daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas > Proposed



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 23rd, 2011, 01:32 AM   #1
MegaCity416
LakeshoreWest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto, Port Credit, Burlington
Posts: 30
Likes (Received): 7

MARKHAM - New Arena (19,500)

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=381071

Quote:
Sources tell TSN that Graeme Roustan, the chairman of the hockey equipment company, Bauer, who also moonlights as an arena builder, and Toronto-area land developer Rudy Bratty, ranked in 2010 by Canadian Business Magazine as the 62nd richest man in Canada with a net worth of $940 million, are working together in a massive real estate venture that includes a 19,500-seat facility that they hope will be built regardless of the NHL interest, or lack thereof, in southern Ontario.

The project is located a slapshot away from where Tampa Bay Lightning superstar Steven Stamkos grew up in Unionville, or the western part of the town of Markham that is situated on the northeast border of Metro Toronto.

The arena would be built on a tract of land owned by Bratty, just west of the existing GO Transit train station in Unionville, and just north of Highway 407, but would be part of a much larger sports and entertainment complex, not unlike the Staples Center and L.A. Live entertainment block in Los Angeles. And all of that would be just one element of what's known as the Bratty-inspired Markham Centre, a $3 billion , 900-plus acre high-density residential, commercial and retail development that is part of the official plan of the town.
MegaCity416 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old November 24th, 2011, 09:28 AM   #2
krnboy1009
Registered User
 
krnboy1009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,355
Likes (Received): 56

Waste of money, NHL team will never come to Markham or Hamilton for that matter. Leafs make sure of that.
krnboy1009 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #3
htpwn
Registered User
 
htpwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 201
Likes (Received): 2


Location in comparison to Downtown Toronto.


I think this is the site, but am only working off the limited information McKenzie reported. It could be further south of here, adjacent to the railway tracks.


Early render from UT.

Last edited by htpwn; November 24th, 2011 at 08:51 PM.
htpwn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2011, 06:02 PM   #4
Jmrowe
JMROWE
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 17
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
Waste of money, NHL team will never come to Markham or Hamilton for that matter. Leafs make sure of that.
I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .
Jmrowe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2011, 03:26 AM   #5
flashman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In the belly of the beast
Posts: 441
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmrowe View Post
I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .
As Victor Newman(The Y & The R) might say: 'You little man! You know nothing of hockey!"

Hockey works as an industry. The NHL is acutely aware of the teams that provide it with its young talent, and a key component of that development system is the Ontario Hockey League.

A team in Hamilton, Kitchener or anywhere else in the western hinterlands of the GTA would have a seriously detrimental effect on junior hockey clubs in Mississauga, Brampton, Guelph, Kitchener, St. Catharines and possibly even London. That's a quarter of the OHL that would feel serious economic impact from a pro team. Some might go out of business.

Hockey doesn't work that way.

A second pro team in the Toronto area would be far less harmful to the junior clubs, even one in the Markham area where no junior club exists, but where a clear appetite exists for more hockey.

When the Mississauga Ice Dogs were to be moved a few years back by interim owner Eugene Melnyk so he could move St. Mike's Majors into the Mississauga Hershey Centre arena, his initial destination was Newmarket. The Barrie Colts owner, Howie Campbell, blocked that.

Since then, there's been numerous rumours that Campbell was selling his Barrie ownership in order to be able to acquire a relocated OHL franchise in the area. The word was that a new 6,000-ish arena would be built and that the likely site was Aurora, with the Stronach family involved in the land deal.

This new deal completely trumps the smaller project and might even prove to be a home for a junior team until a NHL team arrives and, even then, they might work out as co-tenants. Bauer would certainly be able to work with that.

Rudy Bratty's involvement is the crucial aspect to this deal. He's been a huge player in building the many sub-divisions springing up across the northern 905 region. This arena deal would likely only serve as a spearhead for much more extensive commercial and residential development on land he and his associates already own or have a stake in.

It would also provide impetus to the provincial government to improve commuter rail service to Toronto's northeast in the same way that is now planned to the northwest corridor up to Barrie as well as justify making the current toll road of Highway 407 a fully free-access public highway in order to broaden its use.

