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Old November 10th, 2011, 09:32 PM   #21
xrtn2
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autobahns is a german word, so could add the word autovia( means the same in portuguese and spanish)
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Old November 10th, 2011, 10:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De Klauw View Post
Where? Cars are a merely new inventions so I don't think you have to expect the first limited-access road (Autobahn-style) in Asia, Africa or South America in the beginning of the 20th century. According to Wikipedia the first limited-access road was constructed in Italy.
The first German motorway is older than the first Italian. The first German motorway opened in 1921 in Berlin. It was the AVUS and thats a part of A115 or E51. The first Italian motorway opened in 1924. So the first motorway in the world is German.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 10:29 PM   #23
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It's not that easy. AVUS was a race track, not general purpose public road. It was later grandfathered into the A115 as a Reichsautobahn. The first real German Autobahn dates back to 1935. A555 is often cited but it had no central reservation.

Italy did not have any motorway before the mid 1950's. All Autostrade built before the war were single lane. The only thing in common with current Autostrade is that they were tolled and mostly grade-separated.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 10:35 PM   #24
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According to Wikipedia there are two different thoughts about it: whot thinks the first motorway is german, it's cause AVUS in Berlin opened in 1921, like you said. Who thinks the first motorway is italian, it's cause the first italian motorway was projected for to facilitate the vehicular traffic, while the AVUS was born with two targets: for the traffic and for to test cars as the name means (Automobil Verkehrs und Übungs-Straße). And besides this, cause in different part of the world streets with same characteristics are called with the name of italian derivation "autostrada"
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Old November 10th, 2011, 10:36 PM   #25
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Italy did not have any motorway before the mid 1950's. All Autostrade built before the war were single lane. The only thing in common with current Autostrade is that they were tolled and mostly grade-separated.
A1 Milan - Parma opened on 07-12-58 was our first real motorway.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 10:43 PM   #26
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Unless it was the Harlem River Speedway or Long Island Motor Parkway. :-P
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Old November 10th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #27
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As far as I know the Long Island Motor Parkway was the first grade-separated motor vehicle road in the world. It opened in 1908 and was closed in 1938 and was a two-lane road. The first New York parkway was the Bronx River Parkway in the early 1920's, but most parkways from the 1920's and 1930's were not up to contemporary motorway / freeway standards. Many allowed left turns or had no median.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 11:14 PM   #28
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Last time this question came up, I found that the Harlem River Speedway opened in the 1890s, as a place for people to race horses and carriages. It opened to motor vehicles in 1913. (If memory serves; can't find the information now.)

I think it was limited-access by virtue of its location, and it was incorporated into the Harlem River Drive - which is indisputably a freeway - under Robert Moses.

Here are some pictures:

http://www.coffeedrome.com/bobspeed.html
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:13 AM   #29
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And I always thought the vast majority of native English speakers lives in India... Silly me!
Very true. Vast majority of native English speakers do live in India not in USA.

@ Penn's Wood....We all know how much Wikipedia is dependable.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:33 AM   #30
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Very true. Vast majority of native English speakers do live in India not in USA.

@ Penn's Wood....We all know how much Wikipedia is dependable.
Indians speak English as second language, although most of them know it well. In USA English it's the official language.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:47 AM   #31
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Very true. Vast majority of native English speakers do live in India not in USA.

@ Penn's Wood....We all know how much Wikipedia is dependable.
Neither of those sentences is one a native speaker of English would have produced....

Here's another source:

http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Census...Statement1.htm
That's the Indian census. Which reports a number of native speakers of English in India that is smaller than the population of, say, Minneapolis.

Or, if you prefer to inflate the figure to include everyone who "uses" English, whether they learned it in infancy or as a second language in school:
http://www.languageinindia.com/may20....html#chapter5
Which is about one-ninth the population of the United States or half the population of the United Kingdom.

But what does it matter? "Highway" and "road" are not synonymous in the United States or Canada. Period. Whatever people in Bulgaria may think.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:48 AM   #32
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Indians speak English as second language, although most of them know it well. In USA English it's the official language.
The official language of the Indian Union is Hindi with English as an additional language for official work
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's not that easy. AVUS was a race track, not general purpose public road. It was later grandfathered into the A115 as a Reichsautobahn. The first real German Autobahn dates back to 1935. A555 is often cited but it had no central reservation.

Italy did not have any motorway before the mid 1950's. All Autostrade built before the war were single lane. The only thing in common with current Autostrade is that they were tolled and mostly grade-separated.
Yes I know that! The first motorways in Italy were not what we call motorways. Maybe expressways, but some of them were not built in a standard that we can put expressway-signs on them now if they had been in that standard now.

In Germany AVUS was a race track. It was also built for testing cars. But that road was working like a motorway too. It was only for motor vehicles and it was not built like a normal race track. It was from already from the begin built like a dual carriageway in what we think is motorway standard. It had a median from the begin and it was separated from other roads and traffic. So the AVUS was the first road with motorway standard. But in 1921 no one knew what a motorway was and it was no plans to build a motorway network.

I dont know anything about the US. But here in Europe the motorway networks was from the begin a sort of combination from AVUS and the old Italian single lane Autostradas. It was the idea of the Italian roads, but they were built with a standard from AVUS.

One interesting thing with the AVUS is that it was planned already in 1907. They started to build AVUS in 1913 but the WW1 stopped this project. So AVUS was delated and opened in 1921 and was financed by Hugo Stinnes.

So maybe Hugo Stinnes is the father of the motorways here in Europe?

Everytime when I go to Berlin I'm driving at the A115 (AVUS). Just because I'm a motorway fan and I think that motorway is very special.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 04:50 AM   #34
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The oldest motorway may be German, but the oldest wheel was found 20 km from my house. :P

Last edited by Verso; November 11th, 2011 at 04:59 AM.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Indians speak English as second language, although most of them know it well. In USA English it's the official language.
United States have no official language.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
Yes I know that! The first motorways in Italy were not what we call motorways. Maybe expressways, but some of them were not built in a standard that we can put expressway-signs on them now if they had been in that standard now.
Well, Italian first "autostrade" were just what the name suggests: "strade" (roads) built expressly for automobiles, not some converted old coach roads. It's the definition of autostrade that changed in the meantime.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 01:51 PM   #37
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The name of the thread is just OK.

"Autobahns" are symbol of the roads/motorways:
- they have (in parts) no speed limit
- they are technically synonim for quality of motorways
- Germans were the first to build them in a way and purpose we know them today.

It's the same as we usually don't translate "Vorsprung durch technik"!
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Old November 11th, 2011, 02:30 PM   #38
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Or "Das Auto"
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Old November 11th, 2011, 03:32 PM   #39
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Here some images of the pre-war italian highways.


Milano-Laghi, the first one:



Milano-Torino:



The first junction
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Old November 11th, 2011, 04:26 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mmmartin View Post
The name of the thread is just OK.

"Autobahns" are symbol of the roads/motorways:
- they have (in parts) no speed limit
- they are technically synonim for quality of motorways
- Germans were the first to build them in a way and purpose we know them today.

It's the same as we usually don't translate "Vorsprung durch technik"!
We could at least correct the plural: It's Autobahnen.

[exits hastily, dodging brickbats]

[sticks head back in, cautiously]But, um, if - just if - we're changing the name of the forum*, "highways and Autobahnen" doesn't in fact cover all roads. Of course, we'd also need to change most of the country thread titles.

*Personally, I don't care.[scrams]
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