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Old April 21st, 2015, 01:36 AM   #1721
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For a region bursting at the seams due to decades of under investment in transit there's finally reason for optimism. The $31.5 billion investment will be a boon for the Greater Golden Horseshoe and better integrate the region as 1 economic entity. Together the GGH is a powerhouse with 9.2 million people and a GDP ~ $500 billion.

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Old April 21st, 2015, 04:36 AM   #1722
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Its not enough , Ontario should have a Province wide Electrified Intercity Network feeding into the GTA with a few daily Diesel Services heading West into the US and Western / Ontario from GTA & Ottawa. Lower Quebec should also have an Electrified Intercity Network connecting the various towns and cities...and an expanding AMT system. Eventually HSR should join all the Cities between Windsor & Quebec City.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 05:36 AM   #1723
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Province wide electrified intercity network? The only place that can compare to that would be NEC with many times the population.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 05:46 AM   #1724
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I'm pretty sure he meant southern Ontario when he said 'province wide'. The US north-east corridor has double the population of the Quebec City-Detroit corridor but it's still dense enough to support what Nexis is proposing.

Is it really that big of a stretch that Kitchener would get connected to London and then London to Windsor/Detroit? In the other direction, Oshawa to Kingston? Kingston to Ottawa? When this round of GO expansion and investment wraps up in 2025 the next phase should be these connector bits so that the whole corridor is upgraded to electrified full service, preferably HSR.

Including Detroit, there are 26 million people in this corridor. That's big enough imo and more people than live in Australia.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 06:32 AM   #1725
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No one is saying it wouldn't be nice or couldn't be done. But to suggest that it "isn't enough" when every other region on the continent at all similar in size and density gets by without is a bit strange. Electrification is extremely expensive and requires a high level of traffic to justify the initial construction and ongoing maintenance costs. Intercity electrification would be nice but would really be pushing it when there are so many priorities not yet addressed.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 06:46 AM   #1726
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Yes , Mainly Southern Ontario & Mainly in the Detroit/Windsor - Quebec City Corridor. The Diesel Services would feed into the Major Cities like Ottawa , GTA , Montreal and Quebec from Rural parts of both Provinces and the US.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 05:08 PM   #1727
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Ontario Newsroom

News Release

Ontario Moving Forward with Hurontario-Main Light Rail Transit Project

April 21, 2015

Project to Bring 23 KM, 26 Stops of Light Rail Transit to Mississauga, Brampton

As part of the largest infrastructure investment in Ontario's history, Ontario is moving ahead with the Hurontario-Main Light Rail Transit (LRT) project.

This LRT is a new public transit project, led by Metrolinx, that will bring 23 kilometres of rapid transit to Mississauga and Brampton. The LRT line is proposed to have 26 stops, including three stops within downtown Mississauga and two stops in downtown Brampton. The service will move more people faster through these corridors than the existing bus service.

Through the Moving Ontario Forward plan the government is investing in priority rapid transit projects that will connect to the GO Transit network and other transit systems across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA). These priority rapid transit projects will increase transit ridership, reduce travel times, manage congestion, connect people to jobs, and improve the economy.

On April 16, 2015, Ontario moved ahead with its plan to unlock the value of certain public assets. This will provide the province with approximately $4 billion to build new transit and other priority infrastructure projects through Moving Ontario Forward.

Investing more than $130 billion over 10 years in public infrastructure *-- the largest infrastructure investment in the province's history -- is part of the government's plan for Ontario. The four-part plan is building Ontario up by investing in people's talents and skills, building new public infrastructure like roads and transit, creating a dynamic, innovative environment where business thrives, and building a secure retirement savings plan.


QUICK FACTS

The province’s Moving Ontario Forward plan will make $31.5 billion available over the next 10 years for investments in priority infrastructure projects across the province and is expected to support over 20,000 jobs per year, on average, in construction and related industries.
Under Moving Ontario Forward, around $16 billion is being allocated to transit and transportation projects in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA), and about $15 billion available for investment in roads, bridges, transit and other critical infrastructure in the rest of the province.
The Hurontario-Main LRT will provide a crucial link between many of the region’s existing transit lines, including GO Transit’s Kitchener, Milton and Lakeshore West rail lines, Brampton Züm, and the Mississauga Transitway BRT.





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Old April 21st, 2015, 06:09 PM   #1728
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Bravo Premier Wynne, finally someone with the vision and balls to do what the people and the economy desperately need.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 05:17 AM   #1729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
No one is saying it wouldn't be nice or couldn't be done. But to suggest that it "isn't enough" when every other region on the continent at all similar in size and density gets by without is a bit strange. Electrification is extremely expensive and requires a high level of traffic to justify the initial construction and ongoing maintenance costs. Intercity electrification would be nice but would really be pushing it when there are so many priorities not yet addressed.
Those are valid points but also begs the question of whether this region wants to stay with the pack or move ahead of them. Canadian metros have already shown their willingness to invest far more heavily in electrified rail than their counterparts in the US. Toronto and Montreal have the 3rd and 4th busiest subway systems on the continent after Mexico City and New York. Based on population they have no business being 3rd and 4th. Even Vancouver, which ranks as perhaps the 35th most populated metro in NA, is in the top 10 when it comes to passenger volume on its electrified rail network.

