Ontario Place needs wild imagination

[hkskyline]

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

Toronto doesn't enjoy what fundamentals? I realize you rank it low on the list of international cities, but it is the business, cultural and tourism centre of Canada. Increase the tourism draw, and you will increase the tourists; especially Americans within driving distance, and the bulk of the population of the USA and Canada is within a 10-12 hour drive. One quarter of the population of Canada lives in the Golden Horseshoe, alone.
You do understand that this proposal is not just a hotel with a casino in it, right? Again, I think people are confusing this with the MGM in Detroit; look at the example of Melbourne instead.

Btw, the term "5-Star" is so overused and bandied about nowadays that pretty much every hotel that opens anoints itself with the 5 Star label. If they are not satisfied with the maximum number of stars they will just bestow upon themselves 7 stars out of a possible 5. Can't wait for the first 10 star hotel opens, which will be 500% new and improved over "Perfect". I think as long as you charge $10,000 a night, you probably can give yourself 10 Stars for having succeeding in ripping off visitors in a truly breathtaking fashion.

Also, the National Post announced yesterday that Ceaser's also wants in on the action here and will be putting in a proposal as well.

The fundamentals are Singapore is a major international financial centre with a huge MICE industry and large amounts of corporate travellers. They've had a chronic shortage of upper-tier hotel rooms and the new casino complex offers plenty of rooms within close range of the CBD. That's why even though Singaporeans are deterred from entering the casino with a huge head tax, these hotel rooms will still likely fill up.

The other big casino story is Macau, where numerous developments have popped up over the years. Macau has taken over Las Vegas as the world's largest gambling centre already. There are plenty of rich mainland Chinese supporting the VIP tables to keep the cranes moving.

Toronto's casino complex is slated to have upper-tier hotels, which means they're not aiming for the Days Inn or motel travellers, but rather richer tourists and corporates willing to dish out well over CAD150 a night (the true 5-star hotels these days easily charge over CAD200). But will Americans want to drive up all the way to Toronto to see a casino when they can easily access one at home? The ones living in the Northeast can easily access a great casino and resport destination in Atlantic City, which is dying by the way, or fly across to Las Vegas for cheap. What about the corporates - are there really that many corporate travellers coming to Toronto that even the new 5-star hotels cannot absorb? A more practical question is are these rich corporate travellers willing to live quite a distance from the CBD at Ontario Place? Clearly, the fundamentals are a bit lacking. If they built this thing right at harbourfront within walking distance to Bay Street, then perhaps this huge supply glut of upper-tier hotel rooms would make sense.

The casino and resort concept is a bit questionable in this economic climate, and the US is not likely going to come out of their mess soon. Clearly, the market position is not aimed at the average traveller. The bells and whistles should not deter from the fact that the real cash cow would be the gambling tables, and plenty of locals will be filling those up to keep the bells and whistles running.

Great to hear a few big entertainment giants have an interest in investing, but after the dust settles, this whole thing can flop quite badly, and ultimately it'll survive because it is essentially a casino.

[doug.to]

Originally Posted by waldenbg

I would have to disagree completely. In 10 years nobody will be saying "UGH!! I wish we hadn't let them build that 6 billion dollar entertainment complex."



I would have to disagree. Look at how these casinos benefit the surroundings.

It's not just a casino!!!!!! It's an entire complex, with only 5% gaming.


As a matter of fact, if the proposal didn't include a 5% gaming area, it would be like this:

• Luxury Hotels
• Upscale Shopping
• World Class restaurants
• High end spa
• Large convention space
• Theatre/performance facility
• Fitness, pools, tennis, golf, bowling
• Fountains/outdoor attraction
• Cirque Du Soleil/show

If it sounded like that, I bet no one would be unhappy. So what if there is a casino attached?! This will be a huge investment into our city. Everyone seriously needs to stop comparing it to MGM, Niagara, and even Vegas.

Vegas is not supposed to be a walkable city..

