Western Europe and Eastern Europe

[Los Earth]

Western Europe and Eastern Europe
Which do you like more?
I saw that these two of Europe were way different in culture, food, life, music etc..
So I decided it would be good to discuss how these two regions are different and how they are the same.
Please no trolling and NO I am not referring eastern Europe as the communist states, they were. All I am saying are that they are two different regions that live very different..DO NOT get the wrong idea. okay??

Lets start with the major cities
Moscow: pop 11,514,330



















London:8,278,251












Which city is more appealing? Moscow or London?




other honorable mentions.
Paris


Kiev


Madrid


Rome

Warsaw



These are the biggest cities in order and population

1)Moscow around 10,500,000
2)London 7,600,000
3)St. Petersburg 4,600,000
4)Berlin somewhere 3,400,000
5)Madrid 3,200,000
6)Rome 2,900,000
7)Kiev 2,800,000
8)Paris around 2,200,000
As you can see the biggest cities are somewhat evenly
distributed.
Western Europe is considered good because
of the tourism, sightseeing, food,famous sites etc... However
the otherside people like it because boost of economy,
unexplored areas, friendlier people and other similarities.
famous sites located in WE are Eiffel tower, Big Ben, Colosseum,
Louvre.
EE contains Kremlin, Hermitage and other less known areas,
does that explain about less explored areas?
I like WE because it is exciting famous, and warmth,EE contains
less tourists, more snowy,(I like that too),and one group of
people that have same similarity which is Slavic. EE is building three
major high rise skylines and WE is containing around five cities with
skylines. London is a major trading center in the world and Paris
is the most visited.As you all know none of the eastern side even hold close to any of these each achievements but they are trying to improve their business.
Odessa is a warm city In Ukraine and Sochi is also warm.
Spain and Italy hold the warm spots over there. The biggest country is Russia, but are more poorer than the westerners. But EE is catching up quickly to these states like in this situation where bankrupsy lurks everywhere, in western Europe.

Eastern Europe: Biggest country is Russia, the biggest population is Russia with 110,000,000 people. Major cities include Moscow,St Petersburg, Kiev Kharkov, Warsaw,Bucharest, Katowice.

Western Europe: Biggest Country France 547,030 km2, Largest population is Germany with 81 million people. London, Paris, Madrid, Rome, Berlin, Hamburg, are major cities.

So what region is more interesting?
Well that is about all, I can list other information but I think this is it.

[Sagaris]

No offense, but this thread is idiotic. Drawing a line to segregate Europe is only possible now because of the effects of the iron curtain. In the future, as it was in the past, it will not be possible and your idea of "Western Europe and Eastern Europe" will become redundant.

[Iluminat]

If you are confused here it means that Eastern europe is where slavs live while western is where the other ethnicity live.(like Poland will go into eastern europe and so will Czechoslovakia and Hungary.)

Hungary is not slavic... Anyway cities like Prague look more or less the same as "western" ones so I'm not sure this kind of vs. comparison makes much sense.

[norbert91]

and there is no czechoslovakia anymore.....

[Marbur66]

Originally Posted by Los Earth

Western Europe and Eastern Europe
Which do you like more??
If you are confused here it means that Eastern europe is where slavs live while western is where the other ethnicity live.(like Poland will go into eastern europe and so will Czechoslovakia and Hungary.)

WTF? Czechoslovakia? And Hungary is Slavic? Good to see that you know your stuff. Let the assaults begin!

[Yellow Fever]

Ok, guys, take it easy on him, he is going to make some changes to his first post.

[Los Earth]

Originally Posted by Marbur66

WTF? Czechoslovakia? And Hungary is Slavic? Good to see that you know your stuff. Let the assaults begin!

Sigh...I meant the territory it was located in , but thats okay i changed it so no more mistakes.

[D.J.]

The idea of Europe is that it cannot be defined. That is why You also can't divide it on two equal parts. Europe has no definition. It's something very open. You make Europe what You want it to be. And your definition of Europe tells more not about Europe itself but about You, and how You perceive it.

[Los Earth]

Originally Posted by D.J.

The idea of Europe is that it cannot be defined. That is why You also can't divide it on two equal parts. Europe has no definition. It's something very open. You make Europe what You want it to be. And your definition of Europe tells more not about Europe itself but about You, and how You perceive it.

Of course there is no political map that describes West Europe as West Europe or east as east.
All I'm saying when you cross the "border" you will see the land dotted with domed churches and babushkas... or other stuff. Many people would agree that these two lands are quite different because the west has mainly been cultured my modernism, and the east has a different story.

[D.J.]

Originally Posted by Los Earth

Of course there is no political map that describes West Europe as West Europe or east as east.
All I'm saying when you cross the "border" you will see the land dotted with domed churches and babushkas... or other stuff. Many people would agree that these two lands are quite different because the west has mainly been cultured my modernism, and the east has a different story.

