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Old January 10th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #21
MattiG
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The basic problem of warning signs is the fact they cannot prevent drunk, elderly or suicidal drivers from entering a wrong ramp to the motorway.

Rather many papers list the diamond-shaped interchange as problematic ones. At those, it is easy to take the wrong way by mistake. One easy solution is to create a more clear guidance by splitting the advance sign into two separate signs, if there is space to do that:



More money is needed to make it difficult to take the wrong way by redesigning the interchange. One solution is to build roundabout-like structures on the secondary road, like in this example from Sweden:

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=58.964553,...k&z=18&vpsrc=6
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Old January 10th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
we also have these signs, but smoetimes they are not enough for idiots
We have now a complete management for WWD on our motorway network as it is shown in the drawing below:
><
But, as you said, that is not enough. So, we will have to develop these procedures and measures, something like Slovenian did but with phisical ramps at the MW exit points. The drawings will be given next time.

Last edited by geor; January 10th, 2012 at 11:24 PM.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The basic problem of warning signs is the fact they cannot prevent drunk, elderly or suicidal drivers from entering a wrong ramp to the motorway.

Rather many papers list the diamond-shaped interchange as problematic ones. At those, it is easy to take the wrong way by mistake. One easy solution is to create a more clear guidance by splitting the advance sign into two separate signs, if there is space to do that:

Absolute nonsense. Road signage is for people not known to the local situation. These people need to know the directions before the first decision-point. Withholding information for the other direction is the wrong solution for the wrong problem.

Better focus on the infrastructure, on regular no-entry-signs, and last-but-not-least: on alcohol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
More money is needed to make it difficult to take the wrong way by redesigning the interchange. One solution is to build roundabout-like structures on the secondary road, like in this example from Sweden:

http://maps.google.fi/?ll=58.964553,...k&z=18&vpsrc=6
Indeed, creating these dog-bones, or double roundabouts, can help solving the problem.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 08:28 PM   #24
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is it annual/2011 WWD statistics for whole Italy?
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Old January 11th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #25
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Road tire spikes for wrong-way drivers, auto-detecting machine guns for wrong way drivers...couple of ideas.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #26
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Red reflective raised pavement LED markers are another widely used countermeasure in USA. These RPMs are used as a countermeasure on freeway main lanes and also by some agencies on exit ramps, either along the edge lines and/or as part of the wrong-way pavement arrow. Type II-R is the common RPM placed on freeway main lanes with the red side facing in the wrong-way direction.

Picture of the Wrong-Way Raised Pavement Marker in USA:
><

If we apply before mentioned explanations on the motorways in EU, all the traffic is moving wrong way, excluded Swiss&Germany:
><


Croatian tunnels-on both sides red LED markers:
<><

><
White LED markers on both sides

Last edited by geor; January 11th, 2012 at 10:35 PM.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 10:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
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auto-detecting machine guns for wrong way drivers...couple of ideas.
This was one of the ideas of Mr. Z.Marusic, Who included helecopters team for that purpose. It is not a joke.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Croatian tunnels-on both sides red LED markers:
<><
in HR the LED markers have the same colour scheme as normal markers out of tunnels or viaducts, where LED are used. so, in normal motorway regulation on both sides are red, but when there is 2-way distribution (due to works for example), there are red markers at the right, and white markers on the left side, just as on the normal 2 way roads. that's why Austrian and Slovenian way of marking was never too clear to me.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
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is it annual/2011 WWD statistics for whole Italy?
Yes... almost, it is updated till 20th December.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 01:12 AM   #30
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Quote:
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in HR the LED markers have the same colour scheme as normal markers out of tunnels or viaducts, where LED are used. so, in normal motorway regulation on both sides are red, but when there is 2-way distribution (due to works for example), there are red markers at the right, and white markers on the left side, just as on the normal 2 way roads. that's why Austrian and Slovenian way of marking was never too clear to me.
That is very serious problem if there is red LED marker in direction of traffic. In worse weather condition (fog), many drivers would think that stop lights on vehicle are LED markers. Due to that, I think German and Swiss have the right traffic regulation. All others with different solutions are wrong. When there is a road works on MW, you can switch off LED markers. It is not necessary to be turned on.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:01 AM   #31
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-14822317

contains video of someone doing it at night

nearly 40 km on the wrong side of the M5 in the UK a few months ago, twice the alcohol limit, no insurance, sent to prison
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:40 AM   #32
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Indeed, creating these dog-bones, or double roundabouts, can help solving the problem.
Those are called raindrop roundabouts.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:15 AM   #33
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Look here!