So yes, these do help at street level. However, I guarantee you that if this is built out in some suburb, the street and surroundings will be terrible. Downtown Toronto is very walkable, so the complex will mend to that. And this will be built in the GTA no matter what.

I can't think of anything else that would attract so many people and add so much for our city.

It would likely improve transit as well. $6 Billion is larger than we've ever seen.

And stop saying "Ontario place could be so much more" because...
1. What else could be built there that will be such a grand attraction? I can't think of anything. We don't need another park with green space, we are lucky enough to live in such a green city, plus a park won't make many jobs or attract people.
2. It's also very likely this won't even be in OP. Could be at MCC, etc.

Awesome explanation. What does MCC stand for?

[Taller, Better]

Originally Posted by waldenbg

And stop saying "Ontario place could be so much more" because...
1. What else could be built there that will be such a grand attraction? I can't think of anything. We don't need another park with green space, we are lucky enough to live in such a green city, plus a park won't make many jobs or attract people..

I could not agree more. What the heck could go there that would be "so much more"? We've had this thread afloat for some time, and no brilliant suggestions have come forward yet, let alone anyone with 6 billion bucks in their pocket that they are begging to drop on the project. No, we do not need another green space.. the shore already has miles of green space that people rarely even bother to use.
Sure it appears that casinos have sucked the life out of many cities, except when you realize the life had been sucked out of them decades before any casino came along.

[waldenbg]

Originally Posted by doug.to

Awesome explanation. What does MCC stand for?

Thanks MCC is the Metro Toronto Convention Center.

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

I could not agree more. What the heck could go there that would be "so much more"? We've had this thread afloat for some time, and no brilliant suggestions have come forward yet, let alone anyone with 6 billion bucks in their pocket that they are begging to drop on the project. No, we do not need another green space.. the shore already has miles of green space that people rarely even bother to use.
Sure it appears that casinos have sucked the life out of many cities, except when you realize the life had been sucked out of them decades before any casino came along.

'

Thank you! And I think this is a very possible idea, @hkskyline. First of all, let me assure you that MGM has done research. They are not going to spend $6 Billion on something that would not do well. There has obviously been a lot of thought put into this.

Also, if we go along with the attitude that a $6 Billion project is "too big for Toronto" then how will we ever grow? People are always saying we get the same old, same old. But this is unlike anything we've ever seen!

Who knows, it could include a ferris wheel, and other grand things. It could be the start of a new tourism era for Toronto!

[hkskyline]

Originally Posted by waldenbg

Thank you! And I think this is a very possible idea, @hkskyline. First of all, let me assure you that MGM has done research. They are not going to spend $6 Billion on something that would not do well. There has obviously been a lot of thought put into this.

Also, if we go along with the attitude that a $6 Billion project is "too big for Toronto" then how will we ever grow? People are always saying we get the same old, same old. But this is unlike anything we've ever seen!

Who knows, it could include a ferris wheel, and other grand things. It could be the start of a new tourism era for Toronto!

The casino business is a huge cash cow. Even if they spend all $6 billion and the hotel rooms stay empty, their casinos will still churn out the cash. They will always be able to entice gamblers to come drop their money even if all the other facilities gather dust. However, with this huge supply glut, the convention and hospitality industry in downtown Toronto will turn upside down. They won't be able to raise prices despite other increasing costs. This effectively puts an end to additional hotel and convention developments in downtown for a long time to come. It will also likely deter other casino operators from coming to do the same thing. It's a clever strategy - overbuild first to scare the others off - but carrying little risk since the slots and tables will always be open.

[Taller, Better]

"However, with this huge supply glut, the convention and hospitality industry in downtown Toronto will turn upside down."

