Predictions for 2012 - Page 2

VoldemortBlack · December 22nd, 2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apologiesforthedelay

Surely it would have to be in the old Mayfield Station?

I dont think they'll choose that because of all the bottlenecks on the Stockport to Piccadilly stretch.

Think I suggested a while back that the current trains from London be diverted via Warrington and onto the WCML that way into a new station at Middlewood Locks or whatever and the high speed trains use the route currently used by the Virgin Trains (if they were going to do a cheap job of it)

Seasonedbest · December 22nd, 2011, 09:50 PM

Its looking bleak for 2012 in terms of building construction.

apologiesforthedelay · December 22nd, 2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoldemortBlack

I dont think they'll choose that because of all the bottlenecks on the Stockport to Piccadilly stretch.

Think I suggested a while back that the current trains from London be diverted via Warrington and onto the WCML that way into a new station at Middlewood Locks or whatever and the high speed trains use the route currently used by the Virgin Trains (if they were going to do a cheap job of it)

Where is Middlewood Locks?

VoldemortBlack · December 22nd, 2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apologiesforthedelay

Where is Middlewood Locks?

Its the huge bit of wasteland south of Chapel St. I'd copy a link to a map but I'm on my phone so it's a wee bit difficult.

tomegranate · December 22nd, 2011, 10:15 PM

Allow me: http://g.co/maps/wuerv

apologiesforthedelay · December 22nd, 2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoldemortBlack

Its the huge bit of wasteland south of Chapel St. I'd copy a link to a map but I'm on my phone so it's a wee bit difficult.

Think I've found it!

apologiesforthedelay · December 22nd, 2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegranate

Allow me: http://g.co/maps/wuerv

Cheers!

Do you think they would put a spur off Eccles line for the Metrolink to run there?

WatcherZero · December 22nd, 2011, 10:30 PM

Leeds and Bristol have a five year supply of empty Grade A office space, Manchester supply is down to two years so more office projects will be restarted in anticipation that they will take longer than two years to build (course I said the same thing last year and all that begun was CO-OP).

thecityofgold · December 22nd, 2011, 10:31 PM

HS2 at Pomona would be a dream scenario for 2012. If it happened it would certainly be accompanied by significant development around the new station and would bring forward the inevitable Manchester / SQ conglomeration.

VoldemortBlack · December 22nd, 2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apologiesforthedelay

Cheers!

Do you think they would put a spur off Eccles line for the Metrolink to run there?

Metrolink will one day be extended to Wigan on the current line via Walkden & Atherton, so when it is it'll pass right past the Middlewood Locks site (and so a station would probably be built there)

LNGCats · December 23rd, 2011, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apologiesforthedelay

See my signature.

Wirlie suffered the same as me, we know f all.

andysimo123 · December 23rd, 2011, 03:20 AM

More than certain....

- Origin will stay a concrete hole.
- Travel Lodge will build two more mash potato style hotels in the City.
- Chethams, Metropolitan University Business School and One Commercial street will all finally be completed.
- Axis will stay a TV Screen and nothing more.
- Elisabeth House will be gone by April.
- Nuovo will stay a messed up building site.
- We'll all look at the Premier Inn on Dale Street thinking 'modular construction, 1970s, this looks cheap'
- The Indigo Hotel by Co-op will start construction and be one of the best quality buildings built between 2012-2014.
- Gateway house will be redeveloped
- Plans for the old BBC site will be shown off but nothing will happen on the ground.
- ITV Trafford will shoot ahead with construction work.
- More plans for the site of the intercontinental hotel will be shown off.
- The old ITV studios plans will stay under wraps until its sold off in 2013.
- The new Etap hotel will shoot up.
- Old Trafford Cricket Ground work will carry on, the Tesco next door will see ground work start.
- Nothing will happen at Jackson's Wharf.
- Co-op will show plans for the next stage of their masterplan.

Might happen....

- Ground work starts on the Exchange Quay Towers
- Another student development is proposed in the Southern City Centre.
- Elisabeth house replacement starts work during the summer.
- FC United and Swinton will see work start on both their stadiums.
- Belle Vue speed way track will start construction.
- Barton Square will see construction work start with a new roof and second floor added.
+ Possible expansion of the main building with larger stores being added on.
- Sale Sharks will make the mistake of moving into the Salford City Reds stadium.
- A changed and smaller Derwent Street will break into construction after ground work.
- Work on Brazennose House will start.
- The old Peterloo House will be knocked down.
- Those Salford student flats will see construction start.

Unlikely but possible....