....There is no political but there are no any other maps (cultural, religious, ethnic) that could divide Europe on two. Have You seen "babushkas" in Sweden or Finland? No "babushkas" in Germany? Do you know anything about retirement system in post-communist countries? In Germany old people are relatively rich (and travel to Spain to rest, those poorer rest in Polish spas), in "east" countries they can't afford medicine, not mentioning traveling anywhere. Trust me, they would like to go somewhere also. It's more a financial fact then cultural.

- Communism was also modernism. It was one of post-enlightenment ideologies, just like neoliberalism. Generally only times during communism were the same for ALL "eastern countries" (excluding Scandinavia and Austria).

- There are no more churches here than there are in France. And they are domed because of the bigger snow fall. Anyway, I think You look at "eastern" Europe though some stereotypes of yours. It's hard to draw a line between regions in Europe and find that on one side it's completely different then on the other. The cultural landscape is changing, but it's evolution in space. So when you cross the border You will not see domed churches at once. You will see changing landscape and evolution of domes. And they don't begin at the border of any country.

You cannot cut Europe on "east" and "west" because it's ideological, it comes from communist period and before communism nobody defined Europe in such way. No thought schematic can embrace Europe. Europe is an idea without historic or geographic substance. In America, USA is constitution, it's simple. In Europe there is no such thing that could describe whole Europe. We may say: Europe is Christianity. But then what should we do with Albania? Or Turkey (and Constantinople)? Or Grenada? We may say: Europe is Enlightenment. But then what we should do with Vatican and all religions? We may say: Europe is a continent...but it's defiantly not a continent. We may say: Europe is catholic or post-catholic. But what about Ukraine or Bulgaria? If You say east: do U mean Sweden or Finland? And if not (because it may be north Europe) then why Estonia is not north? It has more to do with Nordic countries then those "eastern". And is Great Britian north or west then (it's also protestant)? See?

[Los Earth]

Originally Posted by D.J.

....There is no political but there are no any other maps (cultural, religious, ethnic) that could divide Europe on two. Have You seen "babushkas" in Sweden or Finland? No "babushkas" in Germany? Do you know anything about retirement system in post-communist countries? In Germany old people are relatively rich (and travel to Spain to rest, those poorer rest in Polish spas), in "east" countries they can't afford medicine, not mentioning traveling anywhere. Trust me, they would like to go somewhere also. It's more a financial fact then cultural.

- Communism was also modernism. It was one of post-enlightenment ideologies, just like neoliberalism. Generally only times during communism were the same for ALL "eastern countries" (excluding Scandinavia and Austria).

- There are no more churches here than there are in France. And they are domed because of the bigger snow fall. Anyway, I think You look at "eastern" Europe though some stereotypes of yours. It's hard to draw a line between regions in Europe and find that on one side it's completely different then on the other. The cultural landscape is changing, but it's evolution in space. So when you cross the border You will not see domed churches at once. You will see changing landscape and evolution of domes. And they don't begin at the border of any country.

You cannot cut Europe on "east" and "west" because it's ideological, it comes from communist period and before communism nobody defined Europe in such way. No thought schematic can embrace Europe. Europe is an idea without historic or geographic substance. In America, USA is constitution, it's simple. In Europe there is no such thing that could describe whole Europe. We may say: Europe is Christianity. But then what should we do with Albania? Or Turkey (and Constantinople)? Or Grenada? We may say: Europe is Enlightenment. But then what we should do with Vatican and all religions? We may say: Europe is a continent...but it's defiantly not a continent. We may say: Europe is catholic or post-catholic. But what about Ukraine or Bulgaria? If You say east: do U mean Sweden or Finland? And if not (because it may be north Europe) then why Estonia is not north? It has more to do with Nordic countries then those "eastern". And is Great Britian north or west then (it's also protestant)? See?

From what I see your telling me is that there are domed churches all across Europe. But tell me do you see these churches in France Germany or your other claimed countries? No.
I didn't say that right when you take a step into like say, Poland you will see all these stuff come alive. I said this region is specifically marked with colorful onion churches.
If you looked at my first post you will see that I said I am NOT defining Eastern Europe as Communist states. Why does EVERYBODY think that when someone says eastern Europe it automatically means that this region was communist??? This isn't 1990's.
What? Britain is north? If you look at a compass you will see it is marked in the western part of Europe. Simple.
Please, let's not continue this debate. I said I did not want any of these arguments
Okay?

[Iluminat]

Well things like colorful onion-domes are characteristic for Orthodox countries but not for Catholic Poland and other CEE and Baltic countries we don't have a lot of onion domes, babushkas or whatever. You see this is very sensitive subject since most of the countries you lump into EE cathegory don't really see themselves as part of this region and for some people it might be even offensive hint- all "EE" countries in the EU consider themselves rather as part of the West. It seems that even if you deny it you use this term in it's Cold War sense because the main reason that it is used to describe many of this countries is the Iron Curtain.
It also doesn't make much sense to compare architecture of this "Eastern" EU cities with other cities in the union as if they were products of different civilizations since the architecture is mostly the same meaning it's Western.
Most people from Warsaw, Prague or Bratislava would find this idea eccentric if not plain ridiculous because they see cities like Paris as examples to follow especially in maintaince, public spaces etc. but not as alien or exotic.