Why these wild surmises of failure? Are we to assume the entire economy of Toronto is about to collapse, so let's not bother building anything new to attract more tourists in case none of it works and magically we get a massive glut? It has been well known for years that Toronto was woefully under-serviced for quality hotels and increasingly obvious we are running short of major new tourist attractions. There is no "competition" for this type of casino anywhere near. It is in a different league than CasinoRama, Woodbine, Niagara Falls, etc..
As we grow (and Toronto is growing) we build for the future; that is the only way a city gets ahead. Nothing would ever have been built in this city if we had automatically assumed it would not succeed; we certainly would never have had the CN Tower, because who in their right mind would ever want to go to the top of a tall telecommunications tower?

[hkskyline]

For many years there has been a surprising void of 5-star hotels in Toronto. In recent years that has started to change but would this sudden glut mean suddenly the rooms will fill up? I have my doubts.

The casino operator would probably not worry much about how many patrons they get at their restaurants, convention centres, and hotels. That's not the core business. As long as people come and gamble and can be lured by those facilities that lose money, they should still be able to make money net, but outside the resort's grounds, the rest of the hospitality, retail, and restaurant industry would likely not be able to compete when so much additional choice comes onto the market.

From an MGM perspective, they have very little to lose. The peripheral industries, however, have a lot up at stake. Sure, MGM is in a different league from Rama and Niagara Falls. How many casinos in the world actually lose money? But that's not the problem on hand. The real issue at stake is how many local stores and restaurants will go out of business as a result. Is that the future the city wants to take?

[monkeyronin]

I don't see how this could be bad at all for the city. If its at Ontario Place/Exhibition, it'll be in its own self-contained area where no one lives - no neighbours to complain or businesses to "steal" from. And it gets rid of a massive parking lot, provides revenue for the city, creates jobs, attracts tourists, and may even help to revitalize Ontario Place. Its not something I'd get excited about, but to think that it'll attract criminals and kill off the rest of the city is just silly.

As long as city allows it on the condition that they fund the Lakeshore LRT, I'm all for it.

[waldenbg]

Nothing innovative will ever happen if we don't let it. The "Toronto can't support something this big" is a terrible attitude to have. Nothing would be interesting if we did that.

You can't not allow something good because others might not do well.

If they had never built Canada's Wonderland, then perhaps we would be forced to goto OP and they would be making more money. However, Wonderland is a world class park with the 3rd most roller coasters in the world. I would much rather have that than OP.

Same with the casino. If they build nice hotels, then even if the hotels around it suffer, they will have to adapt.

[Kensingtonian]

My first thought was that a tacky casino does not belong in Toronto. After all, aren't casinos an economically depressed city's last ditch effort to bring in some money? Toronto isn't Windsor, Orillia, or Brantford.

But the more I thought about it, the more I realized the thing I love most about Toronto is the variety of things to do. I still think casinos look tacky and I, personally, would get no use out of it, but it would only add to the variety of Toronto and make the city more complex than it already is. There's way too much other stuff going on in Toronto for the casino to dominate the city the way they do in Niagara Falls and Windsor.

[Mollywood]

You guys have all lost your minds? All it takes is a few Americans to come here and dangle some shiny baubles in front of you and you're all ready to sell out your city. For people under 30 who know nothing about Toronto's development industry (think Skydome) I kinda understand but for anybody who knows how things work, well, it's pretty sad.

You guys are all ready to trash Ontario Place, which is one of the coolest looking places in North America. It shows how much you value the park and its spectacular architecture. The fact that you guys have no faith in its future, is the worst part. It shows you have no faith in your city.

I'm going to make one of my famous predictions because I seem to be really good at it.

1 - The AMAZING 8 BILLION dollar casino/resort will be cut back and NOTHING like the first renderings that come out. (YES, the cheapening will magically appear)

2 - The city of Toronto will make very little money from this. It will be MGM (or whoever builds it) who makes all the big bucks.

3 - It will have almost no effect on tourism. What it will have an effect on, is Casino Rama and Niagara. They will see a huge drop in revenue.

4 - The casino will do very well for the first few years but once people get tired of it, profits will go down. It will not have much effect on the city, except crime will probably go up. The 5 percent of gambling addicts will do desperate things to get money. No, crime will not go crazy but it will be effected by the casino.