- Odeon is demolished.
- The old Employment Exchange will finally see its last days demolished before works starts on a new hotel.
- Peel will announce plans for the expansion of media city.
- Spinningfields could see movement on a taller development but its much shorter than we all hoped.
- Oddfellows house is demolished.
- Work on the Embankment offices at Greengate could start.

Seems enough to look at without any transport predictions.

andrewh1973 · December 23rd, 2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andysimo123

- The old Employment Exchange will finally see its last days demolished before works starts on a new hotel.

Which employment exchange? Where?

iheartthenew · December 23rd, 2011, 11:22 AM

It's the derelict building on Aytoun St - behind the Malmaison Hotel

andysimo123 · December 23rd, 2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewh1973

Which employment exchange? Where?

Its where the proposed 160m Crown Tower was to be built. I believe a new Holiday Inn or similar is now planned for the site.

Mwmbwls · December 23rd, 2011, 01:21 PM

Predictions for twenty twelve.

1: The IPPR North report on the apparent inequality of investment in transport links in the English regions will be filed in the tray marked “long grass”
http://www.ippr.org/images/media/fil...1%201_8411.pdf

2: The Competition Commission report on the bus industry will be filed likewise
http://www.competition-commission.or...tions_1_15.pdf
Which is a pity - because this is a seriously flawed document that needs to be exposed to public scrutiny. For nearly thirty years bus users in this country have been used as lab rats in an experiment in privatisation. In London a control group of bus users has not been exposed to the transition to oligopoly experienced by those outside of London, as excellently detailed in the Competition committee report. If you live in the regions and feel like a first class taxpayer and a second class traveller - it’s because you are. As with banking and housing concepts of self-correcting markets driven by the “hidden hand” of competition have proved as illusory as the idea of a “hidden hand”. The Competition Commission ruled out looking at the causes of this situation and focussed on the symptoms. They have not grasped the way that the larger bus operators now can play the system and that radical restructuring is required. After all the London system does demonstrably work.

“We decided not to recommend the introduction of franchising either instead of or alongside our other measures. We concluded that, compared with the possible introduction of franchising, our remedy package directly addresses the AECs, is at least as effective in addressing the associated customer detriment and is less costly and therefore provides a more proportionate solution. However, we recognize that there is existing legislation enabling LTAs to introduce franchising in England, Scotland and Wales and we would not wish to rule out its future application in particular local markets where the respective legislative requirements are met. We also note that LTAs have wider social and policy objectives that are not relevant to this investigation, but which may legitimately lead them to take a different view on the desirability of introducing franchising in relation to the local bus markets for which they are accountable”.

They conclude their report with a cynical "Ho Ho Ho" IIRC.

3: There will be a series of rows as the extent of the TPE (and its possible successors) land grab for train paths over the Ordsall-Victoria-Oxford Road-Piccadilly link is appreciated. Expect purple clouds of rage from Northern Welsh, West Lancashire, Calder and Rossendale Valley passengers as they find themselves exiled to Victoria.

4: Will common sense prevail? Progressing the Trans-Pennine electrification makes sense but the question of what to do first has to be resolved – Before starting in Leeds - finish off in Manchester with the Piccadilly 15 and 16 rebuild and extend the wires to Stalybridge as an add on to the existing Lancashire triangle work thereby having only one lengthy period of disruption in the centre of Manchester as opposed to repeating the death by a thousand bus replacement services experience we have seen during the WCML rebuilding. Although this might seem common sense there is nothing common about common sense in the DfT – (behold the IEP project).

5: The Busway cometh – will this be the first one built on time to budget and as it lacks an in-town segregated section will it really be able to deliver significant journey time reductions? You might think that - I could not possibly comment.

6: Having got the Ashton and Oldham Metrolink Extensions well underway – will TfGM planners finally turn to extending Metrolink into Stockport and South Manchester by taking over existing routes to Marple and New Mills – using existing railways (or old track beds) as a base at a fraction of the cost of building new street running lines? Will the realisation dawn that four car sets are a better solution to overcrowding than coupled two car sets?

7: The heavy rail relief provided by recent stock transfers will be swallowed up and overcrowding levels, denial of boarding etc., will be an issue by next Christmas. And the DfT, Northern’s puppet-masters, still won’t have cottoned on to the fact that Sundays are a peak day for Christmas Shoppers from November through to the end of December.

Nathan Dawz · December 23rd, 2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecityofgold

HS2 at Pomona would be a dream scenario for 2012.

Why?

The purpose of HS2 is to connect city centres / airports to each other in as fast a time as possible (and increase capacity in the process).

For this to work Manchester's main station has to be at either Piccadilly or Victoria since both of these are already firmly plugged in to the centre of the local metrolink and rail networks.

