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Old November 26th, 2011, 04:20 PM   #1
Skybean
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TTC Fare Hikes

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Prepare for fare hike, TTC chair says
Published On Fri Nov 25 2011

Michael Woods Staff Reporter


Public transit riders should brace themselves for another fare increase, TTC chair Karen Stintz said Friday night.

“We’ve tried to do everything we can to avoid it,” she said. “But we still have a gap, and unless something changes we’ll need to close the gap through a fare increase.”

In a letter to TTC customers, Stintz suggested a fee increase is on the way if the province doesn’t cover more of the $1.5 billion it costs to run the TTC.

“The current support from the province, while truly welcome, is not enough,” the letter said.

The TTC received $91 million from the province for operations in the 2010-11 fiscal year. That amounts to six per cent of costs
, which Stintz said is “inadequate.”

TTC commissioners will decide next month whether to raise 2012 fares by 10 cents. Its next meeting is on Dec. 14.

With the province giving “no indication” it will provide more money and the city looking for savings, the commission will have to make some “difficult choices” despite trying to avoid increasing fares through staff layoffs and service cuts, Stintz said.

“We’ve exhausted all of our options.”

Stintz’s comments follow the news that Mayor Rob Ford’s budget cuts will take a toll on 62 transit routes across the city in 2012. The TTC board voted for the service cuts to help meet Ford’s directive that all city departments and agencies slash spending by 10 per cent.

The TTC will save $15 million per year by reversing service enhancements made as part of its ridership growth strategy, back to 2004 levels.

TTC fares went up 25 cents in Jan. 2010.

........
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/...hair-says?bn=1
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Old November 26th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #2
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http://www.priceoftravel.com/595/pub...ldwide-cities/

Toronto is already the highest of North American cities. Europe in general is much higher but seriously, their transit is what Toronto can only dream of.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #3
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Perfect. Let's raise fares when we cut service and ridership is going up. Sounds reasonable. Mayor McCheese is making me puke.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 05:37 PM   #4
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Oh, another 10c fare hike ... want to bet that at the last minute they find the money that they need?

For me the funniest thing is that regular operating cost hikes are partly necessary because TTC is having trouble finding enough operators to operate their vehicles so they have to pay overtime to a lot existing operators.

And now with TTC declared an essential service, operator salaries are going to increase, meaning we are going to have to pay higher operator costs and less money going into the actual service.

Cheers, m
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Old November 27th, 2011, 06:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban View Post
Oh, another 10c fare hike ... want to bet that at the last minute they find the money that they need?

For me the funniest thing is that regular operating cost hikes are partly necessary because TTC is having trouble finding enough operators to operate their vehicles so they have to pay overtime to a lot existing operators.

And now with TTC declared an essential service, operator salaries are going to increase, meaning we are going to have to pay higher operator costs and less money going into the actual service.

Cheers, m

i'm wondering how much it would cost to automate the subways.. how much would that save us on operators?
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Old November 27th, 2011, 09:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
i'm wondering how much it would cost to automate the subways.. how much would that save us on operators?
depends on whether we can get rid of the operators or not.

Scarborough RT has automatic train operation, but the Amalgamated Transit Union Local 113 made the case that passengers would be uncomfortable without an operator. So the operators are paid to open & close the doors, keep an eye out, etc.

Yonge line is moving to Automatic Train Operation as well - I expect that you will see the same push for operators as a safety measure ... and since the Scarborough RT is going to be converted to LRT and linked to the Eglinton Crosstown Line, I expect that we are going to keep operators on our trains for a long, long time.

When I first visited Singapore and saw that their NorthEast Line (run by SBS Transit) was fully automated, I spoke to the station master and said "I'm surprised your trains do not have operators. (The older EW and NS line trains run by SMRT corp. have operators). He said 'why do we need operators?'

Cheers, m
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Old November 28th, 2011, 03:40 AM   #7
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i agree. people don't feel awkward on the Pearson monorail. (its automated isn't it?) i can see why streetcars need operaters, as they mingle with traffic. but subways run in a completely isolated system. i find no need for operators on them at all.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 04:14 PM   #8
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Why are people so obsessed with automatic subways? It makes little sense to fully automate an old line, unless the line is at capacity, or other options(siphoning riders to commuter rail, other lines, etc) have been exhausted. To automate the Yonge Line requires platform doors, rebuilding of the terminal stations, new trains. I do not see full automatic operation as being cost effective for the Yonge Line.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 04:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
Why are people so obsessed with automatic subways? It makes little sense to fully automate an old line, unless the line is at capacity, or other options(siphoning riders to commuter rail, other lines, etc) have been exhausted. To automate the Yonge Line requires platform doors, rebuilding of the terminal stations, new trains. I do not see full automatic operation as being cost effective for the Yonge Line.
The new trains have ATC to allow them to run with shorter headways in Peak service. Once all T1's are replaced on the Yonge-University line with new TR's the TTC would only need to put in the platform doors for full ATC, which would have the additional benefit of reducing the number of "smoke at track level" incidences.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 06:06 PM   #10
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This is a kind of joke, right?

