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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:30 AM   #101
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I like Harbin Metro's classical interiors but it's crazy that the maps lack English names. Foreign visitors will be lost.
Just how is it crazy? It is for locals. And as for foreign visitors, they probably need Russian names, not English.

Anyway, since it is in Manchuria after all, it should rather be respectful to include the Manchu names on the maps.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 10:30 AM   #102
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Harbin is Mongolian name. Harba is the river crossing on Soongary.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 01:36 PM   #103
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Just how is it crazy?
Because English is the lingua franca for people travelling abroad.


I don't assume people everywhere else in the world will speak/write in Dutch, and I can't learn every other language in the world, so a lingua franca, like English, makes sense.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 01:55 PM   #104
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Yesterday I read Wikipedia and I informed that Harbin Metro is open now. That's good. I like a lot the stations, very clean and modern.

Thank you for the photos.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 07:47 PM   #105
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Quote:
Just how is it crazy? It is for locals. And as for foreign visitors, they probably need Russian names, not English.
Harbin is a major city and major cities can expect a lot of foreigner visitors. They may be tourists, students, businesspeople, diplomats, or athletes. English is the de facto international language and certainly the language of international travel. Every other Chinese metro has English subtitles.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 01:22 AM   #106
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Guys, you mix up two things: what most of you probably mean is not english on the maps but latin transliteration* to let people - who dont speak/read chinese - pronounce the names.

English? What for? It would be just translation of the road names, but for what reason? If you want to ask locals about direction, the translation wont do! What you really need as a tourist/visitor/whatever is just to say more or less correct the names in the language of the country.

*There is not such thing on earth like "english alphabet", it's latin!
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Old October 4th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I like Harbin Metro's classical interiors.
Looks like HK MTR style stations with classical Russian motifs. I would've thought that if any city in China would have adopted Soviet palatial style metro, it would have been Harbin. But instead, they still use HK style stations with Russian undertones.

Just kind of mind boggling how there was a time in China's history where all civic architecture and infrastructure were modeled after Soviet/Russian designs. Compare that to recent times where nearly everything is modeled after Hong Kong designs.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 02:29 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Nice station design, a little more pillars than my liking though.
How do reduce the number of pillars?
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Old October 10th, 2013, 02:40 AM   #109
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How do reduce the number of pillars?
Make the rest of the structure stronger.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 07:05 PM   #110
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The Latin letters on the Metro maps are a stripped down pinyin, a system introduced by the PRC in the 1950s to help improve literacy rates and have a standardised pronunciation method, given that Chinese doesn't have an alphabet. In the Harbin Metro example, the tone marks have been omitted, as they usually are when used in such ways (e.g. street signs, names, et cetera).

Personally, I think it's odd that they haven't translated some of the station names, as they do on the Beijing Subway if there is a clear English equivalent. To follow the Beijing example, this is what the Harbin English station names would look like:
Hadongzhan = Harbin East Railway Station
Huashujie = Huashu Jie/St
Jiaotongxueyuan = Communications University
Taipingqiao = Taiping Qiao/Bridge
Gongchengdaxue = Engineering University
Yanchang = Tobacco Factory
Yidayiyuan = Medical University No. 1 Hospital
Bowuguan = Museum
Tieluju = Railway Bureau
Hagongda = Harbin Institute of Technology
Xidaqiao = Xida Qiao/Bridge
Hexinglu = Hexing Lu/Rd
Xuefulu = Xuefu Lu/Rd
Ligongdaxue = Harbin University of Science and Technology
Heilongjiangdaxue = Heilongjiang University
Yidaeryuan = Medical University No. 2 Hospital
Hada = Hada
Hananzhan = Harbin South Railway Station
I am lead to believe that despite Russians standing out more, the largest group of foreigners here in Harbin is actually South Koreans. However, I don't think we'll be seeing any Harbin Metro maps with Hangul on them in the near future.

I think that there are competing demands for the system to be as easy to use for foreign visitors who will probably be able to speak at least basic English(although it doesn't go anywhere near the main attractions of the Ice and Snow Festival yet) and for staff at the stations trying to guide them who probably can't speak a high level of English, if any. Personally I like the idea of some systems (pretty sure Tokyo has this) where each station has an alphanumeric code (e.g. A1, C5, et cetera) which can help avoid confusion.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #111
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Russian can understand china!! thanks!! From KHABAROVSK - CAPITAL of FAR EAST OR RUSSIA!

wang shang hao!
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Old October 19th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
Guys, you mix up two things: what most of you probably mean is not english on the maps but latin transliteration* to let people - who dont speak/read chinese - pronounce the names.