Toronto, in particular, has greater ambitions than just being another large NA metro. Toronto wants to be a dominant global city. Just keeping pace with Houston, Washington, or even Chicago isn't the benchmark by which the city is judging itself these days. We could get by with what we have but we're increasingly viewing these things as critical infrastructure investments that will give us a competitive edge over other metro regions in NA. We'd be wise to stop viewing it as a luxury and start viewing it for what it represents: an investment in our long term economic prosperity and a stepping stone to the next level.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 06:48 AM   #1730
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Except for this announcement Toronto hasn't really shown great willingness to invest in electrified rail except compared to the worst cases in NA - not even mentioning cities in Europe or Asia. The subway is a similar size to MTL, Atlanta, Boston, etc. and smaller than DC and Chicago and is highly underbuilt relative to the ridership as you pointed out.

When you're coming from behind and someone presents a strong strategy to help catch up, one doesn't complain that it doesn't put you ahead. That can come once the business of catching up is over which is at least a good decade down the road.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 07:07 AM   #1731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'm pretty sure he meant southern Ontario when he said 'province wide'. The US north-east corridor has double the population of the Quebec City-Detroit corridor but it's still dense enough to support what Nexis is proposing.

Is it really that big of a stretch that Kitchener would get connected to London and then London to Windsor/Detroit? In the other direction, Oshawa to Kingston? Kingston to Ottawa? When this round of GO expansion and investment wraps up in 2025 the next phase should be these connector bits so that the whole corridor is upgraded to electrified full service, preferably HSR.

Including Detroit, there are 26 million people in this corridor. That's big enough imo and more people than live in Australia.
I suspected as much; because if he meant the entire province, then you can pretty much bet the people in Northeastern and Northwestern Ontario will be uber pissed and want to form their own provinces :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Except for this announcement Toronto hasn't really shown great willingness to invest in electrified rail except compared to the worst cases in NA - not even mentioning cities in Europe or Asia. The subway is a similar size to MTL, Atlanta, Boston, etc. and smaller than DC and Chicago and is highly underbuilt relative to the ridership as you pointed out.

When you're coming from behind and someone presents a strong strategy to help catch up, one doesn't complain that it doesn't put you ahead. That can come once the business of catching up is over which is at least a good decade down the road.
Well; the government of Toronto anyway, which is run by the conservative John Tory. Keep in mind dude; in both US and Canada, the right-wing public appears to be extremely hesitant (at best) to the idea of pouring in more funds for public transit and rail of any kind. They are more in favor of building roads and being more pro-car.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 07:11 AM   #1732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktrojan3921 View Post
I suspected as much; because if he meant the entire province, then you can pretty much bet the people in Northeastern and Northwestern Ontario will be uber pissed and want to form their own provinces :P
We already do. We are already pissed at the raping that happens.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 07:14 AM   #1733
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Northern Ontario should have separated and become its own province decades ago. I'm stunned that it hasn't happened already. Northern Ontario should run its own affairs, not be governed from distant Toronto. That said, don't be pissed off at southern Ontario. If you want your own province, it's northern Ontario that needs to make that happen. People in the south certainly aren't going to make it an election issue.

If people in northern Ontario want to be pissed off at someone they should look in the mirror. Door mats have only themselves to blame for letting it happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Except for this announcement Toronto hasn't really shown great willingness to invest in electrified rail except compared to the worst cases in NA - not even mentioning cities in Europe or Asia. The subway is a similar size to MTL, Atlanta, Boston, etc. and smaller than DC and Chicago and is highly underbuilt relative to the ridership as you pointed out.

When you're coming from behind and someone presents a strong strategy to help catch up, one doesn't complain that it doesn't put you ahead. That can come once the business of catching up is over which is at least a good decade down the road.
Complaining is precisely why things are now moving ahead briskly. What you see as complaining I see as a relentless drive to continually improve and raise the bar. I sense that people outside Toronto greatly under estimate how ambitious this city has become. If people are judging Toronto by the rail its built up till now that can only be to Toronto's advantage. They won't see Toronto coming.

It's no surprise that the person saying it's not good enough (Nexis) comes from the Northeast Corridor, an area that demands the very best in absolutely everything. They know it's not good enough if this region wants to get where it wants to go. The $31.5 billion investment in GO is just the starting point as far as I'm concerned. Premier Wynne knows it too.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 10:09 AM   #1734
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I'm making a map of all the Proposed Regional / Urban / Intercity / HSR Projects in Ontario , Quebec & Eastern Provinces similar to my uncompleted Northeastern Map that it might be merged with.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...A.kQDtB3dU7TK8
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 03:26 AM   #1735
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Quote:
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Northern Ontario should have separated and become its own province decades ago. I'm stunned that it hasn't happened already. Northern Ontario should run its own affairs, not be governed from distant Toronto. That said, don't be pissed off at southern Ontario. If you want your own province, it's northern Ontario that needs to make that happen. People in the south certainly aren't going to make it an election issue.

