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Old October 20th, 2014, 08:57 AM   #301
M-NL
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Given their current track record why would either CNR or Hitachi be interested in buying AnsaldoBreda?
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Old October 20th, 2014, 10:15 AM   #302
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Well, AB has proven that they can build a train so they're not completely incompetent, they 'just' have issues with quality control. This is something which can be corrected, if done properly I am sure the people at the AB factories can build trains that are just as good as those built by Stadler.

For CNR and Hitachi, it can be interesting to buy AnsaldoBreda as this gives them several factories and a highly skilled workforce in Europe. By buying AB, CNR and Hitachi can quickly expand their presence in the European rolling stock market, much quicker than building a new factory as Hitachi is currently doing in Newton Aycliffe, UK. It's not easy to come by either of those, given the amount of space needed for a factory and the skills needed for the employees.
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Old October 20th, 2014, 11:45 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Well, AB has proven that they can build a train so they're not completely incompetent, they 'just' have issues with quality control. This is something which can be corrected, if done properly I am sure the people at the AB factories can build trains that are just as good as those built by Stadler.
The AB factories have even built trains for Stadler, as subcontractors. Contrary to the popular stereotypes Italians are as capable of quality production and engineering as anybody else. Italy was even a pioneer in high speed electric railways.
AB is a nice example of a good company that has suffered from negligent management. But that applies to most of Italy at the moment. If you want to blame someone, blame Berlusconi.

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For CNR and Hitachi, it can be interesting to buy AnsaldoBreda as this gives them several factories and a highly skilled workforce in Europe.
I think Hitachi (I hope it is indeed going to be Hitachi) buying AB would be good both for AB, and for the European rail industry in general. I for certain wouldn't mind seeing more trains like the Class 395 here. Would be a good candidate for the 200 kph IC sets NS wants to purchase in the near future.
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Old October 20th, 2014, 12:42 PM   #304
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I agree with you. Hitachi buying AnsaldoBreda would mean an enormous boost in production capacity for Hitachi Rail, and it gives them the knowledge needed to serve the European main land. Having a European mainland version of the AT200, the Class 395 or the IEP would be a great win for any European railway.
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Old October 20th, 2014, 01:24 PM   #305
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Contrary to the popular stereotypes Italians are as capable of quality production and engineering as anybody else.
For me Italian engineering was never in doubt, just their build quality. I also don't understand the big difference in quality between products made under foreign supervision and those that are not. But it remains a recurring theme, ranging from Ferrari and Lamborghini cars via NHIndustries NH90 helicopters to AnsaldoBreda trains. That can't be just a management issue.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 08:10 PM   #306
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Looks like Hitachi got the deal :

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/0...0LS0K720150224
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Old February 24th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #307
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Let's see if this will bring the V250 project back to life.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 09:24 PM   #308
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Let's see if this will bring the V250 project back to life.
No, this won't. This train is poison.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 09:27 PM   #309
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No, this won't. This train is poison.
The train has a good design. They need to address some manufacturing issues. It can be competitive on the 200-249 km/h range.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 10:33 PM   #310
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The train has a good design. They need to address some manufacturing issues. It can be competitive on the 200-249 km/h range.
No it hasn't. No they needn't. No it can't.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 03:30 AM   #311
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Hitachi already has trains tailored for that range: the Class 395 "Javelin" units and the Class 800/801 "IEP" trains. While they might have been built for the British loading gauge, it will be easier to adapt those trains to continental standards ('built on proven technology') than it will be to restore faith in the V250 ('lost a floor plate in medium snow').

The V250 is dead in the water. There is a chance that Trenitalia will buy them (to save a fellow Italian company, but now that Hitachi has sealed the deal I think we will not see that happening either.

The sale to Hitachi Rail was a bargain: all in all the Japanese paid only 36 million euros for all of AnsaldoBreda. The rest is for Finmeccanica's 40% stake in Ansaldo STS.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 01:55 PM   #312
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A class 395 built for UIC 505-1 (slightly bigger) or even better GC profile would have been perfect.