Pomona, in public transport terms, is the middle of nowhere. No National rail links, very poor bus links and only connected to the Eccles line for metrolink services.

Some people want the HS station to be in Pomona so we get some fancy buildings and redevelopment - but that is completely missing the point of an integrated transport network. Frankly, if it's anywhere other than Piccadilly or Victoria (and even Victoria isn't ideal) then I'd judge it as a complete missed opportunity.

Seasonedbest · December 23rd, 2011, 10:30 PM

Who wants it connected to the Eccles line? Come on, no one in their right mind wants that. This needs to be connected to Picc.

Nathan Dawz · December 23rd, 2011, 10:35 PM

Precisely. Pomona's a non-starter.

jrb · December 23rd, 2011, 11:27 PM

We may finally find out what the plans for the collar site(Super Casino site) and the Etihad Campus are.

Details of Airport City will be made public.

More details of the remaining Noma proposal will be released, including Fish Dock.

MIPIM will be another anti-climax.

The design for the new arts centre at First Street will be revealed.

Mediacity will continue growing.

Got a feeling there will be more hotels and office blocks starting/going up than we think. Lots of leases are up next year and there will be demand for new grade A office space. Once again Manchester will lead the way in office take up outside London.

Manchester will domnate the PL.

December 23rd, 2011, 01:21 PM	#36
Mwmbwls Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 522 Likes (Received): 16	Bah - humbug! Predictions for twenty twelve. 1: The IPPR North report on the apparent inequality of investment in transport links in the English regions will be filed in the tray marked “long grass” http://www.ippr.org/images/media/fil...1%201_8411.pdf 2: The Competition Commission report on the bus industry will be filed likewise http://www.competition-commission.or...tions_1_15.pdf Which is a pity - because this is a seriously flawed document that needs to be exposed to public scrutiny. For nearly thirty years bus users in this country have been used as lab rats in an experiment in privatisation. In London a control group of bus users has not been exposed to the transition to oligopoly experienced by those outside of London, as excellently detailed in the Competition committee report. If you live in the regions and feel like a first class taxpayer and a second class traveller - it’s because you are. As with banking and housing concepts of self-correcting markets driven by the “hidden hand” of competition have proved as illusory as the idea of a “hidden hand”. The Competition Commission ruled out looking at the causes of this situation and focussed on the symptoms. They have not grasped the way that the larger bus operators now can play the system and that radical restructuring is required. After all the London system does demonstrably work. “We decided not to recommend the introduction of franchising either instead of or alongside our other measures. We concluded that, compared with the possible introduction of franchising, our remedy package directly addresses the AECs, is at least as effective in addressing the associated customer detriment and is less costly and therefore provides a more proportionate solution. However, we recognize that there is existing legislation enabling LTAs to introduce franchising in England, Scotland and Wales and we would not wish to rule out its future application in particular local markets where the respective legislative requirements are met. We also note that LTAs have wider social and policy objectives that are not relevant to this investigation, but which may legitimately lead them to take a different view on the desirability of introducing franchising in relation to the local bus markets for which they are accountable”. They conclude their report with a cynical "Ho Ho Ho" IIRC. 3: There will be a series of rows as the extent of the TPE (and its possible successors) land grab for train paths over the Ordsall-Victoria-Oxford Road-Piccadilly link is appreciated. Expect purple clouds of rage from Northern Welsh, West Lancashire, Calder and Rossendale Valley passengers as they find themselves exiled to Victoria. 4: Will common sense prevail? Progressing the Trans-Pennine electrification makes sense but the question of what to do first has to be resolved – Before starting in Leeds - finish off in Manchester with the Piccadilly 15 and 16 rebuild and extend the wires to Stalybridge as an add on to the existing Lancashire triangle work thereby having only one lengthy period of disruption in the centre of Manchester as opposed to repeating the death by a thousand bus replacement services experience we have seen during the WCML rebuilding. Although this might seem common sense there is nothing common about common sense in the DfT – (behold the IEP project). 5: The Busway cometh – will this be the first one built on time to budget and as it lacks an in-town segregated section will it really be able to deliver significant journey time reductions? You might think that - I could not possibly comment. 6: Having got the Ashton and Oldham Metrolink Extensions well underway – will TfGM planners finally turn to extending Metrolink into Stockport and South Manchester by taking over existing routes to Marple and New Mills – using existing railways (or old track beds) as a base at a fraction of the cost of building new street running lines? Will the realisation dawn that four car sets are a better solution to overcrowding than coupled two car sets? 7: The heavy rail relief provided by recent stock transfers will be swallowed up and overcrowding levels, denial of boarding etc., will be an issue by next Christmas. And the DfT, Northern’s puppet-masters, still won’t have cottoned on to the fact that Sundays are a peak day for Christmas Shoppers from November through to the end of December. Last edited by Mwmbwls; December 23rd, 2011 at 01:27 PM.