If people in northern Ontario want to be pissed off at someone they should look in the mirror. Door mats have only themselves to blame for letting it happen.



Complaining is precisely why things are now moving ahead briskly. What you see as complaining I see as a relentless drive to continually improve and raise the bar. I sense that people outside Toronto greatly under estimate how ambitious this city has become. If people are judging Toronto by the rail its built up till now that can only be to Toronto's advantage. They won't see Toronto coming.

It's no surprise that the person saying it's not good enough (Nexis) comes from the Northeast Corridor, an area that demands the very best in absolutely everything. They know it's not good enough if this region wants to get where it wants to go. The $31.5 billion investment in GO is just the starting point as far as I'm concerned. Premier Wynne knows it too.
Not sure about the whole "Northeast Corridor demanding the very best" angle when that region lags behind several similar regions in terms of public transit, including London, Tokyo, and Paris. Besides, given what's already been announced, the GTA will easily be on par in percapita terms. Don't forget it's a metro area 1/3 the size.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 08:17 AM   #1736
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Quote:
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Well; the government of Toronto anyway, which is run by the conservative John Tory. Keep in mind dude; in both US and Canada, the right-wing public appears to be extremely hesitant (at best) to the idea of pouring in more funds for public transit and rail of any kind. They are more in favor of building roads and being more pro-car.
SmartTrack was the centerpiece of John Tory's election campaign, maybe the only mayor in decades willing to take action.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 08:29 AM   #1737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Except for this announcement Toronto hasn't really shown great willingness to invest in electrified rail except compared to the worst cases in NA - not even mentioning cities in Europe or Asia. The subway is a similar size to MTL, Atlanta, Boston, etc. and smaller than DC and Chicago and is highly underbuilt relative to the ridership as you pointed out.
Suburban railways are run by GO, not by the government of Toronto, so electrification of the GO system it's not a city matter. The province is going to pour billions in the electrification of their network btw. In the meantime in the city a LRT is under construction, two others are already planned, one subway extension is U/C, another extension is planned, then there's the replacement of the Scarborough RT, the proposed SmartTrack, the proposed DRL, new streetcars, the incoming electrification of the Union Pearson Express (which is a Metrolinx project), etc etc. I wouldn't say Toronto "hasn't shown great willingness to invest in electrified rail".
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 10:18 AM   #1738
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Good posts Zach.

What happened with transit/rail here in 1990-2005 shouldn't be viewed as an indicator of the climate for transit/rail today. The whole region is investing heavily in transit/rail and understands that we can't repeat the mistakes made in the past where it was neglected. This is an on going portfolio that will need continuous upgrades, expansion, and investment.

I doubt when we finally catch up to where we should be that we'll suddenly view the job as 'done' and move on to other things. The culture in Toronto has changed and demands best in class in practically everything these days. It takes a long time to change a culture and we're not 'there' yet but you can feel the cultural shift all around in every facet of life in this city.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 10:09 PM   #1739
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York Concourse of Union station, taken by Urban Toronto:

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Old April 24th, 2015, 10:49 PM   #1740
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York Concourse is only the tip of the iceberg. Another post from Urban Toronto shows the amount of development going on at Union Station.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post
For newcomers to this thread, it is worth reposting this great diagram:








...Yes, that's our own huge Urban Eatery sized food in a brand new basement level under Union!...It is reported to also have a market restaurant like La Marche or RichTree, and some sit-down restaurants too! (2017)




See:
http://www.gotransit.com/unionstatio...concourse.aspx

By 2017:
....triple the square footage of GO concourse (and no coffee/lotto lineups blocking the way)
....entire Bay concourse will look like the York concourse.
....there will be no stairs in the moat between TTC and lower Bay concourse (much faster to get from TTC to GOtrain).
....the whole footprint of Union will have a large retail level, that is more than half-used by food (Urban Eatery style food court, market restaurant like La Marche or RichTree, and sit-down restaurants)

York is only the beginning. Then we have the UPX opening May 6th (and the nice UPstairs cafe/beer lounge open to public not just UPX customers, also useful as a waiting lounge for GOtrain commuters too who have enough time to kill). You haven't seen *anything* yet! We do have to wait a bit longer due to delays and the decision to postpone Bay shutdown until PanAm, but it will be worth the wait.

Yes, this is a repost, but we're having a surge of readers who haven't been keeping up. Unaware people shocked at the sudden appearance of an unexpected York concourse, will still not even realize there's a large food court coming, and that Bay concourse will be replaced by a same-sized one, too.
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