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Old May 4th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intersezioni View Post
My compliments, you have opened a topic to attack just because a company is Italian! The usual racist stereotypes mixed with jealousy. This is the reality!
German or Dutch French companies are 101% perfect, never had any problems in building cars, trains or nuclear power plants!
I don´t think so: in Spain AnsaldoBreda isn´t very much appreciated either.
In Madrid in particular, they sold some rolling stock to their metro that was very conflictive.
In an occasion, the doors of an AnsaldoBreda metro train opened between stations, with the train running!
Luckily no one died nor got injured, since it was almost empty as it was very late (or very early, can´t remember now).

There´s more to it than an anti-Italian thing.
AnsaldoBreda´s trains are really not doing ok.

And no, German, Dutch or French trains aren´t perfect either, nor are the Spanish trains (we´re not bad at it though, you see).

We´re not attacking Italian trains for the sake of them being Italian, we´re critizising the AnsaldoBreda ones because they´re bad, and the Fyra case is frankly disappointing.

Fiat was much better than AnsaldoBreda.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
They have a solid record on signaling systems and the ETR1000 project is going just fine.
AnsaldoBreda doesn't do signalling systems, that's Ansaldo STS.

AnsaldoBreda only does assembly for the ETR1000, no real development.


Now stop defending your stock portfolio and start speaking the truth
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Old May 4th, 2013, 07:51 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intersezioni View Post
My compliments, you have opened a topic to attack just because a company is Italian! The usual racist stereotypes mixed with jealousy. This is the reality!
German or Dutch French companies are 101% perfect, never had any problems in building cars, trains or nuclear power plants!
This topic was opened to draw attention to the horrible track record of AnsaldoBreda. If you think technical and financial incompetence, a lack of knowledge and a lack of planning are typical Italian traits, than it seems you yourself believe in 'racial stereotypes' about Italians, not the people you accused (who are those, anyway?).
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Old May 5th, 2013, 12:31 AM   #64
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The goal of this topic isn't to discuss AnsaldoBreda because they're Italian, but because they're a shitty train builder that in my opinion should never be allowed to build a train again.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
AnsaldoBreda doesn't do signalling systems, that's Ansaldo STS.

1-
AnsaldoBreda only does assembly for the ETR1000, no real development.


Now stop defending your stock portfolio and start speaking the truth
1-
I have looked again at the recent picture of the first 4 carriages of the ETR1000 (Ansaldo Breda/Bombardier Zefiro V300+). The nose is not exactly like the Zefiro V300+ platform and the carriages do not look extactly like the Zefiros. Between the nose conic section and the mid section of carriage body there is something that doesn't add up.

Similarly to the Chinese Zefiro 380, the German ICE3, the Japenese Nozomi 500, even the standard Zefiro carriages are made with tubular shape extrusions and the side of carriages look somewhat roundish, somewhat like a tube cut in half.

But the lateral sides of the mid-sections of the AnsaldoBreda /Bombardier Zefiro 300 (aka ETR1000) carriages look vertical and also appear to be badly connected to the frontal conic section of the train, which is more roundish even on the sides.

Perhaps they have tried to make a hybrid -Zefiro platform using frontal conic section welded on the unsold Albatros V 250 carriages, produced by AnsaldoBreda for the Fyra trainsets.

Also the conic / aerodynamic sections of the ETR1000 look slightly larger than the mid -section of the (Fyra Albatros) carriages.

A Frakenstein HS Train made with the left-over/recycled Fyra carriages ?

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60rF6WsYjy4


All in all this train looks more like to an ETR500 with distributed power than to a Bombardier Zefiro
V300+.

Last edited by joseph1951; May 5th, 2013 at 06:01 AM.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 05:17 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
They have a solid record on signaling systems and the ETR1000 project is going just fine. They also manufacture subways cars and trams which are doing just fine (except for a minor issue with a Swedish contract).
A minor issue you say

The trams were delayed by several years, on top of that they had massive technical problems on arrival that forced Gothenburg to roll out their 30+ year old trams that were due for the scrap yard. After just a few years of service the trams now are rusting away, they even found mold under carpets and inside the chassi.

The entire first batch of 40 trams had to be take out of service and every single tram had to be repaired and cleaned of mold, in fact the design is so por that they have to replace entire chassi parts that can't be repaired.

And in Oslo they now have decided to scrap the trams they bought from AnsaldoBreda, they are so affected by rust it is not even worth the effort to repair them, and these are trams delivered 1999-2004, barely a decade old
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Last edited by gincan; May 5th, 2013 at 05:29 AM.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post

And in Oslo they now have decided to scrap the trams they bought from AnsaldoBreda, they are so affected by rust it is not even worth the effort to repair them, and these are trams delivered 1999-2004, barely a decade old
This is not accurate. All AnsaldoBreda trams in Oslo, except two, were recently withdrawn from service due to severe corrosion in a critical component. But they will get fixed and put back into service.

The AnsaldoBreda trams have had a lot of technical problems (a lot of it releated to corrosion) and are very expensive to maintain, so the transit company recommends they are retired in a few years, and new trams purchased. Whether this will actually happen is a political/funding issue.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
In Madrid in particular, they sold some rolling stock to their metro that was very conflictive.
In an occasion, the doors of an AnsaldoBreda metro train opened between stations, with the train running!
And that's only one, the mechanics of the Madrid metro still shiver when they listen AnsaldoBreda.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
And that's only one, the mechanics of the Madrid metro still shiver when they listen AnsaldoBreda.
What is wrong with metro trains in Madrid?

