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Old November 16th, 2011, 08:44 PM   #1
gincan
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MISC | Ansaldo Breda

Why the hell isn't this company blacklisted by the EU? Everything I have ever read about this company is that they are FUBARing everything they are involved in.

If it's not the worthless IC4 in Denmark, then it is the worthless new trams in Gothenburg or the worthless new V250 HSR train in Holland or the worthless ETR 500 in Italy.

What the hell is going on? Why is this maffia shite organization allowed to continue with their scams, all they do is robbing money from taxpayers all over europe
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Old November 16th, 2011, 09:10 PM   #2
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Calm down. They offer better prices than other train makers, and get contracts.

The V250 project is recovering after previous problems - finally.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Calm down. They offer better prices than other train makers, and get contracts.

The V250 project is recovering after previous problems - finally.
They sell you a Ferrari and then you find out after delivery that in reality it was a Fiat with a broke gearbox.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 09:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by gincan View Post
They sell you a Ferrari and then you find out after delivery that in reality it was a Fiat with a broke gearbox.
The problem is that people contracting them usually mixup the specs and other things during the project, and AnsaldoBreda is less flexible with protocol adjustments than other train maker. So they can argue in courts forever.

There is no such "blacklisting" of an European company operating under the law of an European state.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 02:19 AM   #5
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Suburbanist has stock in AnsaldoBreda.

Always defending incompetence.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 04:17 AM   #6
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Suburbanist has stock in AnsaldoBreda.

Always defending incompetence.
I don't own any shares of Finmeccaninca (the holding of which AnsaldoBreda is part of).
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Old November 17th, 2011, 04:54 AM   #7
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Finmeccanica is facing major financial problems due to economic crysis in Italy. Just a few days ago stocks plunged losing 20% in one day.

We're having major delays in Italy as well on deliveries from Ansando Breda, FinCantieri and Alenia, and we're sorry for delays all around the world.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 07:59 AM   #8
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The problem is that people contracting them usually mixup the specs and other things during the project, and AnsaldoBreda is less flexible with protocol adjustments than other train maker.
So you are conceding that it is a less customer orientated company than the other rolling stock suppliers?
Because it looks like it will either have to adapt to the realities of the market, or disappear. There are companies out there after all that manage to deliver reliable train sets on time and on budget...
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Old November 17th, 2011, 08:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Why the hell isn't this company blacklisted by the EU?
It's not up to the EU to "blacklist" companies. It's up to the railways not to consider their offers when writing out a tender. I suspect that the V250 will probably be the last train AnsaldoBreda will sell outside of Italy for a while...
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Old November 17th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #10
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This firm is the epitome of poor performance, and frankly I'm disappointed that people still buy rolling stock from them. Just let it die for christ's sake.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 12:28 PM   #11
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That's true, and even italian railways should stop buying AnsaldoBreda trains!
In Italy we still have othe non-state owned companies, that can work much better, even if they don't get any order from the state railways
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Old November 17th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
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So you are conceding that it is a less customer orientated company than the other rolling stock suppliers?
Of course. There is no point negating that. They work like it were 1992 in terms of project specification and didn't implement design-adjust-build philosophy at all.

Quote:
Because it looks like it will either have to adapt to the realities of the market, or disappear. There are companies out there after all that manage to deliver reliable train sets on time and on budget...
Finmeccaninca is considering either selling the rolling stock unit, and/or shutting down the long-distance stock unit (retaining only the subway, light-rail and tram unit).
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Old November 17th, 2011, 02:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
It's not up to the EU to "blacklist" companies. It's up to the railways not to consider their offers when writing out a tender. I suspect that the V250 will probably be the last train AnsaldoBreda will sell outside of Italy for a while...
In certain cases, laws prevent railway companies owned by governments for not considering a bid from a capable supplier.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 02:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In certain cases, laws prevent railway companies owned by governments for not considering a bid from a capable supplier.
Capable supplier? Well no law will force anyone to consider AnsaldoBreda, then
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Old November 17th, 2011, 04:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
...retaining only the subway, light-rail and tram unit).
Makes sense. They're supplying rolling stock to LA's Metro (apparently they have the unions "bought"), and they are going to have the Honolulu Light Rail Project. SF Muni also.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Why the hell isn't this company blacklisted by the EU? Everything I have ever read about this company is that they are FUBARing everything they are involved in.

If it's not the worthless IC4 in Denmark, then it is the worthless new trams in Gothenburg or the worthless new V250 HSR train in Holland or the worthless ETR 500 in Italy.

What the hell is going on? Why is this maffia shite organization allowed to continue with their scams, all they do is robbing money from taxpayers all over europe
Can we have sources for these claims, specific cases and problems, please
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Old November 18th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #17
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Finmeccanica looks to sell off Ansaldo-Breda:

Quote:
As part of a 1 billion euro asset sell-off by the end of 2012, Finmeccanica will also move ahead with talks to sell loss-making rail unit Ansaldo Breda.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...07&c=EUR&s=TOP

A different article says Bombardier is the favored suitor...
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Old November 18th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #18
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For example the V250.
The trains were orderd in 2005 by HSA and NMBS.
The first v250 came in the end off april 2009 in holland when all the 19 trains should have been deliverd around 2007.
Right now they are still testing the trains and not all the trains are dellivered yet.
According to the latest rumors, the V250 train can't past a test to get a 1000 km without a mallfunction.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Can we have sources for these claims, specific cases and problems, please
To help your knowledge of the problems with the Danish IC4 train sets, here is an article from the International Railway Journal on the subject.
The reason DSB decided, after this article was published, to continue with the project is mainly because it would be more expensive to abandon the project than to more or less rebuild the trains themselves and get them to work.
At this moment all IC4 trains are grounded, because of 2 cases of brake failures, leading to trains passing signals showing red. Luckily no accidents.

PS. The transport minister mentioned in the article is no longer part of the government having lost a general election to the Social Democrats.


[IMG]http://i44.************/nlvsqp.jpg[/IMG]
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Old November 18th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Can we have sources for these claims, specific cases and problems, please
Do you really want me to digg up tons of articles about the continous FUBARing of all the rail-contracts awarded to Ansaldobreda?
Here is one from 2009 about the FUBARed IC4

Executives at the state rail service have a backup plan ready in case its next generation of passenger trains are not delivered by the May deadline. National rail service DSB has indicated that it doubts whether Italian company Ansaldobreda can meet its deadline to deliver 14 IC4 passenger trains by May.

After repeated delays delivering the latest generation of passenger trains, DSB gave Ansaldobreda a final ultimatum last year that the first of a total of 83 IC4s would be in service by May 2009. Ansaldobreda was originally supposed to have delivered the first the IC4s by 2003, with all being fully operational by 2006.

Eight trains have been delivered, but only three are operational, and all still have problems, according to DSB. ‘I’d like to be able to say that I hope the deadline is met, but I’ve stopped believing in the IC4,’ said Søren Eriksen, DSB’s managing director, told TV2 news.

Eriksen said DSB was initiating a back-up plan should the IC4s not arrive in May. He said up to 45 double-decker trains, along with three IC3s and an additional three InterCityExpress trains loaned from Germany’s state rail service Deutsche Bahn will be ready to be put into service. He added that the failed delivery of the IC4s would result in DSB having to annul its 5 billion kroner contract with Ansaldobreda. DSB has already paid Ansaldobreda 3.5 billion kroner.

A spokesperson from Ansaldobreda told The Copenhagen Post that the company was not a liberty to comment on the situation. Currently, one IC4 train operates Monday through Thursday between Aalborg, Aarhus and Copenhagen.
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