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Old June 1st, 2012, 11:07 AM   #21
Syndic
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American here. I have a lot of problems with these developments. You are making a lot of mistakes America made and I'm finding it hard to bite my tongue. Let me explain:

Indoor shopping malls are a dying model all across America. We built so many of them, but they're kind of seen as a symbol of suburbia, excess, and hyper-consumerism now. Many regard their being built as a huge mistake and we're trying to figure out ways to "retrofit" or "re-purpose" them into office space, schools, housing, etc.

To be fair, our malls are usually suburban whereas this looks more urban. But still I wonder how this mall will appear to many folks 15-20 years from now, after the initial excitement has worn off. Will it still be getting a lot of use? Or will it be largely vacant and empty?

I know Americans aren't seen as being paragons of urban planning knowledge, but we have learned a lot of lessons from our many mistakes. What we have learned is that small blocks are better than big blocks, mixed-use is better than single-use, outdoor shopping is better than indoor shopping, many small building owners is better than one large building owner.

Also, these buildings in this rendering troubled me:



The towers are all identical (yuck) and they seem to be all one building (yuck) and they're not aligned to a street grid (yuck). What you need is to have roads in-between all of those towers, where pedestrians can walk and shop, and more variety in the design of the towers.

So, anyway, I just felt I needed to express my opinion. Don't be afraid to criticize developments and demand better. These structures will be a part of your city for the long-term and you want to make sure they're doing it right.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:11 PM   #22
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Hear hear.
We already have the hötorgskraporna, why do they make the same mistake again?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndic View Post
American here. I have a lot of problems with these developments. You are making a lot of mistakes America made and I'm finding it hard to bite my tongue. Let me explain:

Indoor shopping malls are a dying model all across America. We built so many of them, but they're kind of seen as a symbol of suburbia, excess, and hyper-consumerism now. Many regard their being built as a huge mistake and we're trying to figure out ways to "retrofit" or "re-purpose" them into office space, schools, housing, etc.

To be fair, our malls are usually suburban whereas this looks more urban. But still I wonder how this mall will appear to many folks 15-20 years from now, after the initial excitement has worn off. Will it still be getting a lot of use? Or will it be largely vacant and empty?

I know Americans aren't seen as being paragons of urban planning knowledge, but we have learned a lot of lessons from our many mistakes. What we have learned is that small blocks are better than big blocks, mixed-use is better than single-use, outdoor shopping is better than indoor shopping, many small building owners is better than one large building owner.

Also, these buildings in this rendering troubled me:

The towers are all identical (yuck) and they seem to be all one building (yuck) and they're not aligned to a street grid (yuck). What you need is to have roads in-between all of those towers, where pedestrians can walk and shop, and more variety in the design of the towers.

So, anyway, I just felt I needed to express my opinion. Don't be afraid to criticize developments and demand better. These structures will be a part of your city for the long-term and you want to make sure they're doing it right.
There are a few things that count in the favour of this mall. Firstly, it'll be linked to the circular light rail line (Tvärbanan) opening next year which links a lot of important suburbs and thus provides a large catchment area. Secondly, it's on the pendeltåg - a very frequent rail line that is being upgraded and will have capacity at least doubled by 2017. This will provide access to the northern suburbs that want to go shopping (plus being only 10 minutes from the city centre by train too). Next, it'll be a hub for a new residential zone too and has a lot of housing very close by. This will increase its viability.

As for being aligned to the street grid, well, yes, that can be desirable, however, so can pedestrianisation. I am not a huge fan of roads everywhere and given the transport links here, roads aren't necessarily required between all the buildings. I do agree that the design of the towers is boring and that there should be more variety, though.

As for outdoor shopping, well, we have that too. The city centre with its pedestrianised shopping street is particularly popular and that won't change. There is plenty of pedestrian activity around the city. The popularity of indoor malls is still high here due to the more extreme climate. Having a balance of both indoor and outdoor shopping is important in such a climate.

The overarching sentiment of this post is to say, yes, there are mistakes here with the urban planning, but there is certainly not a "one-size fits all" as far as the requirements of "good urban planning" is concerned. Something that works in one city isn't always suitable for another.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 09:15 PM   #24
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The highrises won't be pretty. A shame really, wrecking the appearance of the stadium:

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Old June 8th, 2012, 12:23 AM   #25
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Good Lord, those highrises are a nightmare - they remind me of the City Hochhäuser in Hamburg.

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Old June 10th, 2012, 06:25 AM   #26
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Dogmatic people too much?

Indoor malls have certain retail uses for which they are an optimal solution.

As for "why not make it a narrower and taller" issue, it is a pure matter of logistics and pedestrian traffic. For each application (offices where most people just go up/down few times a day, residences, retail with large traffic) there is proper and improper uses of vertical spaces.

So, ignoring the retrofit nazis for which only downtown shops with minimal façade intervention and only retrofit (but preserved) buildings are acceptable for retail, I think most people just need to calm down.

The development is being build on a quasi-greenfield development. It is not like they are tearing apart 3 blocks in medieval Stockholm and building an enclosed mall!!!

