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Old March 24th, 2014, 03:01 PM   #281
M-NL
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Indeed. An interesting point from the Mott McDonald's executive summary is that NS/NMBS had the oppurtunity to closely monitor that the building process proceded as designed, yet didn't. In many cases they decided to approve several progress stages, without ever setting foot in the factory for checking it's accuracy.
After everything that has happened with AB in the past I would be very very surprised if Bombardier has made the same mistake, especially since Bombardier is an experienced train builder.
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Old April 4th, 2014, 10:19 PM   #282
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Ansaldo Breda produced a new corporate video focusing on its contract to manufacture rolling stock for ATM (the urban transportation agency of Milano, Italy)

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Old May 5th, 2014, 07:00 PM   #283
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FNM BELGIAN RAILWAYS NMBS/SNCB, ANSALDOBREDA AND FINMECCANICA CONCLUDE V250 CASE

FNM Belgian Railways NMBS/SNCB, AnsaldoBreda and Finmeccanica conclude V250 case.
The Belgian Railways (NMBS/SNCB), AnsaldoBreda and its controlling company Finmeccanica have settled their discord regarding the V250-trains

The companies have reached an agreement on their dispute concerning the V250-trains and the termination of the V250 Purchase Agreement. The newly reached solution includes the payment of 2.5 million euros to NMBS/SNCB. The settlement was reached from the advantages both parties see in preventing lengthy legal proceedings. This agreement allows AnsaldoBreda to exert its energy and financial means towards high-speed train projects with other customers, while the NMBS/SNCB can close the case and completely focus on its business activities. The agreement will allow AnsaldoBreda to exploit the possibility of selling trains to other customers and with some customizations make them fit for other requirements and needs of such customers. As part of the agreement both parties will refrain from making financial claims, including supposed damages on both sides. NMBS/SNCB is aware that NS and NSFC have already reached a settlement agreement regarding the V250-trains and defers to the statements of NS and NS FSC in that settlement agreement.

Source: Ansaldo Breda
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Old May 5th, 2014, 07:38 PM   #284
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It is good they forego litigation.

It is sad that it is the definitive sign no attempt to fix and re-deliver the V250 to operate in Belgium and Netherlands will be made
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Old May 6th, 2014, 08:57 AM   #285
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It is sad that it is the definitive sign no attempt to fix and re-deliver the V250 to operate in Belgium and Netherlands will be made
Why sad? Don't you think there's been waaay too many problems with those trains already? Let AB take it back pay SNCB back, so they can consider buying something more reliable.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:31 PM   #286
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SNCB will probably never acquire HST for their own use ever again. Given that 'regular' intercity trains wil probably move up to the 230-249 km/h speed range, the time advantage a proper HST will reach in the short distances between stations in Belgium is negligable. For international services they already have a stake in Thalys.
The same is probably true for the Netherlands, except there NS owns a few ICE3M sets for services to Germany.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 05:29 PM   #287
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except there NS owns a few ICE3M sets for services to Germany.
The same way SNCB owns several of the Thalys sets. At the beginning :

- 4301-4307 Owned by SNCB
- 4321-4322 Owned by DB
- 4331-4332 Owned by NS
- 4341-4346 Owned by SNCF

(Only PBKA sets, all PBA owned by SNCF)

But I'm not sure that NS, and even less DB, still have their ones, and if so,
who owns them now.

There is also still a possibility that SNCB, CFL, SNCF and CFF buy together
a small set of (tilting ?) trains for the Brussels-Zurich route. I6/I10 cars
used on those trains today won't last forever... We'll see how this evolves
once the LGV-est is fully opened.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 05:32 PM   #288
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I'll wait now to see what will AB do with its V250 trainsets. If they can be fixed within 18 months, AB should find a new buyer, maybe some open-access would-be enterprise that can start with a fleet of 19 trains already, customized to wherever they want to run them.

