A new idea for Leeds-Bradford tram

[God's Own City]

So it's generally accepted that one of the issues that Leeds suffers from in getting things like supertram/NGT funding is the lack of connectivity between Leeds and other areas, it being very city-specific, rather than region-led.

As such, I'd suggest we need to look at our existing transport corridors and work out where we can most likely get funding for a scheme. The area, I'd suggest, is between Leeds & Bradford, using the 'south' route-serving West & southwest Leeds, and southeast Bradford, in other words, the areas not served by the two existing railway lines. Given there did used to be railway line here, and there's quite a lot of extant trackbed, or stuff with little building on it, it seems a great oportunity to reopen & be the first stage of a system which could then be extended on. So a starting route might be:

LEEDS-Millenium Square
LEEDS-City Square
Wellington Place (next to the Wagon lift)
The Island (Gotts development between LLC & Aire)
Armley Road (outside Solk house)
ARMLEY (Outside the school)
Gotts Park
Wyther Park (Cockshott Lane)
Scarbros Junction
BRAMLEY-Station
Rycroft (Swinnow Lane)
PUDSEY-Lowtown
PUDSEY-Greenside
Westroyd (West end of Greenside Tunnel)
TYERSAL-Tyersal Lane
Cutler Heights (Holme Wood Road)
Bowling (New Hey Roundabout)
Prospect Street (interchange with re-opened Bowling Station)
BRADFORD-Interchange (Bridge Street)
BRADFORD-Centenary Square

This would be about 60% segregated, use a good amount of old railway line, give a 3rd connection between Leeds & Bradford, a much improved connection between Bradford & Pudsey, and an entirely new connection between Cutler Heights, Tyersal and Leeds. Thoughts?

[Aaronj09]

NGT has gotten the go ahead already!

[Suburban Knight]

Originally Posted by Aaronj09

NGT has gotten the go ahead already!

Not officially, just looks a lot more likely!

[oyster]

I wouldn't be so sure.

[Leeds No.1]

I'm still not confident about NGT getting the go ahead, especially now we know that LSSE and LRGP are going ahead. I'm pretty frustrated that we've asked for money for the IRR maintenance; who made that decision? Money would have been found for that from somewhere, so why put it up against important infrastructure projects?

A Leeds - Bradford tram might be even more unlikely- West Leeds has never been on an initial rapid transit proposal- probably for a good reason. With two lines to Bradford, and new stations opening between, the case is even less strong.

The most needy area of the city transport-wise is the north east where there are few dual carriageways and no rail lines, but a dependency on First's buses.

[God's Own City]

this is based on the idea (likely IMO, given it would take up 40% of all the funds in the transport investment pot) that NGT is refused, and that this would be a good starting point for a system, as Manchester shows that it's much easier to get funding for extensions to existing systems than it is to get funding for a new one.

A Leeds - Bradford tram might be even more unlikely- West Leeds has never been on an initial rapid transit proposal- probably for a good reason. With two lines to Bradford, and new stations opening between, the case is even less strong.

I'd definitely support reopenings at Armley Canal Road, Kirkstall, Calverley & Rodley, Idle, Manningham, Armley Moor and Laisterdyke. But aside from Armley & Bramley, the route I've outlined would serve similar areas (Pudsey, Tyersal) where public transport is very poor. Also, simply the idea of a 'Greater Leeds' tram is more likely to get funding, IMO, as more people have an investment in it, and it's seen as a 'bigger' project than one that just goes 4 miles out to Seacroft. The NE would, however, be one of the extensions to a system I'd be for, as would Wakefield via Rothwell & Lofthouse Gate, and Heckmondwike via Farnley & Birstall.

[Mister City]

Originally Posted by Aaronj09

NGT has gotten the go ahead already!

Originally Posted by Suburban Knight

Not officially, just looks a lot more likely!

Where did you folks hear this? What's going on?

[Skychaser 2005]

Originally Posted by God's Own City

So it's generally accepted that one of the issues that Leeds suffers from in getting things like supertram/NGT funding is the lack of connectivity between Leeds and other areas, it being very city-specific, rather than region-led.

As such, I'd suggest we need to look at our existing transport corridors and work out where we can most likely get funding for a scheme. The area, I'd suggest, is between Leeds & Bradford, using the 'south' route-serving West & southwest Leeds, and southeast Bradford, in other words, the areas not served by the two existing railway lines. Given there did used to be railway line here, and there's quite a lot of extant trackbed, or stuff with little building on it, it seems a great oportunity to reopen & be the first stage of a system which could then be extended on. So a starting route might be:

LEEDS-Millenium Square
LEEDS-City Square
Wellington Place (next to the Wagon lift)
The Island (Gotts development between LLC & Aire)
Armley Road (outside Solk house)
ARMLEY (Outside the school)
Gotts Park
Wyther Park (Cockshott Lane)
Scarbros Junction
BRAMLEY-Station
Rycroft (Swinnow Lane)
PUDSEY-Lowtown
PUDSEY-Greenside
Westroyd (West end of Greenside Tunnel)
TYERSAL-Tyersal Lane
Cutler Heights (Holme Wood Road)
Bowling (New Hey Roundabout)
Prospect Street (interchange with re-opened Bowling Station)
BRADFORD-Interchange (Bridge Street)
BRADFORD-Centenary Square

This would be about 60% segregated, use a good amount of old railway line, give a 3rd connection between Leeds & Bradford, a much improved connection between Bradford & Pudsey, and an entirely new connection between Cutler Heights, Tyersal and Leeds. Thoughts?

