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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:35 PM   #141
Beck's
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A bloody shame nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012. Most projects only need half a year additional construction time. I know these projects are not solely built for Euro 2012, but if you're constructing it anyway, you may as well finish it in time for a major event like that
Despite the fact we won't complete most of the roads on the championship, our road infrastructure is in progress and we're constructing the roads for us at all, not only for the event. Besides this probably most of the football fun/tourists would come to Poland by plane so they couldn't feel the lack of parts of highway/motorway.
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Last edited by Beck's; April 3rd, 2012 at 08:45 PM.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
How many kilometers of motorway and expressway opened in Poland and in Ukraine last year?
Here You have list of highways & motorways, opened in 2011 in Poland.
Quote:
Completed investments in 2011

19.01.2011 - S8 Warszawa: Konotopa–Prymasa Tysiąclecia, 2x3, 10,4 km
21.04.2011 - A1 Rowień - Świerklany, 2x2/3, 6,6 km
27.04.2011 - S7 Skarżysko-Kamienna - Występa, 2x2, 16,7 km
05.05.2011 - A8 obwodnica Wrocławia: Wrocław Południe - Wrocław Lotnisko, 2x3 7,5 km
13.07.2011 - S3 węzeł Parłówko część 2x2 4,2 km
13.07.2011 - S3 węzeł Parłówko część 1x2 1,9 km
15.07.2011 - A8 obwodnica Wrocławia: Wrocław Północ - Wrocław Psie Pole, 2x2 4,5 km
28.07.2011 - S7 Elbląg - Pasłęk, 2x2, 14,6 km
19.08.2001 - S1 Bielsko-Biała, w. Komorowice - w. Rosta, 2x2, 2,8 km
31.08.2011 - S8 przy obwodnicy Wrocławia, 2x2, 0,5 km
31.08.2011 - A8 most na obwodnicy Wrocławia, 2x3, 1,8 km
31.08.2011 - A8 obwodnica Wrocławia część 2, 2x2, 8,6 km
30.09.2011 - A1 węzeł Maciejów - węzeł Sośnica, 2x3, 8,2 km
14.10.2011 - A1 Grudziądz - Toruń, 2x2, 62,4 km
28.10.2011 - S69 Bielsko-Biała, w. Rosta - w. Mikuszowice, 2x2, 9,1 km
28.11.2011 - S11 ZOP, pomiędzy węzłem Swadzim a węzłem Dąbrówka, 2x2, 8,1 km
30.11.2011 - A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl, 2x2, 105,9 km
16.12.2011 - S3 obwodnica Miękowa, 2x2, 4,1 km
17.12.2011 - S74 Kielce, odcinek miejski, 2x2, 2,7 km
17.12.2011 - S74 Kielce - Cedzyna, 2x2, 4,2 km
21.12.2011 - S19 obwodnica Kocka i Woli Skromowskiej, 1x2, 7,7 km
22.12.2011 - A1 Zabrze Północ (Wieszowa) - Gliwice Maciejów, 2x3, 8,1 km
22.12.2011 - S6 obwodnica Nowogardu, 2x2, 9,4 km

In total, completed in 2011: 310,0 km (highways: 213,6 km, motorways 2x2/2x3: 86,8 km, motorways 1x2: 9,6 km)
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A bloody shame nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012.
Looking at the list above of motorways and highways opened last year, I cannot agree that "nearly no project is finished in time for Euro 2012." Thanks kmieciu for posting the list.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #144
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Well, major projects like A1, A2 and A4 were planned to be completed before Euro 2012. That's more kilometers than what opened in all of 2011.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 06:53 AM   #145
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These plans were unreal at the start. Before april 2007 these plans were for the 2007-2015 year.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 11:09 AM   #146
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Maybe the 5-year planning time for Euro 2012 is not enough, in cases of countries who need to upgrade a substantial amount of their road/airport/rail/tourist/football infrastructure.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #147
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Countries who need more than 5 years to upgrade a substantial amount of their infrastructure should not be awarded with the organization of such an event, it's as simple as that.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #148
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Guys, who cares about over a dozen kilometers stretch of motorway somewhere near the border? Do you think that this event will be pure disaster, because motorways don't cut the whole territory of Poland? Main things will be completed and it's the most important; if you're affraid that this country is completely wild, don't travel here.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #149
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Can we be happy that so much new road infrastructure has been built and continues to be built?
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Old April 6th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Maybe the 5-year planning time for Euro 2012 is not enough, in cases of countries who need to upgrade a substantial amount of their road/airport/rail/tourist/football infrastructure.
I understand the planning of road development projects in PL goes far beyond 5-year term. The onus would be on the funding available in future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Countries who need more than 5 years to upgrade a substantial amount of their infrastructure should not be awarded with the organization of such an event, it's as simple as that.
That's a fairly narrow-minded view. In Poland the Euro 2012 acted as a trigger event for infrastructure development, which had been suffering from underinvestment for decades. However, the project management side from GDDKiA and legal regulations (in part. focussing on the lowest bid price in public tenders, without taking into account e.g. reputation of the bidder) could've been better, for sure.

