FANTASY | Regeneration in the extreme!

[Pablo Diablo]

Following on from my post in the Football Quarter thread and my ramblings in various threads about regeneration, I had a little play with Google Earth and Photoshop and put together a totally fantastical, pie-in-the-sky, money-no-object highly controversial extreme regeneration plan. This would change the city's entire structure in the same extreme as Haussmann did for Paris and Cerdà did for Barcelona.

I'd love to get some opinions and some constructive criticism


Remember, PURE FANTASY! ...

(Links because images are fairly big.)

City Centre
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6041/falapaadk.jpg

North End - Vauxhall/Scotland Road area and Everton.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1614/galalaadk.jpg

South End - Toxteth, Dingle, Smithdown area
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4986/galamaadk.jpg

Far North End - Bootle, Anfield, Walton
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9351/galaoaadk.jpg

West End - Birkenhead, Seacombe
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5340/galapaadk.jpg

Eastern Suburbs - Croxteth, Norris Green, Stockbridge
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2379/halabaadk.jpg
This is the only suburban area I've looked at and that's only because I grew up in the Muirhead Ave area.
I'd love to see Muirhead Ave and Utting Ave lined with the types of homes you see on Mather Ave and the south end of Queens Drive along with the shops, bars and restaurants you get on Allerton Road and Rose Lane.


There's a few things that's common to all of these plans...

Major roads like Scotland Road, Hunter St/Islington/West Derby Road, Kensington, Smithdown, Everton Road, Breck Road, Leeds St etc would all be widened during redevelopments - not to increase road space but to install central grass tracks for trams and wide pavements - turning them into boulevards.

There'd be an emphasis on liveability. Pedestrian-friendly boulevards not dual carriageways. Extensive clean and green public transport like trams and expanded Merseyrail. An ample supply of public spaces like new parks, gardens, squares. There'd be general improvements to the public realm. As much 'street furniture' will be removed as possible - i.e., railings, unnecessary signs/road markings. New traffic signals would be slimmed down and compact, like you'd see in Spanish/French cities. Pavements would be relayed with higher quality material and more zebra crossings installed. Streets would be human-focused rather than car-focused.

The mid-rise mixed use buildings I refer to would be 4/5 storey (6/7 storey on major avenues) containing spacious family apartments with 3/4/5 bedrooms with en suites. One apartment could take up an entire floor. The larger buildings would have ground level retail (the smaller buildings could have the opportunity for this too). Each block would have a private garden built above a secure car park.

Townhouses would be varying in style depending on the area but all similar in size to the Georgian townhouses in Canning or the large Victorian terraces in parts of Anfield and Tuebrook.

I would aim to increase the city's population by 300,000-500,000 by attracting migrants from within the UK and across Europe. In addition to attracting investment and entrepreneurial migrants from China, Brazil and India.

I'd grow the local economy by offering very very cheap office and industrial space to new business and migrating business. I'd set up a new Liverpool Entrepreneurs School and a Bank of Liverpool to give support to business start ups. I'd even offer apartments with very low rent (or even free) to people who wish to move to the city to start a business that will employ locals. I'd push a mass education programme for city residents, offering very cheap (or free) courses in business studies or practical skills. I'd make maths, science and languages (particularly Spanish and Mandarin - I'd aim to have every child leave school at 16/18 speaking fluent Spanish) the core of the school curriculum. Schooling would be streamed into an 'academic' stream and a 'vocational' stream, depending on a child's abilities and interests. "Work hard, play hard" would be drilled in as a culture to give kids the drive to succeed and the rewards for it. The mass home building programme will ensure every newly employed or entrepreneur school leaver can afford a good quality home at an affordable price. I'd promote the city around Europe and the world as a 'party capital' like Amsterdam or Prague. This will create a very positive image amongst young people and encourage them to visit (where they will then fall in love with the city and want to move here!). I'd enhance this with liberalisations like legalising Dutch-style coffeeshops and Hamburg-style brothels/sex clubs (It'll always happen, why not make it safe, legal and taxable?).


So, Pablo for mayor?


/PURE FANTASY!

[design_man]

I like it.

The problem with St John's Market is that its successful, so it's hard to imagine how and when it will be affordable to replace it. If it was bankrupt and empty it could be swept away, but sadly people seem to like it. There would need to be a mass boycott by the entire city for months for it to become so unviable that it could be demolished and replaced with something nicer. Maybe Liverpool needs a sort of architectural / aesthetic "Arab Spring"?