5 - The financial deal the city thinks it's getting at first, will turn out to be not what we were lead to believe, under closer inspection. Of course, we will only find out the real details many years later. (Like Skydome, again) Governments will give these guys a much better deal then we realize and once the truth comes out, they will claim to have gotten bad advice. (politicians are NEVER to blame for the crap they get us into) Maybe a few years later, you'll read that they are now sitting on the board of directors of MGM, making big $$$. That scenario is certainly not unheard of and of course, it's all legal, right.

6 - If this is put at Ontario Place, they will most likely build it the way they build most casinos, which means it will be on the waterfront but it will be completely directed away from the water. It will destroy any potential to redevelop Ontario Place into a top rated tourist attraction for EVERYONE and not just for gamblers. It will destroy Ontario Place and its future of potentially becoming a great amusement (no, I don't mean Canada's Wonderland Amusement Park!) park and leisure tourist area.

EVERYTHING this casino is offering us, Toronto ALREADY HAS!

Luxury Hotel - YEP
Large Theatre - YEP
Slot Machines - YEP
Luxury Spa - Yep
Upscale Restaurant - YEP
Fancy Night Club - YEP
Upscale Shopping - YEP
Convention Facilities - YEP (many)
Prostitutes & Loan Sharks - YEP
Tacky Schlock - YEP

We already have ALL that "cool" stuff in Toronto, it just will be all in one area. So what? It's just more of the same old thing. Sure, it might have an exploding volcano or a crazy roller coaster but I bet it won't have much bling. It won't come close to the big, tacky schlock you see in Vegas, to the huge disappointment to all the fan boys.

Will this casino destroy Toronto? NO! Just like Rob Ford and all the other things that hinder real progress, Toronto will develop in spite of it. Toronto will become a great city even with a big, tacky casino, I just hope we don't lose Ontario Place because of it.

Anyway, those are my predictions and I will bring up this posting in a number of years from now, just to prove,


I WAS RIGHT!

Watch and see

I am not anti-casino, I just want to protect a place I love and that's Ontario Place. I would prefer no casino in Toronto but it's not that big of a deal for me. I only spend 20 bucks when I go with my family to Niagara Casino, so it's no biggie to me. I find them pretty dull, depressing places. I actually think casinos are a tax on the stupid but that's my humble opinion. lol

If Ford wants a casino, I say put it in Woodbine Live.

[Mollywood]

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

I could not agree more. What the heck could go there that would be "so much more"? We've had this thread afloat for some time, and no brilliant suggestions have come forward yet, let alone anyone with 6 billion bucks in their pocket that they are begging to drop on the project. No, we do not need another green space.. the shore already has miles of green space that people rarely even bother to use.
Sure it appears that casinos have sucked the life out of many cities, except when you realize the life had been sucked out of them decades before any casino came along.

Taller, I ain't looking to start a big debate with you here but I have to disagree 100%!

First of all, you are making the assumption that governments have tried to make Ontario Place great but just failed because there is nothing that worked. That could NOT be further from the truth. The Ontario government has been slowly closing things down, year after year, and making it worse. I remember clearly, how popular it was back in the old days. I used to work at the Zume Rhein Restaurant, in Ontario Place and we had lines to get in almost every night.

There has been no effort at all by governments, to improve Ontario Place. (none at all) We have NEVER been given a chance to make it better. Of course, there are MANY ways to make it popular again. There are hundreds of very successful parks all around the world, so the ideas are endless. What it takes is money, imagination and a bit of courage to take a few risks. Not only has this never happened but they have never even kept up basic maintenance. When I was at Ontario Place last year, the buildings were dirty, rusted and in shabby shape.

I don't believe for one second that everything possible was done to improve Ontario Place. We were promised it just a few months ago but now McGuinty has changed his tune. (and I'm PISSED!)

