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Old March 2nd, 2012, 05:28 PM   #241
sebvill
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Of course Spain is developed for nowday standards. With the loads of money the EU pour on it, it would be a shame if it wasnt.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #242
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Of course Spain is developed for nowday standards. With the loads of money the EU pour on it, it would be a shame if it wasnt.
Absolutely. Spain would have never grown if it wasn't for those European funds that made up the 0.8% of its GDP between 1986 and 2006.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #243
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Absolutely. Spain would have never grown if it wasn't for those European funds that made up the 0.8% of its GDP between 1986 and 2006.
% of Spain budget not % of GDP is important to compare
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Old March 5th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #244
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That's hard to say because the funds are shared among many different administrations. I couldn't find an official balance, but according to this graph it must have been at most a 0.6% of the total public incomes during the last years (obviously, that's a balance, i.e., the amount of EU funds that arrives to the country could have reached at times the 4%, but Spain gives to the EU almost as much money as it gets from it and that contribution has to be sustracted). The balance may have been bigger in previous decades but not so larger.

Anyway, believe me if I tell you that having more public funds to spend doesn't develop a country.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicus View Post
Not true.

The Wall Street Journal

[/B]

---------------

And seriously... Arguinig wether Spain is or not a developed country is ridiculous. I don't know any serious organization or economist who doesn't consider Spain a developed country. Nor now nor in 2007. Just come and visit Spain.
If you mean visit Madrid and Barcelona or other large cities, I agree. But Spanish small towns and countryside are still notoriously 3rd world, as the economic and finance commissions in Europe often point out. Corruption (and simple lack of records) is notorious, tax evasion endemic, auditing standards ignored, and living standards low. The EU exempts Spain from various agricultural and tax rules, because it can't comply. Last I looked (a few years ago) minimum wages were different for men and women, which I had never seen except in the 3rd world (where it's usually illegal, but the law is ignored). This is, of course, changing, but it is far from a reality.

I don't have the cite at hand but I read a recent article that said that computer professionals are leaving Spain to find better jobs in other countries, and 1 guy said he makes more as a bartender in the UK than as a programmer in Spain. Unemployment among men under 25 is 50 percent. These conditions are not consistent with a fully developed economy; closer to India or Eastern Europe.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #246
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Have you ever been to Spain? Which agricultural and tax rules are they exempt from? Saying that smaller Spanish towns are 'notoriously third world' is somewhat ridiculous imo...
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Old March 5th, 2012, 11:46 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesto View Post
If you mean visit Madrid and Barcelona or other large cities, I agree. But Spanish small towns and countryside are still notoriously 3rd world, as the economic and finance commissions in Europe often point out. Corruption (and simple lack of records) is notorious, tax evasion endemic, auditing standards ignored, and living standards low. The EU exempts Spain from various agricultural and tax rules, because it can't comply. Last I looked (a few years ago) minimum wages were different for men and women, which I had never seen except in the 3rd world (where it's usually illegal, but the law is ignored). This is, of course, changing, but it is far from a reality.

I don't have the cite at hand but I read a recent article that said that computer professionals are leaving Spain to find better jobs in other countries, and 1 guy said he makes more as a bartender in the UK than as a programmer in Spain. Unemployment among men under 25 is 50 percent. These conditions are not consistent with a fully developed economy; closer to India or Eastern Europe.


A minium wage for women? Are you dreaming?

Last edited by Pavlemadrid; March 5th, 2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesto View Post
If you mean visit Madrid and Barcelona or other large cities, I agree. But Spanish small towns and countryside are still notoriously 3rd world, as the economic and finance commissions in Europe often point out. Corruption (and simple lack of records) is notorious, tax evasion endemic, auditing standards ignored, and living standards low. The EU exempts Spain from various agricultural and tax rules, because it can't comply. Last I looked (a few years ago) minimum wages were different for men and women, which I had never seen except in the 3rd world (where it's usually illegal, but the law is ignored). This is, of course, changing, but it is far from a reality.

I don't have the cite at hand but I read a recent article that said that computer professionals are leaving Spain to find better jobs in other countries, and 1 guy said he makes more as a bartender in the UK than as a programmer in Spain. Unemployment among men under 25 is 50 percent. These conditions are not consistent with a fully developed economy; closer to India or Eastern Europe.
I had never seen such a ridiculous comment, and a lack of knowledge of a country .... the Spanish medium and small cities have a high level of development my friend..
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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:07 AM   #249
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Old March 6th, 2012, 05:00 AM   #250
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Obviously Greece.. Looking increasingly thrid worldy these days :P
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Old March 6th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesto View Post
If you mean visit Madrid and Barcelona or other large cities, I agree. But Spanish small towns and countryside are still notoriously 3rd world, as the economic and finance commissions in Europe often point out. Corruption (and simple lack of records) is notorious, tax evasion endemic, auditing standards ignored, and living standards low. The EU exempts Spain from various agricultural and tax rules, because it can't comply. Last I looked (a few years ago) minimum wages were different for men and women, which I had never seen except in the 3rd world (where it's usually illegal, but the law is ignored). This is, of course, changing, but it is far from a reality.

I don't have the cite at hand but I read a recent article that said that computer professionals are leaving Spain to find better jobs in other countries, and 1 guy said he makes more as a bartender in the UK than as a programmer in Spain. Unemployment among men under 25 is 50 percent. These conditions are not consistent with a fully developed economy; closer to India or Eastern Europe.

I think you are lost here pal, 4chan is in the other way. At least give me sources for the women or the agricultural taxes thing.
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Last edited by Atomicus; March 6th, 2012 at 03:24 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 02:02 PM   #252
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I am really amazed by the big ignorance about Spain in this thread. But another forumers aren't ignorant, they only have prejudices impossible to eradicate. Isn't that true, sebvill?

What would the peruvian government had done with a fund of 0.7% GDP between 1986-2006? Would Peru be as developped like Spain?

You need more information about history of economy, and a fresh mind free of prejudices to understand it.

Last edited by Kaetzar; March 6th, 2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #253
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It's that same old inferiority complex, of which my south american compatriots suffer......
Sitting in their middle class apartment, behind their computer screen ,they believe that after a few years of growth, we will conquer the world, and smash the hated imperialist countries. Old ones like Spain , or new ones like the US, some over here really think (or would love to believe) that the current crises will never pass, our growth will never pass, and some over here will keep on dreaming abour spanish or american maids, chauffeurs etc, to serve them...
Very pathetic, but give them a break, someday time will show them.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 06:12 PM   #254
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Except Pesto seems to be from California, which isn't part of LatAm quite yet.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 06:20 PM   #255
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almost....
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #256
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But it should be. Give it back, gringos!
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
Except Pesto seems to be from California, which isn't part of LatAm quite yet.
Pesto is a sauce originating in Genoa in the Liguria region of northern Italy. Delicious supplement to pasta, I must say. Get you facts straight Jonesy
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Old March 7th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #258
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Pesto is from California?
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Old March 7th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #259
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Spain is another choice..
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Old March 7th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #260
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You wish it, it's clear.
It's amazing how some people love the schadenfreude.
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