I second Silly_Walks on the V250:

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The train has a good design.
Technically the design may have had only minor issues, but aesthetically the thing is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
They need to address some manufacturing issues.
You forgot to add quotes to 'some' here. The AB employees need a basic course in 'how to assemble a series of trains in exactly the same way in accordance to the plans'. A shock will go through the factories once the Hitachi quality control staff goes on duty in Italy.

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It can be competitive on the 200-249 km/h range.
The leaked Mott MacDonald report concluded that the braking system wasn't really suitable for speeds over 160 km/h.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:35 PM   #313
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So at least a few heads are rolling, I am surprised the EU commission is not all over this because it just stinks bribery and rampant corruption. Now that AnsaldoBreda is persona non grata on the European train market I wonder if the Japanese are crazy enough to allow them to design and tender new train models?


From the RailwayGazette

State Secretary replaced after damning Fyra report

Quote:
NETHERLANDS: Sharon Dijksma was appointed as State Secretary at the Ministry of Infrastructure & Environment with effect from November 3. Reporting to Infrastructure Minister Melanie Schulz Verhagen-Maas Geesteranus, she replaces Wilma Mansveld, who resigned last week following the publication of a critical report into the Fyra high speed train debacle.

Set up by the second chamber of the Dutch parliament in December 2013, the five-person cross-party commission led by Madeleine van Toorenburg was asked to look into the collapse of both domestic and cross-border high speed services on HSL Zuid.

Entitled De reiziger in de kou (The traveller in the cold), the final report presented on October 28 was highly critical of all parties in the project, which is estimated to have lost the Dutch taxpayers more than €1bn. It accused them of pursuing their own interests rather than focusing on the provision of an effective train service. As a result, the new line is still not being used for its intended purpose.

Built at a cost of €11bn, HSL Zuid runs for 94 km from Hoofddorp near Schiphol airport to the Belgian border, joining LGV4 which runs for a further 36 km to Antwerpen Luchtbal. A fleet of 19 eight-car V250 trainsets was ordered from AnsaldoBreda to work both domestic and cross-border services, with 16 ordered by NS and three by SNCB.

Further reading in the link
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...ra-report.html


Another interesting read on the Danish IC4 fiasco. Here a thorough investigation into the responsible persons for green lighting the tender should have happened, I'm sure their lifestyles got a nice bump in the right direction after all the bribery that surely must have been involved.

http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/02/1...st-of-failure/

Last edited by gincan; January 31st, 2016 at 06:50 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2016, 11:22 PM   #314
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Sadly for your crappy anti-italian propaganda (and fornunately for Italy) AnsaldoBreda is a dead company and many former staff was fired by the Japanese.

Now the new company is called Hitachi Rail Italy, and has already new orders in it's backlog.

Now you can return to bash Italy/Italians as you like.

As for the bribery, i suggest you to watch at the situation in your little country before judging others.

Good bye.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 03:29 AM   #315
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Calling out a company for making crappy, sub-par products, is anti-Italian propaganda? Are you saying all of Italy is crappy and sub-par? Cause no one else was; just you, buddy.
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Old April 25th, 2016, 03:01 PM   #316
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Another interesting read on the Danish IC4 fiasco. Here a thorough investigation into the responsible persons for green lighting the tender should have happened, I'm sure their lifestyles got a nice bump in the right direction after all the bribery that surely must have been involved.
I doubt very much whether bribes were involved. As far as I can see this took place out in the open: a low-balled bid that should have been weeded out in the pre-qualification process. However, public officials in my native Denmark are notoriously scared of not accepting the lowest offer in public tenders. (Because they might receive a drubbing in parliamentary committees and the national media.) So I guess they just hid their doubts and claimed good faith because - as was repeatedly stated to the Danish media - they had "a very strong contract with the company".
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Old December 31st, 2017, 11:27 PM   #317
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So Ansaldo Breda has now been completely folded out within its new owner. The brand is on its way to eradication.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 02:50 PM   #318
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Good riddance.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 09:03 PM   #319
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So Ansaldo Breda has now been completely folded out within its new owner. The brand is on its way to eradication.
Great start of the new year!
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