Even if they closed down all the buildings and attractions, I still think it's better to keep it as a public park for the public to enjoy. At least that way, there will always be the hope that maybe someone will come along and do something to realize it's true potential. A casino is just throwing up your hands up and basically saying I give up. It's MUCH too valuable to me, to do that.

[waldenbg]

@Mollywood You guys are all ready to trash Ontario Place, which is one of the coolest looking places in North America. It shows how much you value the park and its spectacular architecture. The fact that you guys have no faith in its future, is the worst part. It shows you have no faith in your city.

No, it shows we want an amazing billion dollar project.

1 - The AMAZING 8 BILLION dollar casino/resort will be cut back and NOTHING like the first renderings that come out. (YES, the cheapening will magically appear)

I would have to disagree with this. These developers are known to go big, look at previous project: City Center, Bellagio, etc.

2 - The city of Toronto will make very little money from this. It will be MGM (or whoever builds it) who makes all the big bucks.

The city will make a lot on taxes, plus it will be better than anything th government could have built if MGM are the ones who make it happen.

3 - It will have almost no effect on tourism. What it will have an effect on, is Casino Rama and Niagara. They will see a huge drop in revenue.

Like I said, you cannot compare this to Rama or Niagara. A billion dollar resort will definitely have a huge affect on tourism. Yeah, it will surely take business away from Rama and Niagara, but it will also attract a lot of people!!!

6 - If this is put at Ontario Place, they will most likely build it the way they build most casinos, which means it will be on the waterfront but it will be completely directed away from the water. It will destroy any potential to redevelop Ontario Place into a top rated tourist attraction for EVERYONE and not just for gamblers. It will destroy Ontario Place and its future of potentially becoming a great amusement (no, I don't mean Canada's Wonderland Amusement Park!) park and leisure tourist area.

First, it is very likely this will NOT be in Ontario Place. What do you think Ontario Place can be anyway? I have seen no good ideas.


So what? It's just more of the same old thing. Sure, it might have an exploding volcano or a crazy roller coaster but I bet it won't have much bling. It won't come close to the big, tacky schlock you see in Vegas, to the huge disappointment to all the fan boys.

Actually, something like this would exceed many Vegas hotels.

Will this casino destroy Toronto? NO! Just like Rob Ford and all the other things that hinder real progress, Toronto will develop in spite of it. Toronto will become a great city even with a big, tacky casino, I just hope we don't lose Ontario Place because of it.


I am not anti-casino, I just want to protect a place I love and that's Ontario Place. I would prefer no casino in Toronto but it's not that big of a deal for me. I only spend 20 bucks when I go with my family to Niagara Casino, so it's no biggie to me. I find them pretty dull, depressing places. I actually think casinos are a tax on the stupid but that's my humble opinion. lol

Have you ever been to the Wynn, Bellagio or Aria in Las Vegas? I am a young teenager who cannot legally gamble, and I never have.

I have gone to Vegas 3 times for a week each time during the summer with my family and our family friends. We generally stay on the strip where the Casino Resorts are, and we all think, including us kids, WOW its beautiful!!

These places are amazing! Our parents went in the casino maybe once and spent $20 for fun, but there is SO MUCH MORE TO DO!!

Shows, rides, arcades, the malls, restaurants, everything is amazing and so fun! It's all huge and literally makes you say wow. Anything between $2 and $6 Billion falls under the high end category in Vegas. There is seriously no comparing this to Niagara, Detroit, Windsor, Rama, etc.

Only 5% is Gaming!!!!! The rest is everything else!!


What if this was done at the MCC for redevelopment? Then the precious Ontario Place could be used as something (nobody knows what) world class.

I would love to have this at MCC, or somewhere else downtown, and have OP redeveloped. But I am stuck on what OP could be. An amusement park, but not Wonderland? Well, we have the Ex.. I don't know what other types of amusement parks there are.

You can't expect and Opera House here, we have the awesome FSC. Maybe the ferris wheel, but I think that would go great with the casino resort. Hmm. What else is there?

The government will surely not spend billions of dollars on something for OP ilk MGM would.