And from organisational side of the fence, I believe the Euro cup will be organised in PL on a good level (certainly not worse than in such countries like eg. Italy).
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Old April 6th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
That's a fairly narrow-minded view. In Poland the Euro 2012 acted as a trigger event for infrastructure development, which had been suffering from underinvestment for decades. However, the project management side from GDDKiA and legal regulations (in part. focussing on the lowest bid price in public tenders, without taking into account e.g. reputation of the bidder) could've been better, for sure.

And from organisational side of the fence, I believe the Euro cup will be organised in PL on a good level (certainly not worse than in such countries like eg. Italy).
Let's organize next meeting in Nigeria and let's see if you still think that way.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #152
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I'm not going to speak for Ukraine, but if you wanted to insult Poland and Polish people by saying that, you'd need to try harder next time. Anyway, I won't get down to such level of argumentation.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 03:18 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
I'm not going to speak for Ukraine, but if you wanted to insult Poland and Polish people by saying that, you'd need to try harder next time. Anyway, I won't get down to such level of argumentation.
You understood wrong, I never mentioned Poland. You made this association, probably you think that Poland and Nigeria are comparable, not me.

I just said that this competition should be organized by countries that require less than 5 years to build infrastructures. I never said that Poland and Ukraine aren't such countries. If they can build whatever is necessary, then it's good!

Think twice and read better when you accuse someone of insulting.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #154
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Whatever...

This discussion is held in a thread related to Poland & Ukraine, and not a theoretical 3rd party country, so it seems to me that any conclusions or assumptions of the users would refer to PL & UA as well.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Let's organize next meeting in Nigeria and let's see if you still think that way.
Euro cup in Nigeria?
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Old April 6th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
Whatever...

This discussion is held in a thread related to Poland & Ukraine, and not a theoretical 3rd party country, so it seems to me that any conclusions or assumptions of the users would refer to PL & UA as well.
Apparently, you're wrong.
I don't care about football, and I don't know any Pole, so I have no reason to insult them.

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Euro cup in Nigeria?
Yeah, I realized that afterwards
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Old April 6th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #157
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Quote:
I just said that this competition should be organized by countries that require less than 5 years to build infrastructures.
Ukraine needs minimum 20 years to build infrastructures...<lol>
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Old April 7th, 2012, 01:06 AM   #158
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You should remember that countries hosting Olympic Games or World Championships in football are known 6-7 years earlier, not 5.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #159
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Limiting the organisation of such events as football Euro only to the countries that "have" the infrastructures seems to me bit stupid. The infrastructure is only about the magnitude of such events, it doesnt really hinder or is crucial for the organisation of the event istelf. I would be the same happy with Euro tournament that would happen on stadions for 5000 people as with one happening on stadions for 50 000. I dont think that events like Euro or olympic games should be so resources demanding that it would drain the investment of a country. Most important if there is investment made that should be made in a wise way and should be ready to be usefull many years after the event is long forgotten. Its really stupid to invest heavilly in event connected things and find them uselles afterwards, or of bad quality because of rushing. And I think that the polish plan for infrustructure is something that will serve the country long after the euro, and that the euro was rather good kick for it.

I think that the euro should have been in Poland even if they it did not promise to build all these new highways. It is not something that you have to have in order to organize a football match. Or a huge stadions etc. It is only something that allows to make things bigger and smoother.

The problem here lays with promising more than you can deliver. Or not being able to deliver on time what you have promised. Therefore I find it better not to promise too much. Because that causes further problems. Anyways I wouldnt have heavy head over if someone complains he had to drive on a local road because something was not finished. Because it will be finished in the end and it will serve the country for many years. I would be more concerned about those many years then about the one event Euro. The only thing you will probably remember about Euro is who had won.


and to g.spinoza... I dont know why country like Nigeria could have not organized a world class event like a football championship. It would only have had different proportions and size. But it would have been doable, certainly. And it would have been right in the sense of what sport should do and why we have it and praise it so much. What I would find indeed nonsensical is to require Nigeria to produce event in the style of advanced european country. It would be complete loss of resources.

Last edited by Surel; April 7th, 2012 at 12:47 PM.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_siberia View Post
You should remember that countries hosting Olympic Games or World Championships in football are known 6-7 years earlier, not 5.
You`re right. We should remember that all new roads constuctions didn`t started after april 2007. General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways had to prepair "new" Euro2012 projects.

Last edited by Luki_SL; April 7th, 2012 at 03:19 PM.
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