Scotland ¦ Independance

[OperateOnMe]

These threads are always deleted, but why not re-do them as they are relevant

The question of Scotland's Independance has come up again. Rather than using the Polls on this forum; here is the Guardian Version http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/i...nce-referendum

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/i...nce-referendum

Personally, I think the referendum is needed earlier so the Salmon-plonker can get real [as a politician would say ]

[london-b]

Oh..this again.

[Caiman]

Salmond is scared the people of Scotland will say no to leaving the UK so instead of just posing a simple question for referendum he needs time to come up with some complex bullshit to confuse the matter further.

[gothicform]

independance? is that like river dance crossed with braveheart?

[wjfox]

http://www.dictionary.reference.com/browse/independence

[alonzo-ny]

This forum was dying for one of these threads!

[jerseyboi]

A legal chap on BBC said that Scottish Parliament can not authorise any independence only the United Kingdom parliament ie Westminster can. Under the "Union" laws.

(Signed by both nations )

If Scotland had referendum and Scottish Parliament organised it - any result would only mean that the Parliament for Scotland would have to put forward any idea or result to Westminster.

In English the Scotland Parliament would need to ask Westminster and its legally binding for any Referendum or independence.
Scotland gave up right to make a decision for independence in the Union treaty.

Means that Westminster would need to organise it.

[Butterfield]

Please tell me this is in the "Bad thread ideas you've had for the Skybar" thread.

[milton]

Originally Posted by Caiman

Salmond is scared the people of Scotland will say no to leaving the UK so instead of just posing a simple question for referendum he needs time to come up with some complex bullshit to confuse the matter further.

I was under the stupid impression that he was fulfilling the mandated policy and timeline that was the SNP's manifesto pledge for which they received a resounding victory.

Lucky you're here to point out otherwise.

In all seriousness, of course Salmond thinks that the longer they take to have the referendum, the better a chance they have of winning it. He thinks, as do many others of us, that the longer the SNP have to present their position, the more votes they will win.

So what exactly is your point?
That he's pragmatic?
That he'd rather give the voters more time to decide on a fairly major choice?

I never cease to be delighted by the fact that certain types seek to paint this timescale that the SNP have decided on as being worthy of derision. What do you mean exactly - that you'd rather there was less time for debating the matter? That it reflects badly on the SNP that they're doing what they think is best for their cause? That they shouldn't do exactly what they promised to do in their manifesto?
There's a dearth of logic in these arguments.

Of course, the usual canard is that Salmond wants more time to "pick fights" with Westminster. The joys of that claim are twofold.
Firstly, such a suggestion intimates that its unionist proponents have very little respect for the electorate, and think that their heads will be turned by playground tactics.
Secondly, as the increasingly desperate squealings from the likes of Cameron, Foulkes, and Forsyth have demonstrated, such an accusation is hypocritical and misguided at best, as the fights are most certainly not being picked by the SNP.

Salmond must currently be giving thanks that Cameron is PM, as this is going better than he ever dared hope.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ish-referendum

[Nightjar]

Originally Posted by Butterfield

Please tell me this is in the "Bad thread ideas you've had for the Skybar" thread.

:sadno:

[Caiman]

So what exactly is your point?

That he doesn't believe that the majority of people in Scotland currently want to leave the UK, evidently.

[milton]

Originally Posted by Caiman

That he doesn't believe that the majority of people in Scotland currently want to leave the UK, evidently.

So he should do something other than what he pledged in his manifesto and received a winning vote for?

[Caiman]

Why not, every other politician does. None of which changes the fact he is not confident that a referendum for Scottish Independence would be a success.

[madjackmcmad]

Ironic the Nats getting their panties in a twist over Cameron offering to make legal a quick straight yes or no in/out referendum something which they've dreamed of for 70 years!

Which imo would be better for everyone so this country knows where it stands and can plan the future.

[pricemazda]

What's he waiting for? The anniversary of the battle of banockburn? Or that other rumour holding it on St Andrew's Day?

Seems to me he doesn't have the balls and looks quite weak for not going to the people now.

After all aren't we all led to believe that independence is shangri-la? The sunlit uplands? Where oil money can be spent 15 times over with ultra low tax rates, massive social spending, amazing infrastructure etc etc. If that's true i'm not sure it's very responsible to wait. If Scotland will be better off out of the Union then why wait? Surely it's the height of irresponsibility to let Scotland rot until then?

[milton]

Originally Posted by madjackmcmad

Ironic the Nats getting their panties in a twist over Cameron offering to make legal a quick straight yes or no in/out referendum something which they've dreamed of for 70 years!

Which imo would be better for everyone so this country knows where it stands and can plan the future.

Originally Posted by pricemazda

What's he waiting for? The anniversary of the battle of banockburn? Or that other rumour holding it on St Andrew's Day?

Seems to me he doesn't have the balls and looks quite weak for not going to the people now.

After all aren't we all led to believe that independence is shangri-la? The sunlit uplands? Where oil money can be spent 15 times over with ultra low tax rates, massive social spending, amazing infrastructure etc etc. If that's true i'm not sure it's very responsible to wait. If Scotland will be better off out of the Union then why wait? Surely it's the height of irresponsibility to let Scotland rot until then?

Brilliant arguments folks. It's debate of this calibre that has Salmond on the run.

[aek-94]

This thread is spelt wrong. It's independence not independance.

[Sweet Zombie Jesus]

Polls generally show more support for increased devolution than all-out independence or the status quo. This option ain't on Big Daves Ultimatum, ergo, he can get to fuck.

[Caiman]

Cherry picking bullshit.

[madjackmcmad]

Originally Posted by Sweet Zombie Jesus

Polls generally show more support for increased devolution than all-out independence or the status quo. This option ain't on Big Daves Ultimatum, ergo, he can get to fuck.

Nor should it be, certainly not without putting this new 'relationship' to every one in the UK to vote on. Devo-max is BS. I want Scotland in the union personally as I believe we'll all be weaker apart but I fully respect a yes/no decision is Scotlands choice. A 'hmmm maybe' that effects the majority directly, no thanks.