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Old May 15th, 2005, 09:09 AM   #41
MSPtoMKE
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It is LRT with underground sections. I guess i have a hard time believing this is the biggest in the EU. Big, certainly, but the biggest?
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Old May 15th, 2005, 03:56 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPtoMKE
It is LRT with underground sections. I guess i have a hard time believing this is the biggest in the EU. Big, certainly, but the biggest?
Yes, it's LRT with underground section.
I also have a hard time believing it's the biggest construction project in EU.
What about Madrid's metro expansions for example?
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Old May 15th, 2005, 04:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPtoMKE
It is LRT with underground sections. I guess i have a hard time believing this is the biggest in the EU. Big, certainly, but the biggest?

it is what they say on ther official website:

http://www.metro-porto.pt/uk/

The introduction of a light rail system in the Metropolitan Area of Porto is a true revolution in the field of transports and mobility in this Region.

For the citizens, more than a long yearned project, the Metro is a new concept of public transportation, an efficient, comfortable, safe and modern reality. The Metro do Porto, being the largest investment in the transport sector currently underway in the European Union, is, at all levels, an extraordinary motor of development for the Metropolitan Area of Porto and for the Country.

With its 70 km in length, 66 stations and 4 lines, the Metro do Porto network was designed thinking of the people and their commuting needs.

On the other hand, the Metro network associates speed and manoeuvrability with a strong urban and landscape renewal component, which, as you may realise, qualifies and values all the councils in this Region. Our entire urban environment is being transformed. A transformation towards quality and modernisation.

Here at Metro do Porto we value information and the contact with our fellow citizens and clients. We are also an enterprise that embodies the new technologies as an added value in communication. I invite you, therefore, to visit our website and get to know Metro do Porto from the inside.

Valentim Loureiro
President of the Administration Council
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Last edited by Pedrocid; May 15th, 2005 at 04:48 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 04:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto
Yes, it's LRT with underground section.
I also have a hard time believing it's the biggest construction project in EU.
What about Madrid's metro expansions for example?

why don't you watch tv? They keep saying that every time they talk about Porto's underground/Light Rail network
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Old May 15th, 2005, 04:27 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
Sounds great but is Porto large enough to justify such an expensive system. Whey not LRT with sopme underground sections?
How big is Porto? I thought it only had about a million.
Porto Agglomeration is 1.2 million , but believe me, we NEEDED a mass transit system like this one. People who lived in the suburbs suffered a lot for many decades.
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Last edited by Pedrocid; May 15th, 2005 at 04:47 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 04:44 PM   #46
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Amazing! I wish Thessaloniki had one too
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Old May 15th, 2005, 05:27 PM   #47
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Good descriptions of the Porto Metro can be found at the following websites:

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/por/porto.htm
http://world.nycsubway.org/eu/pt/portometro.html

The Porto system is called "Metro" but it might be better described as "Light Rail" or "Light Metro". At least there is an underground section. The misapplication of the term "Metro" is not as egregious as Houston's MetroRail, which is a light rail system that runs entirely on city streets. Another US light rail system that uses of the word "Metro" in its name is Sanit Louis's MetroLink. The Saint Louis system has a grade-separated right of way and utilizes high level platforms, so it could qualify as a "Light Metro".
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Old May 15th, 2005, 06:29 PM   #48
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That makes more sence. Will the entire section be completly grade separated. Is it light rail in the European sence or rapid tranit LRT in the N.A. sence.
Connected trains, ROW, large subway like stations, pedestrian overpasses and elevators like Calgary's CTrain? www.members.shaw.ca/lrtincalgary/ to compare.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 07:16 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
That makes more sence. Will the entire section be completly grade separated.
only within the perimeter of the city itself.
Within Porto (zones C1 , C2 and C6 in the map) it never crosses any roads, motorways, etc. It goes undergorund in the centre (zone C1).