I don't want another green park here. We have enough of those, plus Downsview under construction.

I would love a Disney/Universal type park, but OP isn't big enough.

Wonderland is already freaking amazing as a theme park.
What do you think?

[hkskyline]

As some people are so engrained to think the casino will magically cause a boom to the tourism industry, are there actual real examples of such big sustainable tourism gains to Montreal and Detroit after their casinos opened?

Some people also have a false perception that the casino is only a small percentage of the development. Ultimately, MGM is going to make a lot of money off the casino, not the peripheral developments, and the city will get a small fraction of that in taxes ... a very small fraction given they'll likely give tax breaks to entice them to come.

[ChrisJudd83]

Crown casino not only provided the biggest entertainment complex in the southern hemisphere it also transformed a rundown industrial area just across the riverbank from downtown into an extension of downtown rivaling the original cbd. I'm not sure how far away this potential casino is from downtown but these things tend to have a flow on effect. The potential of a new district is there to be created and yes the Ontario will rake in billions in taxes over the years. Yeah Melbourne is not known for a casino but the complex is known as one of the biggest tourist attractions in the city. Having said that, if Ontario does this in the same league as crown then it could eclipse the cn tower. It's not the casino that will determine it's success but the numerous amenities of the complex complementing the casino

[Mollywood]

How will a new casino be a huge tourism boot when almost every major city in the world has one or else has one close by? Any serious gambler who wants a full on gambling experience, is going to go to Vegas or Atlantic City, not Toronto. The main market for a Toronto casino will be people living in the GTA or travellers who came to Toronto for other reasons like a convention. It will not attract large numbers of tourists, who come here for the casino.

Another point is, most casino gamblers prefer the slot machines and we already have those at Woodbine Racetrack, so serious slot gamblers can already get their fix. Should they build a huge casino to make it better? Hell, why not but I just think it's best to keep it at Woodbine. These monster casinos are tacky and cheaply built, so what better place to put a big, tacky and cheap building, than in Ford's part of town. It just makes sense.

That way it creates one new megga attraction but also saves my preferred attraction, Ontario Place and The CNE, which I also think could be a fantastic attraction, if given the love and care it deserves.

[waldenbg]

Originally Posted by hkskyline

As some people are so engrained to think the casino will magically cause a boom to the tourism industry, are there actual real examples of such big sustainable tourism gains to Montreal and Detroit after their casinos opened?

It really seems like you have not read any of my other posts. First of all, there is simply no comparing this to Detroit or Montreal. This project would not just be a casino. It's an entire resort complex. The casinos in Montreal an Detroit were built to be just that; a casino. The casino in detroit was built at a cost of $800 Million This development would cost 7.5 times more.

That being said, the casino in Detroit did help the city. It created the nicest hotel in the city, and a reason for people to go there.

Since 2000, the city has seen continuous annual increases in tax revenues from its casino; the city estimates it will collect $178,250,000 in casino taxes alone for 2007.


The resort that would be built by MGM in Toronto is not just a tacky casino. It is in an entire different league.

Originally Posted by hkskyline

Some people also have a false perception that the casino is only a small percentage of the development. Ultimately, MGM is going to make a lot of money off the casino, not the peripheral developments, and the city will get a small fraction of that in taxes ... a very small fraction given they'll likely give tax breaks to entice them to come.

It is not a false perception that the casino is only going to be a small percentage of the development. It has already been said that the casino will only take up 5% of the total space. The Crown in Melbourne has given over $1 billion in taxes to the local government. Who cares if MGM makes most of their profits from the casino part? It's only taking up 5% of this development, leaving the rest with luxury hotels, nightclubs, shows, shopping, convention space, arcades, and more.

If this is built somewhere in downtown Toronto, it will be a grand, luxurious, amazing attraction, even if you don't gamble. If this is built out in some suburb, it will definitely be comparable to Windsor, Rama, or Montreal.

[waldenbg]

A few things I forgot to address...

