Australia's most feral railways lines

[L2]

Originally Posted by NoshowwithoutPunch

The Alamein line wouldn't, nor can I see too many ferals alighting at Wahroonga

Alamein line has the odd one from the housing commission at the end of the line.

Don't think the Olympic Park Sprint would get too many ferals on a weekday unless they're visiting the Commonwealth Bank or Novotel.

North Shore line has the wannabes (bored private school kids) but I've never seen any actual ferals on it.

However the same train that's come from Wahroonga does carry 'real' ferals 90mins later later into it's journey when it's approaching Mount Druitt. Hard to miss them out there, just hop off a train there and you'll see.

[brizguy]

Originally Posted by Gazza2

^Her geography and demography was certainly a bit off wasn't it.
According to wiki, only 9% of people from Nicaragua are African.


Anyway, the point of this post was to link to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mig7PSsV0rk
The best bit is when the fat bitch falls over.

hahahhahahahahahahah, good on him for not killing her, she deserved it

[Westyguy]

Plenty of ferals between Blacktown and Penrith, Mt Druitt being the worse.

My car was off the road for a few weeks and had to catch the train to St Marys where I worked at the time.

[southpawgrammar]

Christ those videos are shocking.

It's basically street, or in this case train, theatre. A production called " Society doesn't give a fuck - why should I?" running up and down all ultra suburban corridors.

How did we get here and why will it get worse?

1. - We (wider society) marginalise the most vulnerable people in our society by pushing them to the fringes of the cities where there are more or less no services. They are pushed out due to gentrification or pushed into homogenous housing commission suburbs. Gawler Line (SA) is a great example of this.


2 - We then reward/encourage them for poor life choices through short sighted welfare policies = round up all the undesirables and chuck them into houses in the middle of nowhere. When they come to complain about no jobs in their area, give them money.

3- We obsess about crime while failing to acknowledge that a lot of crime is committed by those who have accumulated disadvantage ( lack of a stable nuturing home life, few positive social rolemodels and being the subject of social contempt on a daily basis etc... = not a great start to life).

Part of this obsession with crime is the quick fix answers that people cling to. The answer to crime is not " throw them in jail". Unless you're locking up people for life, jail doesn't work. We know this because the rate of reoffence is through the roof.

If we focussed on early intervention, community service and programs that actually empowered these people, we'd see less crime.

The attacks on the trains and busses have very little to do with trains and busses - they are just stages for the rest of us to watch our part of our society falling to bits.

[NoshowwithoutPunch]

Nup. They are just bad people. we've forgotten evil is real. id be happy for them to be jailed indefiniteky, or at least till they realise what they've done is wrong. Hell, in every generation of refugees, war survivors, traumatised people in far worse condition than ferals, we see the ones who study hard, go to uni, get good jobs.

i've posted before my idea for a mega penal city, 100 000 people or the actual population of habitual law jbreakers.

[southpawgrammar]

..and here's exactly what I am talking about.

A 12 year old child throwing a rock at a train is not evil or a bad person. It's a behaviour and it can be changed.

Let's also remember that not everyone who's gone through a traumatic experience bounces back and goes to uni etc. Some do and they should be congratulated!

This mega penal city idea of yours - out of sight, out of mind what happened and you're seeing it come to fruition on the trains.

[NoshowwithoutPunch]

Originally Posted by southpawgrammar

..and here's exactly what I am talking about.

A 12 year old child throwing a rock at a train is not evil or a bad person. It's a behaviour and it can be changed.

Let's also remember that not everyone who's gone through a traumatic experience bounces back and goes to uni etc. Some do and they should be congratulated!

This mega penal city idea of yours - out of sight, out of mind what happened and you're seeing it come to fruition on the trains.

This sort of attitude is why western civilisation is going into decline. People in future will discount our actions the way we regard the western Roman Empire in the 400s. Society must always set boundaries and also recognise that evil is there.

as for setting up a new penal settlement, wasn't that what this place was supposed to be?

i see it as a positive. cradle to grave sevices and activities for people who can't fit in. Full range of mental health, drug treatment, post release employment, housing etc services on site. this business of paroling people back onto the mean streets is cruel.

[southpawgrammar]

Western civilisation is going into decline because we have created a society completely dependant on fossil fuels and that encourages people to buy shit they don't need.

