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Old March 25th, 2006, 05:36 PM   #161
Accura4Matalan
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Toronto's subway was great. Very clean and very functional.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 04:27 AM   #162
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great pics there

And finally Subway is being extended to and even past York University!!
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Old March 27th, 2006, 05:13 AM   #163
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The streetcar cables always seem so strange. W/e I'm downtown I never notice them, but in pictures they always stand our. strange.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 05:16 AM   #164
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Thanks for the pics, but those subway cars look hideous! This is more than compensated by those streetcars though.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 05:20 AM   #165
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Well, they are very simplistic. If you take a look at those used in Europe or even Asia, they are more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. They get the job done and frequency is OKAY.

The problem is that the system lacks funding. Bus service is bad. 20+ minutes for some routes (if one bus does not come.. you can wait for 30+ minutes). Sometimes walking is faster.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 05:32 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean
Well, they are very simplistic. If you take a look at those used in Europe or even Asia, they are more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. They get the job done and frequency is OKAY.

The problem is that the system lacks funding. Bus service is bad. 20+ minutes for some routes (if one bus does not come.. you can wait for 30+ minutes). Sometimes walking is faster.
Well in Manhattan that is not as much of a problem, but the outerburroughs you sometimes get that. I think every North American system is like that to a certain extent, when compared to our counterparts in developed Asia and Europe.

Toronto still has a fantastic system, although we must judge it in a North American context. That are several cities that are larger (*COUGH* LA *COUGH*) that have much shitter systems in the US, and some that are comparable in size to GTA (although probably a little bit smaller) that Toronto literally wipes the floor with in terms of quality and access to public transport.

If I had my way, I'd have Spaniards run our systems if only for one reason: growth. I mean, 30 miles of tunnel in 5 years? Piece of cake for them! And with more tunnels comes better systems. We have been talking about a new line under Second Avenue in Manhattan for literally HALF A CENTURY. Had we been Madrid, it would be built in the span of 2 years.
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Old March 28th, 2006, 07:57 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQui
If I had my way, I'd have Spaniards run our systems if only for one reason: growth. I mean, 30 miles of tunnel in 5 years? Piece of cake for them! And with more tunnels comes better systems. We have been talking about a new line under Second Avenue in Manhattan for literally HALF A CENTURY. Had we been Madrid, it would be built in the span of 2 years.
No one seems to have posted this article from the Globe yet. Apparently Spanish red tape is a lot easier to cut through than Canadian.

Quote:
Dr. Gridlock

Need for speed drives Madrid miracle
JEFF GRAY

The provincial government, about to hand over a $670-million cheque to extend Toronto's subway system deep into the wilds of York Region, proclaimed in its budget last week that the move, along with money for bus ways in Brampton and Mississauga, was the beginning of "a new era" for public transit in the Greater Toronto Area. And perhaps it is.

But opening day for the subway extension to Vaughan is, officials estimate, still at least 10 years away, provided Ottawa agrees to pay its share. And waiting another 10 years for eight measly kilometres of subway, after building only about that much in total over the previous 25 years, hardly sounds like a new era. What it sounds like is more of the same.

So what would a real new era in public transit look like? Consider Madrid, population 3 million, at the centre of a region with 5.8 million people. While Toronto took eight years to produce the stub-like, 5.5-kilometre Sheppard subway, this Spanish city and public-transit paradise has built more than 120 kilometres of subway in 10 years. And more tracks, along with new light rail lines and buses, are on the way.

Madrid's new era arrived in the mid-1990s, explains Carlos Cristobal-Pinto, director of planning for Madrid's regional transportation authority, just as the city's suburban population began to expand with increased immigration from Latin America, Eastern Europe and North Africa.

It started slowly, with a 10-kilometre extension of Madrid's circle subway line completed in 1995. But then centre-right politician Alberto Ruiz-Gallardon, now Madrid's mayor, became president of the regional government, after elections in which his party promised to build 28 kilometres of new subways in four years.

Officials in Mr. Cristobal-Pinto's agency thought the scheme was ridiculous, he said: "Twelve, 15, 20 kilometres maybe, but 28 is impossible to build in four years."