There's a lot of reasons why this arena deal has legs. Not one of them has anything to do with some perceived whack notion that Toronto collectively 'wants' a second NHL team to big itself up in regards to other cities.

What The Hammer will get in the near future is its own OHL franchise. The Montreal Canadiens want to do what many NHL clubs are now doing and move its American League farm team closer to the big club. A lot of speculation about where that team would be housed(Laval, Verdun, Trois Riv., etc.).

That would leave Copps Coliseum(The Sheepdogs SO rocked that place on Saturday night) open for the relocation of an OHL club. Might even see a nearby rival move in as well if plans take hold to build a new arena in nearby Burlington or Oakville. That would make for a lot more entertaining and involving hockey scene than watching 20 NHL could-be's going through the motions most nights.

Alright, bud, you're up to date now and you're welcome.

Last edited by flashman; November 29th, 2011 at 03:39 AM.
flashman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2011, 06:55 AM   #6
krnboy1009
Registered User
 
krnboy1009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,355
Likes (Received): 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmrowe View Post
I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .
Are you the same JMROwe on HFboard?

Honestly I dont think anyone who owns the Leafs will ever allow any team in Southern Ontario.
krnboy1009 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:51 AM   #7
Lord David
Registered User
 
Lord David's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,651
Likes (Received): 74

If it does get built, it will be a part of a Toronto 2024 Olympics bid, even if it's not ideally downtown.
Lord David no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2011, 09:09 PM   #8
Bossman1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 59
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
Honestly I dont think anyone who owns the Leafs will ever allow any team in Southern Ontario.
While I understand where that is coming from I don't see what gives MLSE the entitlement to this market. Every city in the world where a certain sport is a hotbed multiple sports teams exist. It just make sense the hottest market for hockey on the planet with a regional population in excess of 7 million people only has 1 pro sports team. It doesn't take a genius to figure out collusion of some sort is going on and a monopoly against the principles of a competitive market. How is not the NHL and MLSE taken to court already.
Bossman1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2011, 09:13 PM   #9
krnboy1009
Registered User
 
krnboy1009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,355
Likes (Received): 56

Its their legal rights as a the sole owner of the territory which makes sense. They were their first so to speak.
krnboy1009 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2011, 11:18 PM   #10
Jmrowe
JMROWE
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 17
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashman View Post
As Victor Newman(The Y & The R) might say: 'You little man! You know nothing of hockey!"

Hockey works as an industry. The NHL is acutely aware of the teams that provide it with its young talent, and a key component of that development system is the Ontario Hockey League.

A team in Hamilton, Kitchener or anywhere else in the western hinterlands of the GTA would have a seriously detrimental effect on junior hockey clubs in Mississauga, Brampton, Guelph, Kitchener, St. Catharines and possibly even London. That's a quarter of the OHL that would feel serious economic impact from a pro team. Some might go out of business.

Hockey doesn't work that way.

A second pro team in the Toronto area would be far less harmful to the junior clubs, even one in the Markham area where no junior club exists, but where a clear appetite exists for more hockey.

When the Mississauga Ice Dogs were to be moved a few years back by interim owner Eugene Melnyk so he could move St. Mike's Majors into the Mississauga Hershey Centre arena, his initial destination was Newmarket. The Barrie Colts owner, Howie Campbell, blocked that.

Since then, there's been numerous rumours that Campbell was selling his Barrie ownership in order to be able to acquire a relocated OHL franchise in the area. The word was that a new 6,000-ish arena would be built and that the likely site was Aurora, with the Stronach family involved in the land deal.

This new deal completely trumps the smaller project and might even prove to be a home for a junior team until a NHL team arrives and, even then, they might work out as co-tenants. Bauer would certainly be able to work with that.

Rudy Bratty's involvement is the crucial aspect to this deal. He's been a huge player in building the many sub-divisions springing up across the northern 905 region. This arena deal would likely only serve as a spearhead for much more extensive commercial and residential development on land he and his associates already own or have a stake in.

It would also provide impetus to the provincial government to improve commuter rail service to Toronto's northeast in the same way that is now planned to the northwest corridor up to Barrie as well as justify making the current toll road of Highway 407 a fully free-access public highway in order to broaden its use.

