is the Bloor Line sign at the top reversed??

[DonQui]

Originally Posted by Bertez

hmm...is it just me, or is the Bloor Line sign at the top reversed??

I would imagine a that it is a photo that needs to be flipped around on its mirror image.

[Skybean]

Originally Posted by DonQui

I would imagine a that it is a photo that needs to be flipped around on its mirror image.

Close but the shot was taken at a mirror. Anyways, as mentioned earlier Toronto stations rarely have this type of overcrowding. Even if this were the case, we would not have the money to install barriers or to extend the platform.

If you walk aroud some of the older stations such as Finch, you can see leaking water and basically stations falling apart.

[samsonyuen]

That picture is quite crazy! Ther emust have been a stoppage of service that day or something.

[kashyap3]

well rush hour is quite busy but after that, there is virtually no traffic

[degnaw]

I dont know if this is a stupid question, but what is a hydro corridor? why is there no development there? it obviously can support ttc commuter lots and facilities, and they seem to be planning rail lines along it...

[Homer J. Simpson]

^Immagine if you will high tention hydro lines with developement on either sides. That is a hydro corridor, just power lines that cut accross the land.

The problem with placing PT and ajacent facilities on them is the same as placing them over other ROWs, that is that people do not like to walk into the hinterlands to use them unless there is some sort of development around the stations.