Originally Posted by Mollywood

4 - The casino will do very well for the first few years but once people get tired of it, profits will go down.

The Crown Casino has been open for 14 years, and it is still the number one attraction there.

Originally Posted by Mollywood

How will a new casino be a huge tourism boot when almost every major city in the world has one or else has one close by? Any serious gambler who wants a full on gambling experience, is going to go to Vegas or Atlantic City, not Toronto. The main market for a Toronto casino will be people living in the GTA or travellers who came to Toronto for other reasons like a convention. It will not attract large numbers of tourists, who come here for the casino.

Actually, there are no 5 star hotels in atlantic city. No multi billion dollar resorts. The most expensive resorts in Atlantic City cost far less than $1 billion.

This development will be on par with Vegas' most high end, luxurious developments. So, people will be coming here.

[JustinB]

Mollywood makes a brilliant point: All the amenities that this mega-resort is supposed to offer, Downtown Toronto has in spades. There is no reason to build a mega-resort at Ontario Place when downtown Toronto is already a large tourist draw.

This resort does not need to be built in downtown Toronto, it can be built at Woddbine, or elsewhere in the 905.

If the pro-casino people think Toronto is going to benefit greatly from this casino, you're deluding yourself, Toronto will see an tiny benefit. The purpose of this casino is to fill the province's coffers, they make no secret of it.

[waldenbg]

I just found something very interesting that can be compared to our possible resort complex.

Resorts World Miami.

I accidentally stumbled upon this, and I think it is of great relevance to our situation.

The proposal is for a $3 billion resort complex on prime waterfront land in Downtown Miami.

Resorts World Miami will combine iconic architecture, world class dining and entertainment and luxury hotels and residences.

The casino will take up a maximum of 10% of the entire development. Sound familiar?

Resorts World Miami will boost confidence in Florida's economy, creating 15,000 direct and indirect construction jobs and 30,000 permanent positions on an ongoing basis, attracting more inbound investment, and substantially increasing the tax base for the city, county and state.

The towers sit atop an 8-story podium where guests can immerse themselves in a double-story, 250,000 square foot luxury retail galleria; more than 50 restaurants, lounges, bars and nightclubs; a high-tech multimedia entertainment area showcasing the music and culture of Florida and South America; and 700,000 square feet of convention and meeting space which includes a 200,000 square foot column-free ballroom, the largest in the United States. A casino will be included if Florida's legislature and governor approve Destination Resort legislation.

Here is a photo of what is proposed:



Here is a video:



There are many similarities and differences to the two situations.

They are both multi billion dollar projects that include less than 10% gaming space.

However, our budget is potentially two times more, and our casino will only take up 5% of the space.

They both are to be built in a central downtown location, along the waterfront.

They both will include resorts, shopping, restaurants, shows, condos (knowing Toronto i would't be surprised, even though there has been no word on a condos yet for us) etc.

It has been said that Toronto already has luxury hotels, shopping, shows, restaurants, etc.

So does Miami. That doesn't mean a project like this shouldn't be built! It just ads to the diversity.

Mimai, like Toronto, has its fair share of tourist attractions. However, you cannot say that a project like this would not increase tourism.

Miami also has casinos in its surrounding towns. Hollywood, FL (near Miami) has a Hard Rock, which could be compared to Niagara, Rama, or Montreal Casino. Yeah, this project will likely take business away from the Hard Rock in Hollywood, but it is on an entire different level, as would the Toronto complex be.

Miami is also different than Toronto In many ways. It is one of the worst run cities in America. They are almost broke, and can't even finish started transit projects.

We do not know exactly what to expect here until we see our proposal, but I think this is comparable.

I do not think you can compare what we are getting to anything in Vegas. Vegas is a casino city. Toronto is completely different. The developers know that.

I think we have come to associate the word "casino" with a negative outlook. I think anyone who thinks a project like this would harm the city is crazy.

With a $6 billion possibility, this is the kind of thing to expect.