If you're so hell bent on eradicting evil and bad people from our society, I hope this list of yours includes white collar criminals who launder money, avoid taxes, lie, steal and cheat the rest of us.

[NoshowwithoutPunch]

Originally Posted by southpawgrammar

Western civilisation is going into decline because we have created a society completely dependant on fossil fuels and that encourages people to buy shit they don't need.

If you're so hell bent on eradicting evil and bad people from our society, I hope this list of yours includes white collar criminals who launder money, avoid taxes, lie, steal and cheat the rest of us.

Yep plenty of room for them too. The more the merrier.

[Yancancook]

Kurt Russell in.. ESCAPE FROM BLACKTOWN


Caught a sydney train the other day when I was down for work. While sitting on platform 22 at Central at about 10:30pm I came to a conclusion that, indeed, the entire cityrail network is feral. Came this close to getting bashed by lebs... Fuck this woeful city and it's bullshit trains.

the fares were better than expected though...

[junkie13]

Northshore line isn't too bad but platform 22 is the bankstown line, on the weekend you are look for trouble taking that line.

[SydneyCity]

The Western Line between Seven Hills and Penrith is the worst. Also from what i've heard the Intercity lines aren't too good after dark either.

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by ypph

This was on ACA last night (23/2/2012): http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8424659

[Suburbanist]

Originally Posted by southpawgrammar

..and here's exactly what I am talking about.

A 12 year old child throwing a rock at a train is not evil or a bad person. It's a behaviour and it can be changed.

He/she is acting bad and if not properly punished, will kill someone in a beach resort someday because he/she hit on a girl/guy and got laughed at.

I don't like these discussions of good/evil people, except in truly extreme cases like serial killers. I rather stick with the good/bad behavior. Bad behavior must not be tolerated when it affects other people's body or property or rights.

Let's also remember that not everyone who's gone through a traumatic experience bounces back and goes to uni etc. Some do and they should be congratulated!

3- We obsess about crime while failing to acknowledge that a lot of crime is committed by those who have accumulated disadvantage ( lack of a stable nuturing home life, few positive social rolemodels and being the subject of social contempt on a daily basis etc... = not a great start to life).

Life is not fair. Some people get better start than others. It is not a toddler's fault his father is a bogan and his mother a crackhead. But that doesn't make it right to leash out on others, on public property etc.

Surely society should provide some means to a meaningful life. That is called basic public education, available, to my knowledge, to every school-age kid living in Australia.

"Your childhood sucked? Get over and make the best of it. It is your life after all."

Originally Posted by southpawgrammar

How did we get here and why will it get worse?

1. - We (wider society) marginalise the most vulnerable people in our society by pushing them to the fringes of the cities where there are more or less no services. They are pushed out due to gentrification or pushed into homogenous housing commission suburbs. Gawler Line (SA) is a great example of this.

Sorry, this is pure b.s. OR overemphasizing and overstating the power of architecture to determine human behavior. Crime follow problematic individuals to their new locations, not the other way around.

It is not like kids in Australia or any other developed country don't have public schools, health care, running water and electricity. They might not have a cool hangout spot, but so what?

Part of this obsession with crime is the quick fix answers that people cling to. The answer to crime is not " throw them in jail". Unless you're locking up people for life, jail doesn't work. We know this because the rate of reoffence is through the roof.

Problem I see is that Australia is too lenient with good behavior bonds, suspended sentences even for repeated offences and so on. For people who don't give a damn about their reputation, criminal offence record or their own future, this kind of punishment might not work.

I personally think relatively short strings of solitary confinement in total isolation (like 3-5 weeks) might be more effective than years-long sentences where inmates will just learn more crime tricks. Imagine locking up a 15-year old troublesome teen who had re-offended multiple times in solitary confinement for like 40 days. No contact with family, no contact with other inmates. But that is another discussion.

If we focussed on early intervention, community service and programs that actually empowered these people, we'd see less crime.

Actually one of the main problems is that these teen thugs and training-to-be-a-bogan individuals feel too much empowered, above the law, without any sense of personal accountability. They need to be contained and restrained in their view of trains (and anything else) as wild places the can disrespect others, be aggressive, trash, vandalize and be violent.