Quote:
s it light rail in the European sence or rapid tranit LRT in the N.A. sence.
Connected trains, ROW, large subway like stations, pedestrian overpasses and elevators like Calgary's CTrain? www.members.shaw.ca/lrtincalgary/ to compare.

like I said the stations in the historical centre of the city are all large "subway like stations". Try to find "Trindade" or "Bolhão" , for instance. It does look like an underground system in the centre. In the suburbs (Matosinhos for instance) it's much more like a tramway, crossing roads, and "bus-like" stations" if you know what I mean..
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Old May 15th, 2005, 07:16 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kostya
Amazing! I wish Thessaloniki had one too
Thessaloniki is beginning construction of one:

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/the/thessal.htm
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/greece/
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/ne....asp?aid=49864
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Old May 15th, 2005, 11:17 PM   #51
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I must say that even on the outher suburbs, the "metro" always has it's own right of way. It never needs to stops between station, regardless off the road trafic. Its completelly independant from road traffic. Just like german's Stadtbahns systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrocid
why don't you watch tv? They keep saying that every time they talk about Porto's underground/Light Rail network
I do whatch TV. But i know the media are not a good source for reliable information.
Nor is the Metro do Porto website for this matter.
Call me a skeptic!
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Old May 16th, 2005, 03:25 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto
I must say that even on the outher suburbs, the "metro" always has it's own right of way. It never needs to stops between station, regardless off the road trafic. Its completelly independant from road traffic. Just like german's Stadtbahns systems.



I do whatch TV. But i know the media are not a good source for reliable information.
Nor is the Metro do Porto website for this matter.
Call me a skeptic!

yes! You're right! Sorry guys I forgot to mention this! The traisn always have right of xway whenever there's a junction. But, indeed, this only happens ouside of the city perimeter, being waht I said accurate within the city peremeter (ithre are no junctions within the city) thanks Nephasto for reminding us.


I still think that it is plausible this is the biggest investment in the EU in public transports; I don't know the figures, and despite hating Valentim Loureiro (the president of Metro do Porto) he might actually be saying the truth .. if someone has the figures please show them, it's all I have to say. Until then I'll believe this is the biggest public transportation project/construction within the EU.
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Last edited by Pedrocid; May 17th, 2005 at 02:31 AM.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 09:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrocid
I still think it is plausible that this is the biggest investment from the EU in public transports; I don't know the figures, and despite hating Valentim Loureiro (the president of Metro do Porto) he might actually be saying the truth .. if someone has the figures please show them, it's all I have to say. Until then I'll believe this is the biggest public transportation project/construction within the EU.
Pedro, I don't have figures as well... I just find it hard to believe, when I see big metro networks like madrid expanding so fast: 30+ km of "heavy" metro and some 40+ km of light metro for the 2003-2007 expansion --> Isn't this a bigger investment?! That's would be natural, because Madrid is a much larger city than Porto.
Anyway, when they started saying that about it being the biggest investment in europe, Madrid's 2003-2007 program had not be annouced yet...
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Old May 21st, 2005, 11:48 PM   #54
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Old June 7th, 2005, 12:40 AM   #55
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Old June 7th, 2005, 01:31 AM   #56
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Can someone explain to me the difference between Light and Heavy Metro?

This is probably the biggest single project, because the extensions in Madrid are considered "separate" projects? I think there is some word play at hand here.
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Old June 7th, 2005, 03:21 AM   #57
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czm3, if you are familiar with the Boston transit system, the Green Line could be classified as a Light Metro (In the European sense) or Light Rail while the Red, Orange, and Blue Lines are Heavy Metro. There is some give and take with the definitions. You can list common characteristics of each type, but there is not really one defining factor that diferentiates the types. Heavy Rail Metros are generally completely grade seperated (no street crossings) and often (but not always) powered by a third rail. Light Rail is more flexable and can run in tunnels, at grade, etc, etc. As i write this it occurs to me that maybe you know all that already, and are wonder about how a Light Metro is different than Light Rail and Heavy Rail? I would think that a Light Metro would be similar to Light Rail, but generally having significant metro-like characteristics such as tunnels, etc. It all gets down to classification, and the definitions can be a little blurry.
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Old June 7th, 2005, 03:44 AM   #58
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Thank you MSPtoMKE.

That was a very insightful post. I am still a little confused, but maybe we all are. If we talk about load, any metro, subway, S bahn, etc is light rail. And those long cargo trains are heavy rail.

Sometimes I feel that we get too caught up in the details. Maybe we should talk about good metro (DC) and bad metro (Boston)

Anyway, I think it is absolutly amazing that a city like Porto can decide to see that rail is the future, and implement a plan like this. I wish my fellow countrymen (and senators) could see this...
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Old June 7th, 2005, 04:01 AM   #59
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BTW MSPtoMKE

I love hypnotoad, Futurama for life!!!
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Old June 7th, 2005, 02:22 PM   #60
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