There's a lot of reasons why this arena deal has legs. Not one of them has anything to do with some perceived whack notion that Toronto collectively 'wants' a second NHL team to big itself up in regards to other cities.

What The Hammer will get in the near future is its own OHL franchise. The Montreal Canadiens want to do what many NHL clubs are now doing and move its American League farm team closer to the big club. A lot of speculation about where that team would be housed(Laval, Verdun, Trois Riv., etc.).

That would leave Copps Coliseum(The Sheepdogs SO rocked that place on Saturday night) open for the relocation of an OHL club. Might even see a nearby rival move in as well if plans take hold to build a new arena in nearby Burlington or Oakville. That would make for a lot more entertaining and involving hockey scene than watching 20 NHL could-be's going through the motions most nights.

Alright, bud, you're up to date now and you're welcome.
Thats slap in the face & kick to the groin at the same time Hamilton is city of over 700,000 people & has access to over 6 million people in the surounding areas in SW. Ontario & is not I & I repeate not an Minor\Junior league city to even suguest such a thing is insulting none the least but I expect that from sombody that is probley from Toronto or the states . Hamilton is a major league city in Canada not a minor\junior league city & we are far more deserving NHL. franchise than Toronto is 2nd or should I say 3rd yes 3rd I included the marlies & to say the OHL would be efected by an NHL. team in SW. Ontario is nonsense .
Jmrowe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2011, 07:36 PM   #11
Bossman1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 59
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
Its their legal rights as a the sole owner of the territory which makes sense. They were their first so to speak.
Cry me a river on that argument. Were not the Rangers there 1st before the Islanders and the Devils, or how about the Kings before the Ducks, the Knicks before the Nets, the Lakers before the Clippers and on and on.
Its not unprecedented for a city two have more than 1 team in a league.
Bossman1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2011, 08:46 PM   #12
krnboy1009
Registered User
 
krnboy1009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,355
Likes (Received): 56

First of all, NHL doesnt have to let Markham get an NHL team or anywhere else in Toronto metro area plus Hamilton. Its not anyones right to get a NHL team.

Second of all, Leafs have big say in NHL. They are one of 30 owners (MLSE I mean) who run the league.
krnboy1009 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2011, 10:17 PM   #13
Bossman1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 59
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
First of all, NHL doesnt have to let Markham get an NHL team or anywhere else in Toronto metro area plus Hamilton. Its not anyones right to get a NHL team.

Second of all, Leafs have big say in NHL. They are one of 30 owners (MLSE I mean) who run the league.
I'm not saying the new team has a right. But the NHL has a right to service the market properly, and a single team doesn't do that here. Look at the Rangers, Lakers, or whoever. Despite those teams/owners say a second and even a 3rd team moved into the market. There is enough wealth to spread and doesn't nor shouldn't be hoarded by 1!!!!!!!!!
Bossman1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2011, 02:53 AM   #14
krnboy1009
Registered User
 
krnboy1009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,355
Likes (Received): 56

They are being served, Toronto Maple Leafs, enough said.
krnboy1009 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2011, 03:04 AM   #15
htpwn
Registered User
 
htpwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 201
Likes (Received): 2

delete.
htpwn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2011, 08:40 AM   #16
Jim856796
The Q&A Guy
 
Jim856796's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Citizen of the World
Posts: 7,566
Likes (Received): 187

Why should a new arena be built in Markham?
__________________
I honestly think all development projects must be dashing, sustainable, and futureproof.