[Pablo Diablo]

Well my plan does have a shopping centre constructed opposite JMU on Byrom Street to replace St Johns and to help expand the city centre northwards and pull people towards a redeveloped Scotland Road.

Another idea could be for an outdoor market on the square (St John's Square? St George's Square?) that would replace St Johns.

More comments/ideas/criticisms would be much appreciated. It'd be good if this thread became a 'community effort'

[Skewed]

I would very much like to replace St Johns, Clayton Square, Upper Lime st and the Skelhorne Triangle, as well as redevelop the former Blacklers store site more effectively. Here is a visual i've been hiding from some ideas I had over the summer.....


image hosted on flickr



Pablo, the ideas below are interesting...I too would like to see bold thinking like that and the North and east of the city really need some attention - these areas effectively need to be re-attached and St Johns is a big wall in the way of that.

[ranny fash]

Ambition! I've always wanted to collect my ideas for a similar plan for Nottingham so it's good to see this!

Sounds like you'd want to 'europeanise' Liverpool. I'd do the same thing to Notts. Good plan man. All of it.

[Pablo Diablo]

Originally Posted by Skewed

I would very much like to replace St Johns, Clayton Square, Upper Lime st and the Skelhorne Triangle, as well as redevelop the former Blacklers store site more effectively. Here is a visual i've been hiding from some ideas I had over the summer.....


Pablo, the ideas below are interesting...I too would like to see bold thinking like that and the North and east of the city really need some attention - these areas effectively need to be re-attached and St Johns is a big wall in the way of that.

That design is fantastic!! If you have time/the desire, could you do a design looking up a redeveloped Scotland Road from Haymarket? I'd love to get an idea of how this could look

One thing about your idea though is that I really do have my heart set on a giant public square, like Plaça de Catalunya in Barcelona or Alexanderplatz in Berlin, and I think the St Johns site is the best location. What would you think about your 'Liverpool 2' forming around the square, engulfing Clayton Square and parts of redeveloped Williamson Square (getting rid of those sheds with the LFC store, New Look etc) and Queen Square?

[Pablo Diablo]

Originally Posted by ranny fash

Ambition! I've always wanted to collect my ideas for a similar plan for Nottingham so it's good to see this!

Sounds like you'd want to 'europeanise' Liverpool. I'd do the same thing to Notts. Good plan man. All of it.

I used to live in Nottingham so I would be very interested in seeing your ideas! How about starting a thread for it in the East Midlands forum?


My ideas are formed after visiting many major European cities. Barcelona, Berlin and Paris have had the greatest influence (with some Prague and Dublin in there too). So yeah I guess you could say I want to 'Europeanise' Liverpool

[Skewed]

Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo

That design is fantastic!! If you have time/the desire, could you do a design looking up a redeveloped Scotland Road from Haymarket? I'd love to get an idea of how this could look

One thing about your idea though is that I really do have my heart set on a giant public square, like Plaça de Catalunya in Barcelona or Alexanderplatz in Berlin, and I think the St Johns site is the best location. What would you think about your 'Liverpool 2' forming around the square, engulfing Clayton Square and parts of redeveloped Williamson Square (getting rid of those sheds with the LFC store, New Look etc) and Queen Square?

I don't agree with the square. There is plenty of open space in that part of the city and an open square would just become a windswept space for the wrong sorts to hang out on the evening....this has happened to Piccadilly in Manchester. We should be upscaling this area and creating a buzz and busy focal point that can provide an intersection between different ends of the city centre, as well as bringing lime st station (the city's front door) more into the fold.

Central village will help put pressure on the need to develop the Lime st area of the city however, we have Clayton square, St Johns and the former Blacklers store block all representing what is essentially bad design and planning and are the remaining examples of previous notions of insular "shopping mall" architecture that Liverpool 1 is a move away from.

I think in order to encourage a busy St George's plateau and perhaps a re-invigorated London road then St Johns needs to go and the site needs to be reconfigured. Do this and there could then be some real impetus to develop the many sites around it.