If this was seriously proposed 10 or 15 years ago, I think we may well of had a tram system in West Yorks now. Great idea and is one of the reasons Leeds has missed out on the Supertram through lack of a "inter-city" proposal

[Shiny_Dave]

Like your thinking GOC. Leeds currrently has more jobs than resident working age people. If we are to see areas like city centre south and the Aire Valley be developed we need to be able to get more people into and around the city.

Here are some more suggestions:
- Leeds centre, Horsforth Station, LBIA, (the future) Apperley Bridge station, Bradford Centre.

- Wakefield, Dewsbury, Bradford

- Wakefield, Tingley, M62 J28, Wortley, New Pudsey Station, LBIA

- Leeds to Wetherby via York Road, Seacroft then down the A64 where it would move onto the old Wetherby branch line.

- Also extend the Stourton branch to the A1 at Fairburn Ings through the Aire Valley.

- LBIA to the Aire Valley via Holt Park, Moor Allerton, Moortown, Seacroft and Cross Gates

[lazygamer]

Good timing, program on BBC Four tonight about trams:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode..._Named_Desire/

Features video footage of trams in/around Leeds (with anecdotes from Alan Bennett)

[Suburban Knight]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

I'm pretty frustrated that we've asked for money for the IRR maintenance; who made that decision? Money would have been found for that from somewhere, so why put it up against important infrastructure projects?

Can't remember the exact figure but it was an awful lot of money which was needed for sorely-needed repairs.

And it might not be as pretty or noticeable as a tram, but the IRR is far more crucial to Leeds - when there's a breakdown, accident or roadworks on it the entire city becomes gridlocked!

[cmj]

Originally Posted by Shiny_Dave

- Leeds to Wetherby via York Road, Seacroft then down the A64 where it would move onto the old Wetherby branch line.

I'd think Wetherby would be better served having a 'light' rail connection to Crossgates and then into the city on the hopefully electrified route.

[Leeds No.1]

Is it now quicker to use the A1(M)/M1/A63 into the City from Wetherby as opposed to the A58?

As for the IRR, that's precisely the reason why I don't think it should have been submitted. Because the works are necessary and so important, the money would have been found- whether by the council, LEP or central government. I highly doubt it would be let to fall into a state of serious disrepair.

[God's Own City]

I think Wetherby would be better served by reopening the line between Cross Gates (Leeds) and Follifoot (Harrogate), especially given thew trackbed is basically in place all the way.

For a further extension of the tram, I'd really look at Heckondwike & Kirklees, given there are no decent PT links in the area. Something like

LEEDS City Square
LEEDS Railway station (Neville Street)
City Walk (Meadow Road)
Temple (Sweet Street)
Holbeck (Domestric Street Viaduct)
Lowfields Road (Gelderd Road)
City West (Gelderd Road)
MORLEY & GILDERSOME Asquith Avenue
BIRSTALL PARKWAY Gelderd Road
BIRSTALL Nelson Street
White Lee Road
HECMONDWIKE New North Corner
HECKMONDWIKE Barber Square
HECMONDWIKE Market Place
HECMONDWIKE Central Station

[Lad 2011]

Originally Posted by lazygamer

Good timing, program on BBC Four tonight about trams:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode..._Named_Desire/

Trams are shite

[Mister City]

Originally Posted by Lad 2011

Trams are shite

Well I'd prefer to see trams / trolleybus system to the streets of Leeds than the shocking transport system we have at the moment.

[Lad 2011]

Originally Posted by Mister City

Well I'd prefer to see trams / trolleybus system to the streets of Leeds than the shocking transport system we have at the moment.

Well anyone would but if we be honest the whole idea of trams is antiquated... you might as well build a railway on the road for trains to bomb up and down

[Aaronj09]

Trolleybuses are better then trams..

[THEONETHATLEEDS]

Trams and trolley buses will not solve the problem in Leeds, I fully believe that any extra transport systems like the trolley buses will only increase the congestion as they will be taking the roads away from car users, and the vast majority of car users will not be served in there geographical area by the proposed trolley buses, and therefore the traffic congestion will increase at peak times...... IMO

[Leeds No.1]

Originally Posted by God's Own City

I think Wetherby would be better served by reopening the line between Cross Gates (Leeds) and Follifoot (Harrogate), especially given thew trackbed is basically in place all the way.

No it's not. Harrogate - Wetherby could re-open, although there would need to be new alignment around Spofforth. Leeds - Wetherby would be impossible to re-open. Nearly all of it would need to be on a new alignment.

Out of Wetherby, it cuts straight through a golf course, before carving its way through heavily developed areas of Collingham. There are significant obstructions in Bardsey, Thorner and Scholes too.

There are sections that could be used, but a tram-train system would be more suitable, and could connect East Keswick, Scarcroft and expanding areas of Seacroft/Pendas Fields that were never connected in the first place.