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article13915739.ab

Click at the link. Wait some sekonds. Then you can see a film with someone who driving at the wrong side at a motorway in Sweden. I know they speak Swedish. But you can see the crazy car at the wrong side at the motorway. It's somewhere from Norrköping to Nyköping at the E4.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Look here!

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article13915739.ab

Click at the link. Wait some sekonds. Then you can see a film with someone who driving at the wrong side at a motorway in Sweden. I know they speak Swedish. But you can see the crazy car at the wrong side at the motorway. It's somewhere from Norrköping to Nyköping at the E4.
Haha, again?? This happend twice to me. Once I drove on a routelikly-motorway near Willys, Helsingborg, and a car from nowhere drove towards me, I was so afraid and thank God we didn't collide into each other. It was an old man who drove that car and he drove on the wrong side. There are many senior people in Sweden that have driving licenes and this is mostly the reason why some drive on the wrong side, they forget the rules. And by age, then I mean 70years+.

The second time was also at Helsingborg, near Väla at a roundabout and a senior man drove on the wrong side on the roundabout. Do not know why but I think that he thought he was in UK.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:48 PM   #35
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I must say some time ago I drove a roundabout the wrong way. In my defence, it was a temporary one just built before entering a toll barrier on A14, it was night, and horribly placed signs made me. I guess many other drivers fell into the trap.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #36
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Logic of the color of led indicators is:
- red color - similar to backlights of cars, usually on the right side of the road - you're on the correct lane, like driving in the same direction and looking at the back of the cars.
- light color - similar to headlights of cars, usually on the left side of the road - you're on the wrong side of the road, like driving in the contrary direction and looking on the front of the cars.
That's why it's supposed on motorways and one-way tunnels led indicators can be red on both sides - when you drive in the correct direction you look only at the back side of cars and see only the backlights.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Logic of the color of led indicators is:
- red color - similar to backlights of cars, usually on the right side of the road - you're on the correct lane, like driving in the same direction and looking at the back of the cars.
- light color - similar to headlights of cars, usually on the left side of the road - you're on the wrong side of the road, like driving in the contrary direction and looking on the front of the cars.
That's why it's supposed on motorways and one-way tunnels led indicators can be red on both sides - when you drive in the correct direction you look only at the back side of cars and see only the backlights.
There are many drivers Who do not distinguish red LED markers from stop lights of vehicles in adverse weather conditions (fog/soot/smog/gas/vapor/mist...). There were a lot of accidents in our tunnels in which this was present. It is supposed that some accidents could be avoided if there were white LED markers on both sides. As for me, I also had unpleasent experience with red LED markers on viadukts, in night. I think everyone here knows that red colour is used for state of alarm and closing something, for example-closing road, traffic, lane.......
On the other hand, green and white colour are symbols for free movement and it is not possible to change their meaning for red stoplight as it is with red LED markers. Do you think German and Swiss do not know the logic of colour????????????????????? I am not sure!

Last edited by geor; January 12th, 2012 at 10:36 PM.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
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There are many drivers Who do not distinguish red LED markers from stop lights of vehicles in adverse weather conditions (fog/soot/smog/gas/vapor/mist...). There were a lot of accidents in our tunnels in which this was present. It is supposed that some accidents could be avoided if there were white LED markers on both sides. As for me, I also had unpleasent experience with red LED markers on viadukts, in night. I think everyone here knows that red colour is used for state of alarm and closing something, for example-closing road, traffic, lane.......
On the other hand, green and white colour are symbols for free movement and it is not possible to change their meaning for red stoplight as it is with red LED markers.
have you ever heard of Željko Marušić? oh, excuse me, dr. Željko Marušić? you sound quite a lot like him
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #39
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Moreover - red shows where you should not go - you neither would like to bump in the wall of the tunnel (red LED markers) nor the back of a car (backlights). You don't try to go between backlights of the car, as well as you don't try to go between the red markers on the side of the road.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #40
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have you ever heard of Željko Marušić? oh, excuse me, dr. Željko Marušić? you sound quite a lot like him
If I said such a stupid things as He did (mentioned above), I immediately stop to write any more on this forum. That could be understand as assault.

Last edited by geor; January 13th, 2012 at 11:24 PM.
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