How can Toronto score so high in livability ratings with such a crappy and expensive transit system?

The subway lines in the suburbs go nowhere, transit in the centre is slower than a bicycle ride, the majority of their employees are rude (at least those with which I interacted) and the TTC is already one of the most expensive transit systems in the world. Oh, did I forget to mention that we have no proper connection to our two city airports?

At the same time we see articles which tell us how Toronto is becoming a world class city, how it is growing upwards and how it attracts "creative people", many of which do not want to drive cars. Well, tell you what - this means now is the time to make some serious improvements in our transit system!

Rising ridership hikes without any serious infrastructure investments should not be allowed by law. And if they are short on budget, there are other ways to make up for the difference. They just need to look at their expediture, not at their income.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemachine View Post
The new trains have ATC to allow them to run with shorter headways in Peak service. Once all T1's are replaced on the Yonge-University line with new TR's the TTC would only need to put in the platform doors for full ATC, which would have the additional benefit of reducing the number of "smoke at track level" incidences.
unfortunately the latest budget cuts mean that the TTC will not be buying any extra TR trains to fill up capacity on the Yonge-University-Spadina line and send all the T1s to Bloor Danforth.

So the Yonge Line will still have some T1 trains for a while longer.

Cheers, m
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemachine View Post
The new trains have ATC to allow them to run with shorter headways in Peak service. Once all T1's are replaced on the Yonge-University line with new TR's the TTC would only need to put in the platform doors for full ATC, which would have the additional benefit of reducing the number of "smoke at track level" incidences.
It's not that easy. The terminal station(Finch, I assume VCC and Steeles West will be built to handle more trains per hour) still have to be re-built to be able to cycle trains quicker. That is going to cost money. The TTC estimated the cost of adding PSD's to be $1 Billion.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban View Post
unfortunately the latest budget cuts mean that the TTC will not be buying any extra TR trains to fill up capacity on the Yonge-University-Spadina line and send all the T1s to Bloor Danforth.

So the Yonge Line will still have some T1 trains for a while longer.

Cheers, m
As I understand the YUS line will be all TR's, its just they won't add the extra trains (which can run closer with full ATC signalling), it will be a train for train replacement with fewer spares, and the TR's sets are supposed to have a 10% capacity boost over the T1's.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 04:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STAR-ter View Post
This is a kind of joke, right?

How can Toronto score so high in livability ratings with such a crappy and expensive transit system?

The subway lines in the suburbs go nowhere, transit in the centre is slower than a bicycle ride, the majority of their employees are rude (at least those with which I interacted) and the TTC is already one of the most expensive transit systems in the world. Oh, did I forget to mention that we have no proper connection to our two city airports?

At the same time we see articles which tell us how Toronto is becoming a world class city, how it is growing upwards and how it attracts "creative people", many of which do not want to drive cars. Well, tell you what - this means now is the time to make some serious improvements in our transit system!

Rising ridership hikes without any serious infrastructure investments should not be allowed by law. And if they are short on budget, there are other ways to make up for the difference. They just need to look at their expediture, not at their income.
good points. but, i have some too. one, many of the "creative" people (i suppose i'm included) live downtown, and walk/longboard/bike everywhere. i work from home (mostly) and while i do use the ttc ten times a month or so, when i do, i RARELY pay. ask a ttc driver to give you a ride, and they usually will, for free! if that isn't liveable, i don't know what is. if not, just grab a transfer from a garbage can (if you're at a subway station). only pay as a last resort.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 03:53 AM   #15
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No wonder they need so many fare hikes to keep afloat. Hopefully with the Presto card implementation, transfer fraud can be dramatically reduced!
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 02:47 PM   #16
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If you believe the majority of TTC riders are selfish asses like Ying-Yang, I have funds locked away in Nigeria that I need help accessing!

There is nothing wrong with modest fare hikes every year or so. The TTC have been doing this while sustaining and increasing service every year. Considering how little money the TTC receieves comparable to other systems, the TTC is doing pretty good.
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 06:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemachine View Post
As I understand the YUS line will be all TR's, its just they won't add the extra trains (which can run closer with full ATC signalling), it will be a train for train replacement with fewer spares, and the TR's sets are supposed to have a 10% capacity boost over the T1's.
well, that's better news but it would still be nice to have the extra trains.

I suppose someone will manage to point out that if we are not going to have the extra trains to run closer, why invest in the ATC now?

Cheers, m
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Old December 4th, 2011, 07:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
If you believe the majority of TTC riders are selfish asses like Ying-Yang, I have funds locked away in Nigeria that I need help accessing!

There is nothing wrong with modest fare hikes every year or so. The TTC have been doing this while sustaining and increasing service every year. Considering how little money the TTC receieves comparable to other systems, the TTC is doing pretty good.
brother, everyone is a selfish ass sometimes, including the TTC. i don't pay often because they don't provide me with optimal service, only a last-resort service. paying, like the level of their service, is a last resort.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 04:42 PM   #19
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I even see old ladies opening a latched gate to enter the subway without paying. There's only one ticket collector per station and they are caged inside their room too busy collecting tickets to bother.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 03:31 AM   #20
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TTC approves 10-cent fare hike
Published 23 minutes ago

Paul Moloney Staff Reporter


A 10-cent fare hike effective Jan. 1 and restoration of full bus service on some busy routes like Finch, Dufferin and Don Mills have been approved by the Toronto Transit Commission.