You support the good projects... and oppose the bad.
Jim856796 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2011, 10:52 PM   #17
Jmrowe
JMROWE
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 17
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
Why should a new arena be built in Markham?
I agree money is going to be the to be a major issue there is just not enough of it to build another world class arena for 300 million in Toronto (GTA.) area & won't get off the table just like the idea to build in Vaughan\Downview . If anybody wants to build a new arena in southern Ontario they should build it in Hamilton why because we also have land in & around the Hamilton area that is ripe for develoment such as the old west harbour site that was going to be used for the new stadium why not build an arena there or they can just do the cheap thing & renovate Copps Coliseum & get another 40 years out of that arena . Not to mention Hamilton is the best place in which to invest in in Ontario & a world class arena can easly be built there for 300 million $ .
Jmrowe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #18
MegaCity416
LakeshoreWest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto, Port Credit, Burlington
Posts: 30
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmrowe View Post
I agree the Leafs (MLSE.) won't let it happen but I do think an NHL. team will eventully come to southern ontario but not Hamilton or the GTA. the team would play in southwestern Ontario like London , Kitchener or Aldershot & would be called Ontario ?????????? & play in Hamilton whille a new arena is being bulit in one of thoses cities . Some people in the GTA. don't get it that the greatest unserved NHL. market in North America is southwestern Ontario ( Hamilton , London , Kitchener , Brantford ect. ) not the GTA. (Toronto) Toronto only wants 2nd team is to inflate there ego & to try to be on the same level as an Los Angeles or New York in which they will never be .
First of all, Aldershot is an area in Burlington, which is part of the GTA. It literally could not be more sandwiched between Hamilton and the rest of the GTA. So you kind of contradicted yourself there, in the first two sentences of your post.

Also, most people who want a second NHL team in the Toronto area cite reasons that have nothing to do with ego. They see the biggest hockey market in the world, with the most valuable money-making franchise in the league having only one team. Many other large markets throughout sports have 2 or more pro teams of the same sport in large markets where that sport is popular, and it works from an economic standpoint.

From what I've seen, people who want a second team in Toronto are usually thinking about it from a business standpoint. I haven't seen anyone that came across as wanting another team here to make Toronto more like LA or NY.
MegaCity416 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #19
flashman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In the belly of the beast
Posts: 441
Likes (Received): 43

Get over this Hamilton nonsense. It's not going to happen. Ever.

It's not just the Leafs involved in this. The Buffalo Sabres are a well-established, well-run franchise held in high regard by fellow owners. They're not about to stick a new hockey club 45 minutes away that would put the Sabres in jeopardy. Just like they aren't about to disrupt junior franchises that help to provide fresh talent to the league.

A second club in southern Ontario will only go to the GTA, be it a second franchise playing out of the Air Canada Centre, or in the suburbs.

But if you were paying attention to recent reports as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment was being sold, you might have heard concrete king Larry Tanenbaum, the 25% owner and league(NHL) governor of MLSE being asked about the possibility of a second Toronto NHL team. His response:

'Not in my lifetime'. I believe him.
flashman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2011, 09:28 PM   #20
Jmrowe
JMROWE
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 17
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashman View Post
Get over this Hamilton nonsense. It's not going to happen. Ever.

It's not just the Leafs involved in this. The Buffalo Sabres are a well-established, well-run franchise held in high regard by fellow owners. They're not about to stick a new hockey club 45 minutes away that would put the Sabres in jeopardy. Just like they aren't about to disrupt junior franchises that help to provide fresh talent to the league.

A second club in southern Ontario will only go to the GTA, be it a second franchise playing out of the Air Canada Centre, or in the suburbs.

But if you were paying attention to recent reports as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment was being sold, you might have heard concrete king Larry Tanenbaum, the 25% owner and league(NHL) governor of MLSE being asked about the possibility of a second Toronto NHL team. His response:

'Not in my lifetime'. I believe him.
There will never be 2nd team in Toronto or the GTA. because one MLSE. will never let it happen two the total cost of bring a 2nd team to toronto would be around the billion dollars maybe more & that is just to much money for a hockey team . My opinion is that there will be a 2nd NHL. team in southern ontario but not in the GTA. most likely ethier Hamilton , Kitchener , London would get the NHL. team because Hamilton & the southwestern ontario market is the largest unserved NHL. market in north america & if there was 2nd team put in Toronto seriously doubt anyone the Hamilton & southwestern ontario would support it . The thing is a Team in the Hamilton southwestern area would benefit the entire area & just not one city whille a 2nd team in Toronto would benefit Toronto & no one else . Toronto is the most hated city in Canada because of there I am better than you attitude towards every one else what I am trying to say is Toronto gets a 2nd NHL. team & 3rd overall over Hamilton & southwestern ontario Toronto would be more hated & dose Toronto need to be more hated in this economy my answer is no .
Jmrowe no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu