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Old April 25th, 2015, 12:06 AM   #1741
Nouvellecosse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
Suburban railways are run by GO, not by the government of Toronto, so electrification of the GO system it's not a city matter. The province is going to pour billions in the electrification of their network btw. In the meantime in the city a LRT is under construction, two others are already planned, one subway extension is U/C, another extension is planned, then there's the replacement of the Scarborough RT, the proposed SmartTrack, the proposed DRL, new streetcars, the incoming electrification of the Union Pearson Express (which is a Metrolinx project), etc etc. I wouldn't say Toronto "hasn't shown great willingness to invest in electrified rail".
The LRT under construction is also a metrolinx (provincial) project isn't it? The fact is, there have been no shortage of plans and proposals but that is not the same thing as actually investing and getting it built. It's good to see things like the Yonge extension U/C (although I'd have preferred the funds invested elsewhere like toward a DRL) but for a city with the size, density and growth rate of Toronto it's very little. I'm sorry but my statement stands.

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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Good posts Zach.

What happened with transit/rail here in 1990-2005 shouldn't be viewed as an indicator of the climate for transit/rail today. The whole region is investing heavily in transit/rail and understands that we can't repeat the mistakes made in the past where it was neglected. This is an on going portfolio that will need continuous upgrades, expansion, and investment.

I doubt when we finally catch up to where we should be that we'll suddenly view the job as 'done' and move on to other things. The culture in Toronto has changed and demands best in class in practically everything these days. It takes a long time to change a culture and we're not 'there' yet but you can feel the cultural shift all around in every facet of life in this city.
What it really comes down to is that there's a difference between demanding real, achievable transportation goals like investing in relieving crowding and expanding express rail coverage as opposed to demanding that we go from far being behind to being ahead of the pack suddenly. When the latter happens you get Rob Ford "subways, subways, subways" type scenarios where it gets mired in political deadlock and endless debate over wanting big things without a plan to fund them and not settling for anything but. Going that route under the false premise of being ambitious doesn't help anyone. No one is saying that when we've caught up that we're going to stop, just that it's too far in the future to worry about now, and that a plan stopping short of getting unrealistically ahead of itself is no reason for criticism.
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Old April 25th, 2015, 02:47 AM   #1742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
The LRT under construction is also a metrolinx (provincial) project isn't it? The fact is, there have been no shortage of plans and proposals but that is not the same thing as actually investing and getting it built. It's good to see things like the Yonge extension U/C (although I'd have preferred the funds invested elsewhere like toward a DRL) but for a city with the size, density and growth rate of Toronto it's very little. I'm sorry but my statement stands.
The Eglinton Crosstown LRT is a project originally from Transit City, it will be owned by Metrolinx and run by the TTC. GO and Metrolinx are two different entities, the latter is a operating division of the former. Beside that, you can plan all you want but you'll need money to build it, and that's something that must comes from Queen's Park and Ottawa. That's why Metrolinx exist, to coordinate and provide funds (from federal sources) for all the projects in the GHTA, not only in the city of Toronto. All these transit plans, including subway extensions and the DRL, are part of the Metrolinx's Big Move plan. Most of the others projects I mentioned early are already funded btw, they're going through their Environment Assessment.

There was a time when no projects at all were been proposed. Your statement claim that the city is basically doing little or nothing, which is not true. Your statement is invalid.



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Quote:
The Finch West and Sheppard East LRT projects, which will provide reliable and improved transit service on these busy corridors. The Finch West LRT will run along Finch Avenue between Humber College and Keele Street, and the Sheppard East LRT will run along Sheppard Avenue from Don Mills Station to Morningside Avenue. The procurement process for the Finch West LRT project is expected to begin later in 2015.
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/o...1b.html#ch1b_3
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Old April 25th, 2015, 06:47 PM   #1743
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The Yonge extension isn't funded, yet alone under construction. Do you mean the Spadina extension?
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Old April 25th, 2015, 09:58 PM   #1744
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yes that's what he means.
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Old April 26th, 2015, 11:23 AM   #1745
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Still in testing:


