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Old May 31st, 2013, 02:50 PM   #101
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Old May 31st, 2013, 04:41 PM   #102
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VRT (Flemish public broadcast) has received shocking photos of damage which happened the AnsaldoBreda-built V250 trainsets after a trip.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 05:16 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
VRT (Flemish public broadcast) has received shocking photos of damage which happened the AnsaldoBreda-built V250 trainsets after a trip.
This is what I mean when I say EU should blacklist AnsaldoBreda, this is not even poor construction, but outright fraud.

The politicians that handled the public tender should be publicly flogged and given lengthy jail terms for fraudulent handling of public funds.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 05:51 PM   #104
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There is no blacklist for train manufacturers (only for airline and ship operators AFAIK).
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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:11 PM   #105
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Marc Descheemaecker (CEO SNCB) listed some of the issues with the V250 trains:
- Metal strip which came loose
- Problems with doors and stairs
- One train suffered from a battery fire while in the yard
- The braking system was designed for 160 km/h and is inadequate for use at speeds of 250 km/h.
- Lots of problems with influx of water, causing rust
- Corrosion on nearly-new axles
- Essential cables (electrical, hydraulical) mounted on the bottom side of the train without any protection - ballast caused severe damage
- The rasters on the bottom of the train were much too thin and open, this caused all kinds of problems
- Snow blocked the horn of the train, rendering it useless
- NedTrain (rolling stock maintenance) uses a list of "penalty points" to determine if a train is fit for duty. If a train set gatherings more than 10 points, it isn't allowed to enter service. 5 points are given for design things (such as a broken light bulb), 10 for stability issues, 20 for safety issues. When thoroughly investigating half (!) a V250, 1157 points were awarded. On another train, this went up to over 2000.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:20 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never give up View Post
I'm sorry, I should have written Ernesto Breda, not Ernesto Ansaldo.
That' ok. Still, Breda ws a pivate company which strived to make good locos and, later, good electric trains. Some of the elctric fast trains build dy Breda, such as ETR200 were in service for over 50 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS_Class_ETR_200

Unfortunately, todays AnsalboBreda bear no resemblance to the historical Breda company
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:29 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Marc Descheemaecker (CEO SNCB) listed some of the issues with the V250 trains:
- Metal strip which came loose
- Problems with doors and stairs
- One train suffered from a battery fire while in the yard
- The braking system was designed for 160 km/h and is inadequate for use at speeds of 250 km/h.
- Lots of problems with influx of water, causing rust
- Corrosion on nearly-new axles
- Essential cables (electrical, hydraulical) mounted on the bottom side of the train without any protection - ballast caused severe damage
- The rasters on the bottom of the train were much too thin and open, this caused all kinds of problems
- Snow blocked the horn of the train, rendering it useless
- NedTrain (rolling stock maintenance) uses a list of "penalty points" to determine if a train is fit for duty. If a train set gatherings more than 10 points, it isn't allowed to enter service. 5 points are given for design things (such as a broken light bulb), 10 for stability issues, 20 for safety issues. When thoroughly investigating half (!) a V250, 1157 points were awarded. On another train, this went up to over 2000.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:02 PM   #108
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Any railway company with respect to it's customers would blacklist AnsaldoBreda for future orders. The Norwegian Railways who have already done so a couple of years ago should be a good example for other countries/operators.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:41 PM   #109
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Visual problems of the AnsaldoBreda V250-trains

http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/.../NMBS-fyra.pdf















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Old May 31st, 2013, 10:37 PM   #110
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There is no blacklist for train manufacturers (only for airline and ship operators AFAIK).
AnsaldoBreda is a good place to start, then.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 11:06 PM   #111
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Quote:
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AnsaldoBreda is a good place to start, then.
Would the Italian government let such list be established first place? It has interests on the success of Finmeccanica.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 11:12 PM   #112
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Would the Italian government let such list be established first place? It has interests on the success of Finmeccanica.
If they had any interest in the succes of this company, they would have made them make decent products.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 11:19 PM   #113
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Terrible, just terrible. Very good decision of the Belgian Railways and the Dutch should do the same.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 11:23 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Marc Descheemaecker (CEO SNCB) listed some of the issues with the V250 trains:
- Metal strip which came loose
- Problems with doors and stairs
- One train suffered from a battery fire while in the yard
- The braking system was designed for 160 km/h and is inadequate for use at speeds of 250 km/h.
- Lots of problems with influx of water, causing rust
- Corrosion on nearly-new axles
- Essential cables (electrical, hydraulical) mounted on the bottom side of the train without any protection - ballast caused severe damage
- The rasters on the bottom of the train were much too thin and open, this caused all kinds of problems
- Snow blocked the horn of the train, rendering it useless
- NedTrain (rolling stock maintenance) uses a list of "penalty points" to determine if a train is fit for duty. If a train set gatherings more than 10 points, it isn't allowed to enter service. 5 points are given for design things (such as a broken light bulb), 10 for stability issues, 20 for safety issues. When thoroughly investigating half (!) a V250, 1157 points were awarded. On another train, this went up to over 2000.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 01:08 PM   #115
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I've always thought AB couldn't be as bad as we all make it sound, but once you dive in a bit more it isn't even bad, it's worse.
One picture speaks a thousand words and in this case there are several pictures...

Another interesting point from the presentation not mentioned here: The 9 delivered trains may look the same on the outside but 'under the bonnet' they're not. AB has let their mechanics assemble each train as they pleased and not according to the plans. What baffles me is that the people from NS did not notice that and have accepted delivery of a faulty product (Especially since the IC4 debacle was already well unfolding when they took delivery. That should have raised the alarm and triggered extensive delivery checks)
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Old June 1st, 2013, 05:05 PM   #116
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The IC4 debacle was already well underway when NS received the first V250. Two years ago, Atkins has performed a second opinion on the IC4 - just as Mott MacDonald did with the V250. The Atkins report is available here. On page 29, you can find a table showing statistics about component breakdowns on board the IC4. Lots of faults and casualties were caused by long term storage of components, which led to a loss of quality.

Back in 2009, Railway Gazette reported that DSB had reached a settlement with AnsaldoBreda regarding the IC4 project. Railway Gazette also wrote:
Quote:
DSB reports that the biggest problem with the IC4s is the train management software, which will need 'substantial upgrading'. It also notes a number of production faults, blamed on each set being 'hand-built' ahead of series production.
So, back in 2009, it was known that 14 of the 83 IC4's delivered varied greatly. This should've been a warning to the V250 project team.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 09:53 PM   #117
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Dutch Railways also willing to cancel the V250-order.

The end of AnsaldoBreda?
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 10:07 PM   #118
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Will AnsaldoBreda survive this? Good question... according to SNCB's report, AnsaldoBreda's financial situation is horrible. With NS and SNCB backing out of the V250 order and starting up legal procedures, this might very well worsen for them.

I am curious to see if the deals with Bombardier/Trenitalia and the Honolulu metro have provided the company with enough cashflow to be able to survive.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 11:38 PM   #119
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I just want AnsaldoBreda to have enough cashflow to pay back its customers. After that they can fall in Vesuvius for all I care.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 11:42 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busfotodotnl View Post
Dutch Railways also willing to cancel the V250-order.

The end of AnsaldoBreda?


http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...v250-deal.html
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