And Europe is full of them for the American apologists... It is not like European costumers don't patronize them, just that they are not in the agenda of the European tourist trips of most forumers.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #27
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I agree that malls in generally aren't good for cities.

We have one in Copenhagen too, called Field's, which really hasn't been a great succes.

BTW funny this is called mall of SCANDINAVIA regarding the fact that Field's in Copenhagen is 48 pct. bigger and is the biggest mall in Scandinavia.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 12:53 AM   #28
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Well, it depends how we compare these malls. For instance, the number of shops will be much larger than in 'Field's' and the overall area is not that different. Moreover, 'Mall of Scandinavia' will be oriented to some more expensive brands.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchmidt View Post
I agree that malls in generally aren't good for cities.

We have one in Copenhagen too, called Field's, which really hasn't been a great succes.

BTW funny this is called mall of SCANDINAVIA regarding the fact that Field's in Copenhagen is 48 pct. bigger and is the biggest mall in Scandinavia.
Well, Field's is in Örestad isn't it? That might explain a bit.

And I've read that this mall will be the biggest in Scandinavia, but they might define "biggest" differently, pressumably with the amount of shops (which essentially is what counts)
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Old July 26th, 2012, 06:46 AM   #30
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according to fields.dk, the mall has about 140 stores and 20 cafes/restaurants. in comparison, Sandvika just outside of Oslo has 190 locations (shopping and food combined). Mall of Scandinavia will be bigger than both.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 09:33 AM   #31
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those highrises ruin it!
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Old July 26th, 2012, 10:27 AM   #32
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Well the number of shops isn't really a good way to measure it. Imagine a market for second-hands, that would indeed often contain more than 300 shops.
Fields has 140 shops or something like that in 148000 sq m. This new center will have 250 shops in 100000 sq m. So the shops really have to be extreme small compared to fields, and I don't find the shops in field's large. I don't think there will be much space for flagship stores.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #33
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You shouldn't include the area of Fields upper floor, there are no shops there. (But there's a go-cart track, gym, playland etc.)
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Old July 28th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchmidt View Post
I agree that malls in generally aren't good for cities.

We have one in Copenhagen too, called Field's, which really hasn't been a great succes.

BTW funny this is called mall of SCANDINAVIA regarding the fact that Field's in Copenhagen is 48 pct. bigger and is the biggest mall in Scandinavia.
I'm sorry but Field's is NOT the biggest mall in Scandinavia! I suppose you're from Denmark so let's prove it by quoting danish wikipedia, shall we?

"Field's er Danmarks største og Skandinaviens næststørste indkøbscenter med 140 butikker fordelt på 115.000 m² under ét tag. […] Skandinaviens største, Nordstan, ligger i Göteborg."

Link: http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field%27s

In other words, Nordstan in Gothenburg is Scandinavia's largest shopping center right now with a total area of 320 000 square meters and 189 shops.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #35
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Finnish Itis (old name Itäkeskus) has quoted themself as the largest shopping mall in Nordics for over 20 years.

They have 114 485m² of renting area for shops, 22 million yearly visitors (though much smaller Kamppi in Helsinki center had over 33 million visitors) and over 300 shops.
They are once again expanding next year for 90 million euros and adding 11 000m² of rented shopping area. This year already building additional 2600m² shopping area underground. These numbers don't include the total floor area.




Anyways Mall of Scandinavia looks way more cohesive and classy, where's Itis is a product of 30 years of expanding in the outskirts of Helsinki. In general these big malls have very little positive on them, but hard to comment more as i don't exactly know the area.
There's clearly customers for these in Finland, but it seems like this country could be finally moving out from mega malls thanks to new legislation.

How these mega malls have been build here in Espoo (or are build at all) for example is beyond stupid and i to this day can't believe the reasoning given to them, but that's another topic.

Last edited by tonttula; July 28th, 2012 at 11:18 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #36
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'Nordstan' is indeed huge, but it is a part of the complex together with a hotel and offices. That is one big mall, for sure.
If talking about the concept of 'Mall of Scandiavia', it is indeed promissing. The mall will not cover a huge area, however it will occupy several floors of the 5 (or so) storey building. The other floors will be dedicated to offices and mixed use. A french company even suggested an idea of building a pool on the top floor.
Judging from the ideas presented, the mall should be something different from the traditional Nordic 'shoe box' concept.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #37
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Some pics from today.





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Old October 5th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #38
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Some fresh visualisations posted in Solna stad webpade:

(c) solna.se


(c) solna.se


Images by Wingårdh Arkitekter. Also, credits to Boscorelli who posted an announcement about the new visualisations at the Stockholm Projekt blog.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 11:10 PM   #39
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Construction pictures from today.










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Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:31 PM   #40
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The project of 'Mall of Scandinavia' was presented at an event in London:



According to the developers of the project, this is the most costly project in Europe the 'Unibail-Rodamco' group is working at the moment with. The approximate investment rate is €600 million euros.

Last edited by dj4life; April 2nd, 2013 at 11:59 PM.
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