UP Express-April 2015 by Metrolinx, on Flickr
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Old April 26th, 2015, 11:51 AM   #1746
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I thought service already launched?
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Old April 26th, 2015, 01:58 PM   #1747
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I thought service already launched?
It will be launched on 6 June
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Old April 26th, 2015, 10:58 PM   #1748
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The new concourse at Union Station opened this afternoon, a day early.
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Old April 27th, 2015, 09:27 PM   #1749
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One more shot on UPE:


Union Pearson Express Entrance Awaiting Opening by its only kotsy, on Flickr
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Old April 27th, 2015, 09:27 PM   #1750
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Flexity tram at Union station:


Flexity Streetcar at Union Station by its only kotsy, on Flickr
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Old April 27th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #1751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
The Eglinton Crosstown LRT is a project originally from Transit City, it will be owned by Metrolinx and run by the TTC. GO and Metrolinx are two different entities, the latter is a operating division of the former. Beside that, you can plan all you want but you'll need money to build it, and that's something that must comes from Queen's Park and Ottawa. That's why Metrolinx exist, to coordinate and provide funds (from federal sources) for all the projects in the GHTA, not only in the city of Toronto. All these transit plans, including subway extensions and the DRL, are part of the Metrolinx's Big Move plan. Most of the others projects I mentioned early are already funded btw, they're going through their Environment Assessment.

There was a time when no projects at all were been proposed. Your statement claim that the city is basically doing little or nothing, which is not true. Your statement is invalid.
All of this I already know, and my statement was that it hasn't shown "great willingness" to invest which is true I'm afraid. There are a few long overdue projects which have been mired in conflict and delays. Unless you consider anything beyond no construction at all to be indicative of "great willingness". Regardless of whether things change going forward, the fact that things have gotten as long overdue as they have proves my point.

Btw, the suggestion that funding is "something that must comes from Queen's Park and Ottawa" isn't entirely true either. All 3 levels of government are responsible.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 03:34 AM   #1752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
There was a time when no projects at all were been proposed. Your statement claim that the city is basically doing little or nothing, which is not true. Your statement is invalid.
There always has been lots of transit projects proposed in Toronto. Most of them never got through to construction for various reasons and non-reasons. That is basically doing little or nothing. Anyone can draw and map or do a 10% conceptual engineering design. Even funding a project here doesn't seem to completely guarantee completion in a reasonable timeframe.

Things are getting better with government ATM looking very stacked for a transport renaissance with the synergy of plans and ambition of John Tory and Kathleen Wynne. However putting on my cynic hat, it is still very early and a lot of the stuff proposed and (recently) funded is still more or less just talk. The first 10 steps of the marathon are taken but I would hardly call it the home stretch for most of these projects.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 03:43 AM   #1753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
There always has been lots of transit projects proposed in Toronto. Most of them never got through to construction for various reasons and non-reasons. That is basically doing little or nothing. Anyone can draw and map or do a 10% conceptual engineering design. Even funding a project here doesn't seem to completely guarantee completion in a reasonable timeframe.

Things are getting better with government ATM looking very stacked for a transport renaissance with the synergy of plans and ambition of John Tory and Kathleen Wynne. However putting on my cynic hat, it is still very early and a lot of the stuff proposed and (recently) funded is still more or less just talk. The first 10 steps of the marathon are taken but I would hardly call it the home stretch for most of these projects.

You know what would be nice? If the TBM and other construction equipment never stopped working. Once one project is done, on to another.

Too bad they do not try to do that. That would be a sure fire way to create jobs.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 07:14 AM   #1754
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You know what would be nice? If the TBM and other construction equipment never stopped working. Once one project is done, on to another.
That more has to do with certainty of transit plans and consistent predictable funding. You are never going to utilize the full value of your fixed sunk in assets (TBMs). However, it is quite rare to reuse TBMs on different projects as all TBMs are custom designed. For example the TBM for the Spadina Extension might not be able reused for the DRL as the TYSSE uses earth balance TBMs while the DRL will most likely be using a bedrock TBM.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 07:41 AM   #1755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
That more has to do with certainty of transit plans and consistent predictable funding. You are never going to utilize the full value of your fixed sunk in assets (TBMs). However, it is quite rare to reuse TBMs on different projects as all TBMs are custom designed. For example the TBM for the Spadina Extension might not be able reused for the DRL as the TYSSE uses earth balance TBMs while the DRL will most likely be using a bedrock TBM.
Well, why do they bury them in the ground?