I'm not totally against your proposal to create a square it's just by instead creating new routes through the site and reintroducing old ones aligned with new an higher density architecture there is a stronger commercial case. You can't make a profit out of an empty square afterall and the owners of St Johns and Clayton Square - Land Securities - would never go for that. The currently make a lot of money at St Johns but are quite prepared to update it. Perhaps a fire or some kind of accident will prompt them? or, quite simply a drop in footfall will make them push redevelopment along again although, now that everyone is skint I should imagine the 'pound shop city' that is emerging around there will continue to flourish.

If you want to see more stuff, click the Flickr link below. I might polish up some of the older designs and post them on here ;

[Pablo Diablo]

Your argument makes sense

There's no reason why a square would have to end up like Piccadilly though (I walk through Picc every day so I know how bleak and windswept it can get... but on warm and dry days it does attract a lot of 'good' people). I just think that a large civic square gives off a big city vibe and forms a good 'kilometre zero' point. Plaça Catalunya. Maybe it doesn't have to be as 'grand' as PC or take up the entirety of the St Johns site though.

[Skewed]

Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo

Your argument makes sense

There's no reason why a square would have to end up like Piccadilly though (I walk through Picc every day so I know how bleak and windswept it can get... but on warm and dry days it does attract a lot of 'good' people). I just think that a large civic square gives off a big city vibe and forms a good 'kilometre zero' point. Plaça Catalunya. Maybe it doesn't have to be as 'grand' as PC or take up the entirety of the St Johns site though.

We maybe a complete overhaul of the Lime St/St Georges plateau space could provide the sort of space your looking for. This would kill two birds with one stone bringing an incredible space into more use and providing the european inspired space you speak of?

I've always thought it might be a good idea to redesign the inside of Lime St station in the same fashion as London St Pancras, over two levels and take the ground floor arched windows of the Former Great Northwestern Hotel building and converting them to an entrance to the station. Therefore the entire facade of the station would allow travellers to spill out into such a new space at St Georges plateau upon arrival with new, re-aligned and managed road traffic flow that encourages more pedestrian activity - and a better setting for the Empire theatre.

[Pablo Diablo]

Ahhh interesting idea about St George's Plateau.
If we remove the car park, pedestrianise William Brown Street and open up a new entrance to St John's Gardens we could have quite a pretty square (well an 'L' ).
This could lead on to a more human-friendly Haymarket which would be the connecting piece with Scotland Road!


Team work

[Paul D]

I for the life of me just don't see the point of fantasy development threads? It's hard enough getting people on here discussing reality projects.

[Pablo Diablo]

Originally Posted by Paul D

I for the life of me just don't see the point of fantasy development threads? It's hard enough getting people on here discussing reality projects.

This reason this forum is dying is because of the amount of muppets who try to blame anything bad on 'big bad London and its evil minion Manchester'


And you seriously can't see the point of fantasy? Should I have just kept this to myself then? Sorry, I'll just keep my creative gob shut and go back to the Manc forums where (apart from one particular Captain Killjoy) people tend to be more positive and interested in radical ideas.

[Skewed]

Originally Posted by Paul D

I for the life of me just don't see the point of fantasy development threads? It's hard enough getting people on here discussing reality projects.

Well given there are so few 'reality' projects these days a little bit of creative discussion should pad out the forum a little

[Paul D]

There's plenty too talk about if you take a look around the forum,there's well over £4bn worth of projects too talk about there,without Mersey Waters,leave the fantasy projects to Acurra.

2012 Projects

ON SITE

Apex Building
University central laboratory building
LU Eco-Halls
JMU Clarence Street
Travelodge, Strand
Travelodge, Exchange St East
Ibis, Dale St
Tunnel Rd HMRI
Granby St HMRI
Baltic Creative warehouse conversions
Edge/Hall Lane Strategic Gateway
Kensington Fields HMRI
Central Village-MSCP
Central Village-Lewis’s
Central Station
Mann Island
Church Fields HMRI
Cressington Grange
Anfield/Breckfield HMRI
Garden Festival site
57-59 Seel St, bar & restaurant
Central Library
Retirement flats – Aigburth Road
Everyman Theatre
Florence Institute
Premier Inn, Hanover St
Allerton Monastery
Catherine St/Myrtle St student flats/restaurant/bar
M & S extension/separate unit Williamson Sq.
Plus Dane Housing/Park Rd.