Then the government decided it really wanted 55 kilometres, not 28. And still in four years -- in time for the next election, of course. You can almost see Toronto Transit Commission engineers' heads exploding. But the unthinkable happened. Madrid actually built 56.3 kilometres, 38 new stations, all completed on time in 1999 at the cost of 1.6-billion ($2.25-billion), including vehicles.

Now, after building almost an entire TTC subway system (which has 62.6 kilometres of track), Madrid did not sit back and relax. Driven by Mr. Ruiz-Gallardon, Mr. Cristobal-Pinto said, the government promised yet another 55 kilometres, again before elections in four years. And, in 2003, at a cost of 2.8-billion ($3.9-billion), 54.6 kilometres of new subway opened for business, much of it linking suburbs southwest of central Madrid.

How can this be? Mr. Cristobal-Pinto said the government's four-year political deadlines were very clear, so his team simply found a way to make it happen. Plus, environmental assessments in Spain take only three or four months. Here in Ontario, that alone can take two years or more.

The TTC's website on the Spadina subway extension lays out the rest of Toronto's slow-motion process: After an environmental assessment, the design stage can take two to three years. Construction can take as long as four. One TTC official told me that, on the Sheppard line, designing the Sheppard-Yonge station alone took two years.

So perhaps some Spanish-style red-tape cutting over here is in order. There are other things Madrid does differently, too. While this doesn't explain the whole Madrid miracle, the transit agency has been willing to experiment with public-private partnerships. One of the new subway lines is operated by a private firm with a long-term lease, and Madrid is now building several massive underground bus interchanges, with tunnels to whisk buses out of traffic, with private investment. Many bus routes in the region are also run by private firms.

And there is also Mr. Cristobal-Pinto's agency, a broad regional transit body with, it seems, much broader powers than the proposed Greater Toronto Transit Authority, which was again promised in the provincial budget.

Back in Madrid, now with 220 kilometres of subway, they just can't stop building public transit. A 4.4-billion ($6-billion) plan, set for completion by 2007, will build another 47.4 kilometres of subway and 45 kilometres of light rail in suburban areas. And the national government, responsible for highways, plans to build 200 kilometres of bus-only lanes.

"I could keep listening to you all day," said Toronto transit consultant Ed Levy, as Mr. Cristobal-Pinto finished his presentation to a transit conference here. "And crying more copiously as I listen."

But Mr. Cristobal-Pinto seemed to have no magic secret to share with his audience. The reason for the public transit miracle seems actually quite simple: Governments in Spain have simply made public transit a priority, and voters have too.

Mr. Levy added: "The motto is strike while the iron is hot, and strike hard."
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Old March 28th, 2006, 10:05 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeicow
The streetcar cables always seem so strange. W/e I'm downtown I never notice them, but in pictures they always stand our. strange.
You should listen to people complain about how messy Melbourne looks for the same reason. But looking at old photos, it seems that it was once the norm to just have posts in the middle of the road to hold the cables up. Then again, horses are generally smarter at avoiding obstacles than cars.


Having doors only on one side is weird though. I'm just wondering if it's a hinderance to expansion because a lot more room is needed to turn around compared to just having a set of points at termini. The area around the unused doors provides heaps of standing room capacity too.

It's obviously a bit hard to refit the existing fleet - apart from adding doors, you'd need to add a driver's cab on the other side too.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 05:46 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible
Having doors only on one side is weird though. I'm just wondering if it's a hinderance to expansion because a lot more room is needed to turn around compared to just having a set of points at termini. The area around the unused doors provides heaps of standing room capacity too.