Why not pull them out, recondition them and sell them? If they cannot be rebuilt and sold, why not recycle them? The metal alone would be worth enough to pull it out.

The larger point is, why do the workers stop? Get the funding, EA and the designs done on the proposed lines and once construction is done on one, put the shovels in the ground in the new line.

I know the excuses, but, what are the real reasons?
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Old April 29th, 2015, 06:10 PM   #1756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
What it really comes down to is that there's a difference between demanding real, achievable transportation goals like investing in relieving crowding and expanding express rail coverage as opposed to demanding that we go from far being behind to being ahead of the pack suddenly. When the latter happens you get Rob Ford "subways, subways, subways" type scenarios where it gets mired in political deadlock and endless debate over wanting big things without a plan to fund them and not settling for anything but. Going that route under the false premise of being ambitious doesn't help anyone. No one is saying that when we've caught up that we're going to stop, just that it's too far in the future to worry about now, and that a plan stopping short of getting unrealistically ahead of itself is no reason for criticism.
You're not reading what is being said to you. No one is fretting that we're not doing it all at once. People are rightly pointing out that the system is considerably under built and expanding the system beyond what comparable sized NA metros have is what Toronto needs to do if it wants to reach its goals.

Everyone seems to get that it's a 20+ year build out.... except you. No one has said it must happen suddenly all at the same time.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 01:59 AM   #1757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
All of this I already know, and my statement was that it hasn't shown "great willingness" to invest which is true I'm afraid. There are a few long overdue projects which have been mired in conflict and delays. Unless you consider anything beyond no construction at all to be indicative of "great willingness". Regardless of whether things change going forward, the fact that things have gotten as long overdue as they have proves my point.

Btw, the suggestion that funding is "something that must comes from Queen's Park and Ottawa" isn't entirely true either. All 3 levels of government are responsible.
You're not getting the whole point. Yes, despite what you think, allocating funds it is a "great willingness", there's much more between "Proposed" and "Under Construction". Other than that, I don't get why you're persisting on making your claim. What's your point exactly? Yes, Toronto is really behind when is coming to transit, is not exactly news, but at least we are (the city and the province together) finally doing something.

Oh, besides those project that you seems to know very well, there a lot more undergoing, like the renovation of Union Station, the new shed and the new subway platforms. And they take a good chunk of the funds.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 03:40 AM   #1758
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
You're not reading what is being said to you. No one is fretting that we're not doing it all at once. People are rightly pointing out that the system is considerably under built and expanding the system beyond what comparable sized NA metros have is what Toronto needs to do if it wants to reach its goals.

Everyone seems to get that it's a 20+ year build out.... except you. No one has said it must happen suddenly all at the same time.
The only thing I responded to several posts ago was when one poster criticized the recent announcement saying it's "not enough" and I took issue with that as clearly it's more than adequate for the foreseeable future. It's an enormous investment and if completed as announced, will work wonders toward reducing congestion and improving mobility in the GTA.

But for some reason everyone jumped in seeming to disagree and advising that if Toronto is really world class and ambitious it should be demanding more. Which to me seems silly as the city and province cannot reasonably chew a bigger infrastructure "bite" than it's already taking.

If everyone already realizes that the current investment is more than enough for the time being, then why did everyone jump on my post when I said it
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Old April 30th, 2015, 01:14 PM   #1759
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It's ironic that conservatives are so hesitant to invest in public transit when it would greatly help the city in terms of both efficiency and bringing businesses and investment here. any rapid transit lines bring forth condominiums and offices.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 07:07 PM   #1760
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conservatives do not understand how to run an economy, our economy has been run into the ground since cons got in power, manufacturing dead, cities falling apart due to lack of infrastructure investment. It is mindboggling to imagine how much economic growth, the so called multiplier effect could be generated if a few billion were invested over past few years on making one of Canada's major economic hubs function much better than it is. For one instead of spending $750 million on political ads, as a 1/3 share of a transit project, that money could have resulted in a $2.3 billion investment in extending the Yonge Line by 5 stops or building one relief line for about $2-3 billion which would have generated up to $15 billion in development.
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