AWAITING ON SITE/PROGRESS

£200m/500 home Stonebridge Cross scheme - appication early 2012, on site summer 2012
£130m/2,000 homes plan across the city -on site Spring 2012
Barratt/Peel 268 unit housing project, Speke – on site early 2012
£20m St Michaels Student Accommodation, Ropewalks (Iliad)
St Andrews Church Student Accommodation, Rodney Street
Hatton Gardens student accommodation/retail
Humyak House student accommodation, Duke St
New Brunswick Village, Grafton St
Stanley Dock Tobacco Warehouse development
Eldonians power generator project
Edge Lane – Replacement park – early 2012
Edge Lane – Main retail – late 2012
Edge Lane – Mental Health facility, Ian Skelly site – early 2012
Edge Lane - Kensington Health Centre – January 2012
Sleeperz Hotel_Line St Station. - early 2012.
Peel International Trade Centre
Extension of Baltic Creative warehouse conversions
Liverpool Waters decision
Forever 21, Church St on site
Jessica Funding becoming available
EU decision re: £450m Merseyside funding between 2014-2020
Neptune Developments £65m hotel/apartments, Strand
Beetham Plaza 73,000 sq.ft. office development
Decision re: Green Bank
Decision re: Elected Mayor
January decision re: £12.98m kick-start funding for local infrastructure projects, as nominated by the LEP
Decision and hopefully a planning application re: LFC stadium plans
Planning application for £40m convention centre extension/hotel
Toxteth fire station/sports centre – on site early 2012
Project Jennifer – Public inquiry decision summer 2012
Notre Dame school development adjacent to Project Jennifer – on site 2012
Archbishop Beck Catholic High School relocated to Long Lane with an option of co-locating with a special school. Start date: Autumn 2012
£30m Benmore scheme, hotel, cinema etc – decision January 2012
iC3
Tune Hotel, Parker Street
Queens Dock twin tower project
Fire Stations in Kirkdale, Formby, Newton-le-Willows, Bootle, Netherton,, Belle Vale, Birkenhead, Southport.
New Islington Project
Urban Splash Social Housing Element – Great George Square
Liverpool University 1,000 bed residential campus
JMU Post Office site
Flatiron building
Exchange Flags public realm
Liverpool One site 22
Pall Mall office scheme
Pall Mall (Exchange Square)
Parliament St/Sefton St tower
Kings Dock Mill phase 2
Kings Dock Exhibition Centre extension
St Johns Square refurb
Maghull sites around Hope St.
Z-Hotel (North John St. Long lease agreed. Planning application submitted)
Evolution, 50-54 Stanley St (Finance secured, planning applic. submitted)
JMU office building, Old Haymarket
£200m Chinatown scheme
Duke St Hotel/MSCP
Slavery Museum extension
Royal Court Theatre
RIBA regional HQ
New Royal Hospital (planning application)
Scandanavian Hotel
Alder Hey Children's Hospital.

[Portobello Red]

Some of these 'Fantasy Projects' look like Croydon.

[Skewed]

Point taken, but again...despite your list I think discussing ideas about how the city could look has always been a good thing. Not all (probably only a fraction) of the developments on that list are as imaginative and interesting as they could be.

As far as Croydon goes, never been so can't comment. Any ideas I put on here are quick projects to illustrate a point. No budget or brief, just ideas

In terms of criticism, I'm thick skinned and indeed welcome it.....this is a discussion forum after all.

[yoshef]

Originally Posted by Paul D

I for the life of me just don't see the point of fantasy development threads? It's hard enough getting people on here discussing reality projects.

No harm in it to be fair, a good thread to bounce ideas of one another, until John Burns returns.

[Awayo]

I suppose that on an urbanism site we could expect a threat like this. Mostly fairly boring and irrelevant as it is. I haven't ever played Sim City and by now I expect that I won't.

The anger and confusion about anyone raising issues about what is actually possible in Liverpool, why we are where we are and what prevents us being where we could be, is of course reason enough to doubt the motives of the person who created this thread. Troll or idiot, they always read the same.

Still now the thread is here, despite its base roots, maybe people with something interesting to say can contribute worthwhile things to it.

Dunno.

[CaptainJason]

How about now that the money for the demolition of vast areas of terraced housing stock has been pulled, they instead sell them off for cheaps? Not to private landlords but to people struggling to get on the housing ladder. Stipulate that in the sale they have to live in the property for a minimum of 5 years before they can sell them, also 1 property per person? Some fantastic houses out there just being left to rot?

Also if were talking fantasy, rebuild the Overhead Railway and sink the Strand into a tunnel