[Tyson]

Two things:

1. The notion that jail is not about punishing someone who has committed a crime but helping them. Nowdays people aren't sent to prison as punishment for their crimes, they are sent there to be "rehabilitated" so like magic they can "re-enter society" like a new person and whatever previous issues/dispositions they had have been fixed. Assuming such a theory is even possible a state run institution is the last place where it will happen.

2. Part cause of the above is that people are no longer responsible for their own actions. The prevalent view these days is that society owes you something and if life doesn't turn out perfectly for you then it must be someone else's fault. Being from a disadvantaged background isn't ideal but it doesn't excuse your actions. If people won't accept responsibility for themselves why on earth would they aspire to be law-abiding productive members of society.

[NoshowwithoutPunch]

Originally Posted by Tyson

Two things:

1. The notion that jail is not about punishing someone who has committed a crime but helping them. Nowdays people aren't sent to prison as punishment for their crimes, they are sent there to be "rehabilitated" so like magic they can "re-enter society" like a new person and whatever previous issues/dispositions they had have been fixed. Assuming such a theory is even possible a state run institution is the last place where it will happen.

2. Part cause of the above is that people are no longer responsible for their own actions. The prevalent view these days is that society owes you something and if life doesn't turn out perfectly for you then it must be someone else's fault. Being from a disadvantaged background isn't ideal but it doesn't excuse your actions. If people won't accept responsibility for themselves why on earth would they aspire to be law-abiding productive members of society.

People whinged (rightly) about Thatcher and there is no society but understand this:

Society as a concept doesn't work unless people take responsibility for themselves.

As an information processing task, it is too big. Just as the Soviets discovered central planning of the economy doesn't work, partly because of the information task, organising society without personal responsibility doesn't work.

It isn't just a moral issue but a practical one.

Biologically and socially we are programmed to have adults take responsibility for children and we have set the boundary at an arbitrary 18 years while in reality some responsbilities are better delineated at young ages and some at much older ages. Again, this is to simplify the information task.

Society can take some of the capacity for managing other people's responsibilities, in this case, adults for their own children, but not broader than that. It is just too hard.

If people will not take responsibility for their actions, then jail or community-based alternatives that are still restrictive, are the only options.

Because we cannot afford, nor are we institutionally geared, to have too many people the responsibility of others.

Think about it in your own life. Your parents brought you up. Your school taught you what you need. Now you are responsible: to vote, to fight in wars, to pay tax, to work to support yourself, and to respect property and the rights of others. You have children and you will do all that for them as well. But how many more people can you take responsibility for.

You burn yourself out. Society is burdened by higher costs. At some point it all breaks.

If people will not (and I use the word will in its mediaeval sense ie want) take responsibility for their actions, others must reluctantly do it. Then they will want the simplest, information-load-reducing options that work. For serious and repeat offenders, this will be jail. For a very long time.

Killing people through the death penalty is immoral. Letting them off with warnings doesn't work, it just becomes an occupational niusance for the chronically criminal. Jail.

[Gazza2]

Sums it up quite well, the notion of people not taking personal responsibility.

Has anyone ever listened to the sorts of conversations ferals etc have on trains. It's always something to the effect of

"Such and such is a bitch and she said such and such, so i told her to fuck off and im not putting up with it anymore, so she went off and pissed in the ear of such and such, and then the next thing I know she came around, having a go at me....."

Totally sums up the mindset.

There seems to be this real tendency for them to sit around feeling sorry for themselves and complaining about other people and arguing/fighting, rather than just sucking it up, ignoring them, worrying about themselves, and doing what needs to be done.
They hold a perpetual sense that they are hard done by and are owed something.

[Fabian]

Even city stations like Town Hall (Sydney) have their scumbags.

[Fabian]

L2, you would have enjoyed an eight minute stop at Kogarah Station (Sydney's South) yesterday with the police called in to deal with some troublesome teens that looked like they returning home from a surf at Cronulla.

[SydneyCity]

Not a railway line, but I caught a Rivercat ferry to Parramatta yesterday and some ferals got on at Rydalmere. There were two women with about half a dozen kids, when they got on the kids started running around the ferry and making a racket while the two women were talking loudly, the 'f' and the 'c' word featured prominently.

First time i've ever seen actual ferals on a ferry.