The Ansaldo cars in Los Angeles work just fine.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #70
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Here in Manchester, the Metrolink tram system are currently in the process of replacing unreliable and structurally corroded Ansaldo Breda vehicles with Bombardier trams. The replacement process should be complete this year, the youngest trams are 14 years old, the oldest have been in service since 1992.

Old, Ansaldo Breda T68/T68A


New, Bombardier M5000
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Old May 6th, 2013, 06:08 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Ansaldo cars in Los Angeles work just fine.
Ah, you found one example from 20 years ago.




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Old May 6th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What is wrong with metro trains in Madrid?
Constant technical issues.

Quote:
The Ansaldo cars in Los Angeles work just fine.
In Los Angeles? No, Los Angeles is on line 3. On line 3 Metro Madrid trains aren´t AnsaldoBreda, they´re CAF and work very well.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect;
Old, Ansaldo Breda T68/T68A
It was made by the good old Breda, not by AnsaldoBreda.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 01:29 AM   #74
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And still it sucked... it has only gotten worse with that company / those companies since.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 06:21 AM   #75
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Pictures of the Alsaldo Breda trainsets used in the newly opened Fortaleza metro. The 3-car trainsets can be joined to form 6-car trainsets. You can learn more in the BRAZIL URBAN TRANSPORT thread.










Is there any record of problems with this specific model?
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Old May 7th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Ansaldo cars in Los Angeles work just fine.
You picked a weird example, suburbanist. The old AnsaldoBreda rolling stock in LA may work well - I wouldn't know - but there has been quite some controversy about recent purchases from the company. Apparently (I gleaned this online) AnsaldoBreda was supposed to deliver cars for an extension of the Gold Line and went 3 years over time. The press in LA made quite a bit of noise, claiming that their local politicians should have known better considering all the trouble that the Europeans are having with this company. (To this they could have added Washington DC where the press alleges constant quality issues with the metro cars delivered by......... AnsaldoBreda.)
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Old May 7th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What is wrong with metro trains in Madrid?
Madrid metro made to orders in early 2000's, one to CAF and another to AnsaldoBreda. The AnsaldoBreda units were registered as 7000 and 9000 series:


Image from metromadrid.es


They were ordered in early 2000's and have been a nightmare to Madrid metro since they came. Some of the problems arrived when they were released, and after that they have been rolling for years without big problems, and some other might not be blamed to AnsaldoBreda, but their bad reputation due to that incidents is remarkable in Madrid.

My memory can't remember now wich were all the incidents that the AnsaldoBreda had so I will translate what spanish Wikipedia says about 7000 series:

Quote:
Spanish Wikipedia - Series 7000 y 9000

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_7000_y_9000

When the 7000 series were released, the CAF 8000 series, wich have similar features, were too. Madrid metro decided to continue adquiring 7000 units instead of ordering new 8000 series, except when later some S cars were adquired to the 8 line, to allow the initial MRM compositions to be converted in MRSM. There is some dispute about this decision, because the technicians and the trade union claimed to order the 8000 series [by CAF] and not the 7000 [by AnsaldoBreda]. The reason is that in origin the 7000 units have caused a lot of technical issues, were they highlight: engines that have fallen to the tracks while the trains were running, doors that got opened at high speed, fallen of one door during a travel, a lot of technical issues that have caused service interruptions, a derailment of a unit in the line 6 the may 12th 2009 when it arrive the Moncloa station with 5 minor injuries, other derailment in the Cuatro Vientos depot, wich unit is now out of service, another one in the Fuencarral depot, etc...
Those derailments aren't just minor issues, Moncloa derailment was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuromancer View Post

And Cuatro Vientos derailment was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuromancer View Post
It is clear that some of the incidents and accidents were the AnsadoBreda units were implicated may not be blamed to AnsaldoBreda, other systems are involved. But that is not an excuse for the disaster in general that it introduction was, specially when they are compared whith the CAF units of the same age.

Also some minors issues aren't listed here because they aren't significant but they could be seen every day. For example, people knows wich units are from AnsaldoBreda because they run without the Scharfenberg cover because those covers don't work very well.

In the sense of rail operation I think it is very interesting that some units of the 5000 series, wich were withdrawn from service once they finished their lifetime, had to be reintroduced into service because the circulation authorization of the AnsaldoBreda series was removed in line 6 after the Moncloa accident that is pictured above.

Some of those incidents were widely followed by media, f.e., the fallen of a engine was followed by a big political controversy.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #78
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Unfortunately it seems, that the AnsaldoBreda products have no good references worldwide.

Tramcars in Göteborg, Sweden - the type "Sirio" - their reliability and manufacturing quality are poor, the local transportation authority seeks for a possibility even to lease 15 trams Škoda 15T from Prague (Czech republic) for next years. Except other problems, a heavy corrosion is reported to appear at the Sirio trams.

Trams in Los Angeles: very serious delay of deliveries.

Metro in Washington D.C.:
Quote:
To put it bluntly, the company’s trains were significantly more likely to break down than those of other manufacturers in the fleet.
Boston:
Quote:
The Boston Globe reported in 2007 that Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority “officials have fumed over the years that it was their worst purchase ever,” refering to a 1995 contract with AnsaldoBreda.
(Source: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...angeles-alone/)
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Old May 8th, 2013, 12:19 AM   #79
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AnsaldoBreda won the contract to build new cars for Miami metro.

They lost Honolulu's contract though.
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Old May 8th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
AnsaldoBreda won the contract to build new cars for Miami metro.
AB promised that they would build a local assembly plant, which would mean that about 100 new permanent jobs and more temporary jobs would be created. They've promised this to other American cities as well.
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