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December 22nd, 2011, 09:50 PM	#22
Seasonedbest BANNED Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Manchester Posts: 2,371 Likes (Received): 5	Its looking bleak for 2012 in terms of building construction.

December 22nd, 2011, 10:15 PM	#25
tomegranate Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 664 Likes (Received): 14	Allow me: http://g.co/maps/wuerv

December 22nd, 2011, 10:30 PM	#28
WatcherZero Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 15,608	Leeds and Bristol have a five year supply of empty Grade A office space, Manchester supply is down to two years so more office projects will be restarted in anticipation that they will take longer than two years to build (course I said the same thing last year and all that begun was CO-OP).

December 22nd, 2011, 10:31 PM	#29
thecityofgold Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,343 Likes (Received): 10	HS2 at Pomona would be a dream scenario for 2012. If it happened it would certainly be accompanied by significant development around the new station and would bring forward the inevitable Manchester / SQ conglomeration.

December 23rd, 2011, 03:20 AM	#32
andysimo123 wind-up merchant Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,877 Likes (Received): 8	More than certain.... - Origin will stay a concrete hole. - Travel Lodge will build two more mash potato style hotels in the City. - Chethams, Metropolitan University Business School and One Commercial street will all finally be completed. - Axis will stay a TV Screen and nothing more. - Elisabeth House will be gone by April. - Nuovo will stay a messed up building site. - We'll all look at the Premier Inn on Dale Street thinking 'modular construction, 1970s, this looks cheap' - The Indigo Hotel by Co-op will start construction and be one of the best quality buildings built between 2012-2014. - Gateway house will be redeveloped - Plans for the old BBC site will be shown off but nothing will happen on the ground. - ITV Trafford will shoot ahead with construction work. - More plans for the site of the intercontinental hotel will be shown off. - The old ITV studios plans will stay under wraps until its sold off in 2013. - The new Etap hotel will shoot up. - Old Trafford Cricket Ground work will carry on, the Tesco next door will see ground work start. - Nothing will happen at Jackson's Wharf. - Co-op will show plans for the next stage of their masterplan. Might happen.... - Ground work starts on the Exchange Quay Towers - Another student development is proposed in the Southern City Centre. - Elisabeth house replacement starts work during the summer. - FC United and Swinton will see work start on both their stadiums. - Belle Vue speed way track will start construction. - Barton Square will see construction work start with a new roof and second floor added. + Possible expansion of the main building with larger stores being added on. - Sale Sharks will make the mistake of moving into the Salford City Reds stadium. - A changed and smaller Derwent Street will break into construction after ground work. - Work on Brazennose House will start. - The old Peterloo House will be knocked down. - Those Salford student flats will see construction start. Unlikely but possible.... - Odeon is demolished. - The old Employment Exchange will finally see its last days demolished before works starts on a new hotel. - Peel will announce plans for the expansion of media city. - Spinningfields could see movement on a taller development but its much shorter than we all hoped. - Oddfellows house is demolished. - Work on the Embankment offices at Greengate could start. Seems enough to look at without any transport predictions.

December 23rd, 2011, 11:22 AM	#34
iheartthenew Does anybody read this? Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Salford - Greater Manchester Posts: 2,627 Likes (Received): 127	It's the derelict building on Aytoun St - behind the Malmaison Hotel

December 23rd, 2011, 10:30 PM	#38
Seasonedbest BANNED Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Manchester Posts: 2,371 Likes (Received): 5	Who wants it connected to the Eccles line? Come on, no one in their right mind wants that. This needs to be connected to Picc.

December 23rd, 2011, 10:35 PM	#39
Nathan Dawz Makin all KINDS of gains! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Manchester / London Posts: 2,708 Likes (Received): 160	Precisely. Pomona's a non-starter.

December 23rd, 2011, 11:27 PM	#40
jrb 10th February 2008 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 26,320 Likes (Received): 250	We may finally find out what the plans for the collar site(Super Casino site) and the Etihad Campus are. Details of Airport City will be made public. More details of the remaining Noma proposal will be released, including Fish Dock. MIPIM will be another anti-climax. The design for the new arts centre at First Street will be revealed. Mediacity will continue growing. Got a feeling there will be more hotels and office blocks starting/going up than we think. Lots of leases are up next year and there will be demand for new grade A office space. Once again Manchester will lead the way in office take up outside London. Manchester will domnate the PL.