It's obviously a bit hard to refit the existing fleet - apart from adding doors, you'd need to add a driver's cab on the other side too.
That's the thing though, the one-side doors are ONLY an issue for termini design. Usually, the easiest way to deal with it, and is done very frequently in the downtown core, is to have the streetcar go around the block. Simple, done, and everybody is happy.
The system is using tracks that were once using horses, keep in mind (well, technically not true since tracks get relaid, but the routes were the same streets). I think there are extremely old pictures predating the almagated TTC where some transit providers were horse driven and others streetcar run, in the same photo.
There hasn't been a lot of expansion since the Spadina Line streetcar (known to locals as the 510, its route number (all streetcar lines are 500-series numbers)). Upgrading the lines has been more of a concern since most of the network has no ROW. A lot of track repair has been happening over the last decade too, eating up available funds that might have allowed some small expansion. The big project right now is turning the St. Clair line (the 512) into a ROW, which it currently isn't.
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Old April 1st, 2006, 12:24 AM   #170
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www.emdx.org





chrisnolan.ca/archive/ID/00000581

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Old April 2nd, 2006, 08:22 AM   #171
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This is gorgeous DrJoe but I don't see why you describe the TTC as "bare bones." It's fantastic.
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 10:33 AM   #172
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for those who complain about the "sometimes" 20 minutes plus wait for TTC busses.

I live on Leslie street, go and check the time table for the Route 51 Leslie bus. if we only have to wait for 20 minutes then we're lucky.

But on the bright side, TTC is on the trend of replacin the entire fleet with with hybird busses. At least the entire Flyer 84-87s.

I think when they said barebone, it's meant in a functional manner. No fancy deesigns or anything, just a box that moves people. Be it an advanced box.





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Old April 2nd, 2006, 10:45 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2
I think when they said barebone, it's meant in a functional manner. No fancy deesigns or anything, just a box that moves people. Be it an advanced box.
TTC uses mainly old stock... they certainly need to be replaced within 15 years.

Even Edmonton metro looks a bit more modern than TTC--- as well as functional.
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 11:09 AM   #174
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 11:20 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xntrx
TTC uses mainly old stock... they certainly need to be replaced within 15 years.

Even Edmonton metro looks a bit more modern than TTC--- as well as functional.
The TTC didn't make a single order between 1991 and 1999.

But they are seriously stressing now.

Between 2002 and 2005, they ordered 800 Orion 7s. I mentioned before they were going to replace the Flyer D-901s, I was wrong. Looks like they are on their way of finally loosing their GMC New Looks and Classics. Ofcourse The D-901s will be gone, along with the D-40-87/88/90

TTC did order some Flyer D-40 LFs, but it looks like they are favouring the Orion 7s.

New Flyer D-40 LF




Orion 7

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Last edited by UD2; April 2nd, 2006 at 11:25 AM.
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 11:36 AM   #176
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the TTC got around 50 Nova RTS series busses. They were built to New York Transit standards. I wouldn't be surprised if these are NY surplus orders. The TTC was so desperate in that period that they would've taken anything.

There are beautiful busses, only had the chance to take them once. Loved it.

Only one order was made, after than the TTC moved on to low floor models.





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Old April 26th, 2006, 07:24 AM   #177
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New Hybrid bus for TTC!

http://www.orionbus.com/orion/0-867-...0-0-0-0-0.html

Toronto Transit Commission Today Received First Vehicle for Fleet of 150 Orion Hybrid Buses


Orion VII Hybrid Electric
Toronto, Ontario (April 20, 2006) Today, the Toronto Transit Commission receives the first hybrid electric bus from Orion Bus Industries, a division of DaimlerChrysler Commercial Buses North America. In a ceremony held today at Nathan Phillips Square, Member of Parliament Mike Wallace, Ontario Minister of Transportation Harinder Takhar, and Toronto Mayor David Miller will accept the first vehicle of a fleet of 150 hybrid electric buses. These buses will be the TTCs first hybrid models and will give Toronto the largest hybrid electric bus fleet in Canada.



----
By the time all 800 or so Orion VII buses are delivered, this will replace the GM New Look as the most represented type in the TTC fleet.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 08:52 PM   #178
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I just stumbled across somebody's photo from March 2006 of an older subway car that had an orange stripe below the passengers windows. Does anybody know why the new livery?

Cheers,
Chris
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Old May 7th, 2006, 01:51 AM   #179
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They're subway cars from the 1960-1970's that were retired and brought back to life as work cars.
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Old May 7th, 2006, 01:58 AM   #180
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so they are using those rust-buckets now??
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