Maybe ItaloTreno might be interested in buying them with help of some tax credits from the Italian gov't, though that is not ideal.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 08:48 AM   #289
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As an open access operator I would steer clear of these sets as far as possible. Even when they completely rebuild them, there is no guarantee reliable trainsets will result. Because of the limited rolling stock a small open access operator usually has, a few defective train sets can wordt case lead to bankruptcy.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 11:47 AM   #290
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Quote:
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There is also still a possibility that SNCB, CFL, SNCF and CFF buy together
a small set of (tilting ?) trains for the Brussels-Zurich route. I6/I10 cars
used on those trains today won't last forever... We'll see how this evolves
once the LGV-est is fully opened.
I find it more likely that some SBB ETR 610 sets would be used for that. SBB wants to order more trains for international services on the North-South routes. Originally they wanted more ETR 610 sets, but the Swiss Authorities won't let them. So it will be a new design. I could imagine SBB preferring a unified fleet for Italy services, and hence putting the ETR 610 sets on other services. For the Brussel - Zürich route they are quite suitable.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 11:53 AM   #291
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I could imagine SBB preferring a unified fleet for Italy services, and hence putting the ETR 610 sets on other services. For the Brussel - Zürich route they are quite suitable.
Well... that attempt was called Cisalpino
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Old May 7th, 2014, 06:49 PM   #292
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I find it more likely that some SBB ETR 610 sets would be used for that. SBB wants to order more trains for international services on the North-South routes. Originally they wanted more ETR 610 sets, but the Swiss Authorities won't let them. So it will be a new design. I could imagine SBB preferring a unified fleet for Italy services, and hence putting the ETR 610 sets on other services. For the Brussel - Zürich route they are quite suitable.
It would be nice to see that happening. But the route might be diverted via the LGV est and nord rather than the current itinerary through Luxemburg.
Are the ETR610 able to run on french LGVs ?
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Old May 7th, 2014, 10:06 PM   #293
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They are (they can run under 3, 15 and 25 kV), but at 250 km/h "only".

@Sub: Cisalpino was to have two types of trains, the ETR 470 and the ETR 610. Some SBB's Re 484 (Bombardier Traxx) and coaches (both SBB and Trenitalia) also had Cisalpino livrery, but these were supposed to be replaced by the 610s.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 10:10 PM   #294
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I thought the ETR 470 were a temporary solution only, until enough ETR 610 could be put in service.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 10:39 PM   #295
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Cisalpino had options to buy additional 610s to replace the 470s (9 sets which it bought around 1996), but the initial 14 ETR 610s were to increase the fleet.

It's because of the options inherited by Cisalpino that SBB could buy the 8 additional 610s, which hopefully will be delivered starting from this year. The existing 14 sets are equally split between SBB and Trenitalia (as for the ETR 470s, they have been divided 4-5 respectively).
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Old May 8th, 2014, 01:31 AM   #296
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Last I've heard is that SBB wants to get rid of its fleet of 470's entirely as those trains are not as reliable as SBB wants them to be. When Cisalpino still existed a large portion of delays on their services was due to unreliability of the 470 fleet, something which they hoped to resolve with the new 610 fleet. Unfortunately the 610 got some problems of its own and by the time the trainsets were put in service, Cisalpino was put in liquidation.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 11:00 AM   #297
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Quote:
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They are (they can run under 3, 15 and 25 kV), but at 250 km/h "only".
And they have ETCS, which is installed on LGV-EST, and will be (or already is) installed on the Luxemburg - Basel corridor. Luxemburg, Belgium and Switzerland are all rolling ETCS so it might be possible to get these sets running on that route without to much problem.

250 kph will not be a problem on the LGV-Est, as it's far from saturated at the moment.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 11:03 AM   #298
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Last I've heard is that SBB wants to get rid of its fleet of 470's entirely as those trains are not as reliable as SBB wants them to be. When Cisalpino still existed a large portion of delays on their services was due to unreliability of the 470 fleet, something which they hoped to resolve with the new 610 fleet. Unfortunately the 610 got some problems of its own and by the time the trainsets were put in service, Cisalpino was put in liquidation.
The SBB 470s are indeed to be put aside from this summer onwards. Although Trenitalia still wants to use them. Given the trouble they have keeping even one operational I wonder however.
The 610 sets are running fine, and appear reliable. Their problem however is that they ended up a bit to heavy (partly due to SBB insisting on having a full restaurant on board), and thus never got permission to run with active tilting on the Gotthard line. Once the base tunnel is operational tilting trains won't be needed on that route however.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 02:21 PM   #299
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And they have ETCS, which is installed on LGV-EST.
But probably not TVM430, which is required on LGV Nord...
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Old May 8th, 2014, 02:37 PM   #300
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But probably not TVM430, which is required on LGV Nord...
The ideal route would be: Basel - Strassbourg - LGV Est as far as Baudrecourt (the part that is currently under construction) then Metz - Luxembourg - Brussel. With the proposed upgrades in Belgium and Luxembourg this route is going to offer similar travel times as going around via Paris, but has the advantage of serving a larger market, and having far lower trainpath costs.
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