The commission on Wednesday okayed a compromise plan from the TTC chair, Councillor Karen Stintz, that uses about $5 million in expected 2012 diesel fuel savings to continue bus service.

“The TTC management will go back and give us a breakdown on which routes will be maintained,” Stintz said. “And they would likely be the busiest routes like Finch, like Don Mills, like Dufferin. But the exact details are still being worked out.”

TTC chief general manager Gary Webster said the money would restore half the rush-hour bus service that had been on the chopping block. Transit advocates vowed to keep pushing council — which meets in mid-January to pass the city’s budget — to come up with $14 million to keep current bus service operating.

“It’s up to councillors now to find the remaining money to avoid service cuts in the TTC,” said Jamie Kilpatrick, of the Toronto Environmental Alliance.

The 10-cent fare hike, the first since January, 2010, when fares went up 25 cents, will increase the adult token to $2.60. The cash fare remains at $3.

For future TTC budgets, the commissioners granted their approval in principle to levy regular 10-cent fare increases in 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Transit advocate Steve Munro said regular fare increases are one of three strategies to place the TTC on a stronger financial footing.

“Fares should go up regularly by reasonable amounts; the city must be prepared to increase TTC funding from (property) tax revenues; and if we get more money from the province or the feds…it should contribute to actual improvement of service,” Munro said.

Also Wednesday, the commission decided to find $2 million to continue Wheel-Trans service for about 800 ambulatory dialysis patients who need to make 5,000 trips a week for treatment. The dialysis trips would continue for the first six months of 2012, providing time to lobby the province for funding.

Stintz said that of the $5 million in expected diesel fuel savings, $1.5 million would go to retain 2011 service standards through January, and $3.3 million would go into retaining bus service on busy routes.

A complicating factor is that the TTC needs to buy 54 buses to maintain the higher level of bus service in 2013, Webster said.

“We don’t know where that money is coming from at this time,” he said. “We’ve been asked to go away and work with the city to find what alternative financing approaches we might be able to use to buy the buses.”

About 80 people had signed up to share their outrage over the proposed service cuts. ACORN, a social justice advocacy group, even delivered a seasonal sack of coal to the TTC board — one lump for each of 282 buses that will no longer be available to riders in 2012.

Most speakers made it clear they understood their words wouldn’t move the TTC off its insistence of a 10-cent fare hike or prevent it from reducing service on routes across the city to pre-2004 levels.

Many were furious not just about service cuts and fare hikes, but with the cutting climate pervading the city hall budget process.

What they told the commissioners

“Scarborough is being excluded from future transit expansion. The Sheppard subway extension and the failure to build any line to the Scarborough campus of U of T won't do anything for residents there.

“Scarborough residents should have the benefit of transit just like residents in any other part of the city.”

Beverly Thompson, Scarborough Transit Action community group

“Approving a fare increase while cutting service is like lowering the allowance and giving more chores to a good kid.

"I think it is disrespectful to raise fares while cutting service. I wanted to voice my opinion because I think my views represent many taxpayers who want a functioning, affordable city."

Gilleen Witkowski, daily TTC rider

“Cuts to the TTC do not make sense when there are more people riding the TTC. It’s unsafe to the TTC drivers and the general public at large to ride an overcrowded bus, streetcar or train during the rush hour. Why would the TTC commission suggest something knowing it was not safe? I say ‘yes’ to the increase in TTC fares even though it’s hard to swallow. I say ‘no’ to the decrease in service. It’s the city’s job to figure out this problem, not ours.”

Paulette Hamilton, Danforth area resident who expects cuts to her Coxwell bus route

“I don’t have a car. They’re very expensive and I don’t want one. I use the services you’re thinking of cutting. It’s also an issue of climate change. We can step up and provide a transit system that is reliable and funded fairly.”

Ryerson University employee Jessica Bell

“You guys really suck at your job. Sometimes I make it to work on time, sometimes I don’t, but most of the time I don’t know when I’m going to make it.
It’s safe. Your employees, that’s another matter, and I know you’re working on it. Preparing for the future — that’s where you guys are failing taxpayers of Toronto. What we really need is creative, clever, visionary thinking. We even need some leadership. Raising a fare is old, tired, lazy thinking. Cutting services is stupid, stupid thinking. We’ve done that. Study after study shows that raising the fare cuts transit ridership.”

Jennifer Foulds, rider

“The TTC is becoming a mode of transport people increasingly want to take. Riders get less service for more money. We have a minority at Queen’s Park right now so we do have an opportunity (to restore some provincial operating funding). We’re the only G8 country without a national transportation strategy. We can’t cry poor when we’re projected to lose about $65 million on Transit City. You owe to everybody in our city to have a full and honest discussion about road tolls and congestion charges or a personal vehicle tax.”
http://www.thestar.com/news/transpor...fare-hike?bn=1
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