English? What for? It would be just translation of the road names, but for what reason? If you want to ask locals about direction, the translation wont do! What you really need as a tourist/visitor/whatever is just to say more or less correct the names in the language of the country.

*There is not such thing on earth like "english alphabet", it's latin!
Totally agreed with this post , the use of pinyin is common in China including metros but pinyin is not English and is often incomprehensible for native speakers of English eg they can't decipher the meaning from the words given.

Most places along a metro route don't have English names those being the names of districts or roads etc. With literal trnaslations of Chinese names you often end up with Chinglish instead of English.

As for the last point , English uses the Latin or Roman alphabet and has done so for over a thousand years or so . As a consequence Chinese characters are or their pronounciation are romanized for the ease of learning.

It's a common mis conception among native speakers that our alphabet and numerical system both originate from England . As latin was the lingua franca in Europe in times past we simply adopted their alphabet which replaced the Runic alphabet of ancient times.

Back on topic... Not everyone, everyplace or everything has an English name in China lingua franca or not so make an effort to remember the pinyin or you're having trouble with the characters.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Harbin is a major city and major cities can expect a lot of foreigner visitors. They may be tourists, students, businesspeople, diplomats, or athletes. English is the de facto international language and certainly the language of international travel. Every other Chinese metro has English subtitles.
Diplomats, businessmen and athletes using a metro??? Maybe if they were flat broke.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 04:24 PM   #114
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Harbin isn't likely to be a hotspot for diplomats and CEO level people wouldn't use metro, but all other categories of foreigners would if it's safe and convenient. They do so in London and New York...

Translations for at least few major stations would be helpful. It won't do for asking locals, but it will be easier to follow the map or a guidebook. Absent that Pinyin will do, because it's at least possible to read and memorise it for those who have never studied Chinese. I doubt I could pronounce in anything resembling the correct pronunciation, though.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 04:39 PM   #115
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Have they already started building any of the other metro lines, or an extension of line 1?
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Old October 19th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Have they already started building any of the other metro lines, or an extension of line 1?
They've been building the section from Line 1 to Harbin West Railway Station for a while now, which hopefully they'll open as soon as they reach Harbin West. As lovely as Harbin West Station is, it's location is a real problem so having a subway link would make it much more convenient.

The subway station for Harbin West is already done (Harbin West is a new station opened last year, they built the subway station in the basement) so they just have to get the tunnel to it.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 11:48 PM   #117
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It seems I haven't trolled this thread yet .

I agree with that some station names could be translated into English. But I like the translliterations, they sound like, erm, Chinese .
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Old October 19th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #118
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I might like a thread on signage, maps and the like in public transport, maybe I'll start one.

I agree to the above, Pinyin ≠ English. A page on pinyin street signs styles I generally agree with. That said, I see the value of having station names indicating the railway station, airport, and the like. It could be done with symbols though.

For Harbin style vs Beijing style Pinyin/English names, there are good arguments for the Beijing approach too, but it is hard to be consistent. The Beijing names are not.

But I would call the alphabet used in China the English alphabet rather than the Latin. Example would be that the exits used in the Beijing metro are named A, B, C, D... and pronounced Aye, Bee, Sea, Dee...
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Old October 20th, 2013, 08:15 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanpodge View Post

Personally, I think it's odd that they haven't translated some of the station names, as they do on the Beijing Subway if there is a clear English equivalent. To follow the Beijing example, this is what the Harbin English station names would look like:
Hadongzhan = Harbin East Railway Station
Huashujie = Huashu Jie/St
Jiaotongxueyuan = Communications University
Taipingqiao = Taiping Qiao/Bridge
Gongchengdaxue = Engineering University
Yanchang = Tobacco Factory
Yidayiyuan = Medical University No. 1 Hospital
Bowuguan = Museum
Tieluju = Railway Bureau
Hagongda = Harbin Institute of Technology
Xidaqiao = Xida Qiao/Bridge
Hexinglu = Hexing Lu/Rd
Xuefulu = Xuefu Lu/Rd
Ligongdaxue = Harbin University of Science and Technology
Heilongjiangdaxue = Heilongjiang University
Yidaeryuan = Medical University No. 2 Hospital
Hada = Hada
Hananzhan = Harbin South Railway Station
In Beijing it's nearly the same. You should quote Shanghai more.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 09:39 AM   #120
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Maybe using google maps or another GPS maps app would be the go, For navigation purposes it makes sense.
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