[Linguine]

Interesting thread....

[Federicoft]

Originally Posted by Sagaris

No offense, but this thread is idiotic. Drawing a line to segregate Europe is only possible now because of the effects of the iron curtain. In the future, as it was in the past, it will not be possible and your idea of "Western Europe and Eastern Europe" will become redundant.

The division of the world into two opposing blocs was perhaps the most important political fact of the 20th century, and has huge lasting effects even on today's world. Just compare any socio-economic factor between countries East of the curtain with countries West of it.

Sure, things are quickly changing, many EE countries are catching up, but how on earth you can deny there still is a clear divide?

[Iluminat]

I think he only said that you can still draw a line today but it will be impossible in the future. Anyway which countries CEE, EE, Baltics, Balkans (mostly former Yogoslavia) or perhaps Caucasus? Because there are also clear socio-economic differences between this regions. Countries like the Czech Republik are already comperable with Portugal for example but I'm not sure GDP (the most obvious difference) should really be the most important factor here or perhaps we should move Moldavia to Africa

[D.J.]

Originally Posted by Los Earth

From what I see your telling me is that there are domed churches all across Europe.

I'm only telling that churches are all around Europe. And France probably has the biggest amount of them because it was in the past the most populous country in Europe.

Originally Posted by Los Earth

But tell me do you see these churches in France Germany or your other claimed countries?

It happens. But I can see some of them in south-eastern Poland (usually wooden construction), Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. I wouldn't say it's typical for "eastern Europe". I would say they are often seen on eastern orthodox or greek-catholic churches. But then again it's not true again because in Romania, Bulgaria or Greece they have a bit different architecture of their temples.
So I would risk a claim that such cupolas are rather Russian stuff -> Moscow. Because even in Kiev (St. Sophia, St. Michael) they look bit different. Although Ukrainians should say more about it.

Originally Posted by Los Earth

I didn't say that right when you take a step into like say, Poland you will see all these stuff come alive. I said this region is specifically marked with colorful onion churches.

Ok. So you think that Eastern Europe begins and ends with such cupolas? Interesting idea. Maybe. But i don't know how we can draw a line on a map to represent this idea (and still call it Europe). I believe it may start at the Polish/Ukrainian borderlands and end in Vladivostok or on Chinese border.

Originally Posted by Los Earth

If you looked at my first post you will see that I said I am NOT defining Eastern Europe as Communist states. Why does EVERYBODY think that when someone says eastern Europe it automatically means that this region was communist??? This isn't 1990's.

Relax. Maybe because U don't describe it more precisely. And this is what i try to do. I'm not angry or something. I find it rather amusing so don't take it too seriously because I'm not doing it. I find it funny that Europe is land without objective definition. Peace.

[Sagaris]

So which has the dome here? Your idea of classifying a divide within europe on cultural reasoning is flawed and has no basis. For example in western Poland, our cuisine is far more like Germany's than any other country. In terms of music, Europe is very much united on that front since the baroque. In terms of culure, I don't see where you are coming from.


*images from wikipedia*

Originally Posted by Federicoft

Sure, things are quickly changing, many EE countries are catching up, but how on earth you can deny there still is a clear divide?

I don't deny it. Never did. Right now it is undeniable that there is an economic and a (limited) social devide between both sides of the iron curtain. But as generations from the cold war era die out and former communist nations redevelop their economies, this classification of east and west will dissipate. Already Slovenia is ahead of certain "west" countries in certain socio-economic classifications and a few others (Czech, Slovakia) are not far off.

[Mesch]

where's the first picture from?

[D.J.]

So You know the city from the second photo and don't from the first?

[Los Earth]

Originally Posted by D.J.

I'm only telling that churches are all around Europe. And France probably has the biggest amount of them because it was in the past the most populous country in Europe.



It happens. But I can see some of them in south-eastern Poland (usually wooden construction), Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. I wouldn't say it's typical for "eastern Europe". I would say they are often seen on eastern orthodox or greek-catholic churches. But then again it's not true again because in Romania, Bulgaria or Greece they have a bit different architecture of their temples.
So I would risk a claim that such cupolas are rather Russian stuff -> Moscow. Because even in Kiev (St. Sophia, St. Michael) they look bit different. Although Ukrainians should say more about it.



Ok. So you think that Eastern Europe begins and ends with such cupolas? Interesting idea. Maybe. But i don't know how we can draw a line on a map to represent this idea (and still call it Europe). I believe it may start at the Polish/Ukrainian borderlands and end in Vladivostok or on Chinese border.



Relax. Maybe because U don't describe it more precisely. And this is what i try to do. I'm not angry or something. I find it rather amusing so don't take it too seriously because I'm not doing it. I find it funny that Europe is land without objective definition. Peace.

I made this thread so that we could discuss not argue,
All you want to do is TAlk TAlk and talk about how there is no difference.
If you hate this thread so much, make your own one.