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Old March 5th, 2014, 03:48 PM   #261
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I'm also not sure if Finmaccanica would like to divest from STS.

Maybe if someone buys AnsaldoBreda they can fix and revive the V250 project then
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Old March 5th, 2014, 05:17 PM   #262
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Finmeccanica wants to get rid of both Breda and STS as they feel that those companies aren't relevant to their core business. Selling both companies at the same time increases the value of the package as Ansaldo STS is succesful, integration between Breda and STS (along with the necessary improvements to quality control etc.) might result in a specialized rail company in a way similar to Alstom Transport.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 09:33 PM   #263
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Interesting. According to several Dutch news sources NS has struck a deal with AB. The deal involves returning all V250 sets for a 125 million euro refund. If the returned sets ever gets sold to somebody else NS gets an additional 21 million euros per set sold.
The articles also state that the main reason for this deal was that both parties didn't like the thought of time and resource consuming lawsuits.
An agreement is one thing, to receive the actual payment is second. After all AB has made several promises before.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #264
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If NS lawyers are half-good, they got a financial guarantee from Finmeccanica.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 10:24 PM   #265
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The news articles on the deal specifically mention that the deal is between the NS, AnsaldoBreda & Finmeccanica.

Anyway, the NS gets much more then I expected. I consider this a great loss for AnsaldoBreda, they probably understood that they would not have won the court case over this delayed and substandard product. Even though the NS completely messed up with original tender and the the contracts that came out of it. That doesn't mean that the manufacturer can also screw up completely, even if it's still inside the terms of the contract.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 11:13 PM   #266
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Quote:
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If the returned sets ever gets sold to somebody else NS gets an additional 21 million euros per set sold.
Really? I figured they would get an amount per set, with a total maximum of 21 million euro. The press release seems very ambiguously written. (http://i.imgur.com/0UafKkS.jpg)

If they would get 21 million per set, they would get more back from AnsaldoBreda than they paid for it (I believe 20 million per set), on top of the 125 million euro they already agreed upon.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 11:30 PM   #267
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Per train set NS will receive a piece of the sale price with a maximum of 21 million euros. It's definitely NOT 21 million euros per set.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 11:46 PM   #268
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Who could be a costumer for these train sets?

Maybe NTV decides to buy these trains to start new services
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Old March 18th, 2014, 02:32 AM   #269
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As is publicly known Finmeccanica wants to sell off its rail division, and has recently found some potential Chinese buyers. Having a company without any outstanding legal disputes is more attractive to potential buyers as this reduces the risk of a judge ruling that the customer should get its money back or something.

The outcome as agreed between NS, Finmeccanica and AnsaldoBreda is probably the best for AB's future (I see Finmeccanica closing down the entire factory if they can't sell it). For AnsaldoBreda, this is yet another write-off in their books. This goes nicely along the payments made to DSB to compensate for the IC 4 losses and the ongoing disputes with other customers.

I don't expect the V250 trains to ever carry passengers again, their reputation has been ruined by the piss-poor performance in the 6 weeks that they carried passengers, SNCB's and NS's press conferences only made things worse.

I don't see NTV buying these trains. The trains would require a major overhaul (both interior and exterior) to fit along the rest of NTV's fleet and service offerings, and even then it's very uncertain if they will ever match the performance of NTV's AGV fleet. NTV can't afford getting its reputation tarnished because of the V250 fleet.

All in all, the V250 story is a very sad story that has no winners, only losers. The biggest loser being the passenger, but that's the way it is.
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Old March 20th, 2014, 03:40 AM   #270
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If the price would be heavily cut, they might find customers for those trinsets in Russia, Poland, Turkey, Morroco, Algeria, or some other place like that. At a fair price, they definetly could be sold...In the end, in many contries rail operators are buying 30 years old trainsets...
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Old March 20th, 2014, 10:30 AM   #271
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But not high speed trainsets. There is a difference in running at 160 km/h and 250 km/h.
And regardless of the country, high speed trains should be reliable which can be hardly said about the above mentioned ones.
It's true that some rail operator could buy them at reduced price and limit the speed, but still, they'd risk a lot, especially image-wise.
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Old March 21st, 2014, 10:05 AM   #272
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All the problems with poor finish can be fixed. Also if you limit Vmax to 200 km/h you're allowed a higher axle load, which you can use to strenghten weak parts.
If you then use the train in countries that do not have massive corrosion causing weather (e.g. Algeria?) the trains could have a decent service life ahead of them.
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Old March 21st, 2014, 04:34 PM   #273
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Except Algeria probably doesn't have the know-how to maintain 19 different semi-highspeed trains.
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Old March 21st, 2014, 04:46 PM   #274
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Are they really different trains, or just trains with individual adaptations deployed during assembling of parts?
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Old March 21st, 2014, 04:55 PM   #275
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Are they really different trains, or just trains with individual adaptations deployed during assembling of parts?
Main mechanical parts are of course identical, but not two sets have exactly the same electrical wiring...
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Old March 21st, 2014, 08:40 PM   #276
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The differences in assembly is something which can be fixed. AB did the same with 14 IC4 trainsets and those have all been retrofitted.
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Old March 21st, 2014, 09:06 PM   #277
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I keep wondering why they assembled trains like that first place... usually, making these custom installation is more (not less) expensive. The factory engineers must give some detailed plans and drawings for the workers to execute, unless the workers were ignoring official drawings (something that is not only counterproductive but dangerous), that would mean redrawing individual plans for each train on a "learn-on-the-job" basis.
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Old March 22nd, 2014, 06:30 PM   #278
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What I understood from the leaked Mott McDonald's executive summary, the quality of the technical drawings was good. However, the engineers who built the actual trains did not follow the drawings to the letter and this was not dealt with during production.

To me it sounds like the engineers need some discipline: despite their technological expertise, they should not deviate from the designs as this only complicates the maintenance process.
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Old March 23rd, 2014, 10:58 PM   #279
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I keep wondering why they assembled trains like that first place... usually, making these custom installation is more (not less) expensive. The factory engineers must give some detailed plans and drawings for the workers to execute, unless the workers were ignoring official drawings (something that is not only counterproductive but dangerous), that would mean redrawing individual plans for each train on a "learn-on-the-job" basis.
That's what I heard.

Apparently there is the same problem with the Bombardier Zefiros built by AnsaldoBreda.
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Old March 24th, 2014, 02:33 AM   #280
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Really? That would surprise me as AB is a subcontractor to Bombardier, with adequate quality control (by BBD) this should've been spotted very early on.

Then again, you never know with AB.
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