Mistake to back UK in it's gripes with EU?

odlum833 · January 16th, 2012, 09:37 PM

I was curious this week about the sight of the Taoiseach and officials meeting the British PM in Downing Street and holding a press conference completely ruling out a transaction tax in Ireland for financial institutions. The inference being that the British would support us on Corporation Tax as long as we agreed not to go along with a Eurozone transaction tax. - i.e it's the British Government saying help us to screw them (just for the sake of it?).

All seems pretty reasonable and sensible except when taken in the context of the recent move of isolationism by the UK in relation to the EU.

I was listening to one German commentator on Radio yesterday make a very good point. Essentially he was saying Ireland was hanging out with "the loner of Europe" and this is damaging to us because Britain is not the flavour of the month on the Continent right now. He said we are backing the wrong horse.

Ireland is too small to act as some sort of a bridge between Britain and the Eurozone so what benefit do we get by so publically backing a country that is well on it's way into the second tier of Europe? None in my view. Ireland wants Britain in the center not out of the EU. Their interests are often very closely aligned to ours. So as a large state they are handy for us in negotiations with the Franco - German axis. Except they have decided to exclude themselves by using their veto. Now not too many EU states want to be seen to be too close. As Catherine Day said last week the convoy is moving and the UK is half coupled at the back. Instead of being of use they have become a hinderance. So now Ireland constantly proclaims how it is at "the heart of Europe" and then goes drinking tea with Europhobes.

Long story short. We need less of this sucking up to the UK and more alliances on the Continent. That is where our future is. Not on the way out of the club with Britain. I'm not saying have nothing to do with them or anything like that - they are one of our largest trading partners and ally. But it is so obvious why Cameron is parading certain EU leaders up to 10 Down Street - it's to show Britain has friends in Europe. Strength in numbers. That sort of thing.

Not in our interest to be so chummy with a country whose Government is bent on disengagement from Europe. Enda might realise that at the next EU summit.

This...

or this

aek-94 · January 16th, 2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odlum833

Definitely that one. Ireland's future is best served through continental alliances, not aligning itself to Britain.

Onoudidnt · January 17th, 2012, 12:49 AM

I'm by no means an expert on economics, but it seems to me that a transaction tax on financial institutions only in the EU would be detrimental to its economy unless it was brought in globally.... So I would say we're right to stick with Britain.

Aaronj09 · January 17th, 2012, 12:52 AM

I think this thread is pointless because you've already made up your answer.

But, if you think your future lies under the foot of your German overlords, then good for you, we'll just focus more on China and the emerging economies.

belfastuniguy · January 17th, 2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaronj09

I think this thread is pointless because you've already made up your answer.

But, if you think your future lies under the foot of your German overlords, then good for you, we'll just focus more on China and the emerging economies.

Indeed

If a financial transaction tax is brought in to force then Ireland will suffer as well. The more and more Ireland submits to German and French pressure then the likelihood of German and French action to target your low corporation tax increases. Only the incredibly naive would think otherwise and international corporations know that as well.

odlum833 · January 17th, 2012, 05:35 PM

What country is not looking to the emerging markets? Everyone is. Are you saying Britain is trying to economically disengage from Europe? Hardly.

I gave my opinion in the OP. I don't think we should be alligning ourselves too closely with Britain right now. Our future is within a more integrated European Union and a strong Euro currency.

Germany has been very supportive to Ireland contrary to popular belief. It's the French that like to antagonise for internal political reasons. Thankfully their leader would appear to be on the way out. Not so David Cameron who is the leader of what right now seems to be the single most Eurosceptic country in Europe. And worse it looks like his coalition is solid for the moment.

Vetos are intended to be there in the background as a very last resort. They should not be used. When David Cameron did that he isolated the UK within Europe. Make no mistake about it at the next EU summit how much influence will Cameron have esspecially with the French and the Germans? He can get support from the likes of Hungary or whatever other peripheral countries they tried (and failed) to rally after he used the veto. I think Denmark was another one that had a change of heart.

I am not for a transaction tax unless it is a global tax. I agree with the British government 100% on that. I am just curious as to why Britain thinks it is in their interest for Ireland not to have a transaction tax? And why they would support us on Corporation tax (which they really can't now btw after the veto) if we support them on transaction tax!? It does not make sense unless it's a petty desire to irratate the Eurozone countries on the continent. What I am saying is and it's been commented on in the media is that Ireland is allowing itself be used by the loony branch of the tory Eurosceptic wing to basically hurt Europe.

What Ireland should do is say thanks but no thanks. We won't be introducing a transaction tax in any case without Britain being in so why should we accept support on Corporation tax when we don't need it? More engagement with Germany is what we need.

When Ireland returns to the markets later this year we don't want to find ourselves push out of the core decision making to a side show of an isolated UK in Europe. That would be bad economically and psycologically IMO.

nordisk celt83 · January 17th, 2012, 08:44 PM

Confirmed eurosceptic here. Our past has been and our future will be far more reliant on our relationships with fellow anglo-phonic countries.

We may have a troubled past with the UK, but there is genuine cordiality and friendship between the two nations, which benefits economic ties considerably. Closer harmonisation with Europe is aimed to serve only the interest of France and Germany, who don't give a fiddlers fuck about Ireland.

JD47 · February 13th, 2012, 03:39 PM

I am stuck on this one. I think we need to stick with Europe because we need them and a strong EU.
On the other hand Britain is our biggest trading partners and I think our best friends at the moment and a part of me always feels ok when Britain is in the room with us in EU meetings. Without them it feels like we are on our own in Europe. Germany and France dont give a shit about Ireland anyway. It would be good for us to have the UK in the room when it comes to EU decisions.

January 16th, 2012, 09:37 PM	#1
odlum833 In the brig Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 6,496 Likes (Received): 83	Mistake to back UK in it's gripes with EU? I was curious this week about the sight of the Taoiseach and officials meeting the British PM in Downing Street and holding a press conference completely ruling out a transaction tax in Ireland for financial institutions. The inference being that the British would support us on Corporation Tax as long as we agreed not to go along with a Eurozone transaction tax. - i.e it's the British Government saying help us to screw them (just for the sake of it?). All seems pretty reasonable and sensible except when taken in the context of the recent move of isolationism by the UK in relation to the EU. I was listening to one German commentator on Radio yesterday make a very good point. Essentially he was saying Ireland was hanging out with "the loner of Europe" and this is damaging to us because Britain is not the flavour of the month on the Continent right now. He said we are backing the wrong horse. Ireland is too small to act as some sort of a bridge between Britain and the Eurozone so what benefit do we get by so publically backing a country that is well on it's way into the second tier of Europe? None in my view. Ireland wants Britain in the center not out of the EU. Their interests are often very closely aligned to ours. So as a large state they are handy for us in negotiations with the Franco - German axis. Except they have decided to exclude themselves by using their veto. Now not too many EU states want to be seen to be too close. As Catherine Day said last week the convoy is moving and the UK is half coupled at the back. Instead of being of use they have become a hinderance. So now Ireland constantly proclaims how it is at "the heart of Europe" and then goes drinking tea with Europhobes. Long story short. We need less of this sucking up to the UK and more alliances on the Continent. That is where our future is. Not on the way out of the club with Britain. I'm not saying have nothing to do with them or anything like that - they are one of our largest trading partners and ally. But it is so obvious why Cameron is parading certain EU leaders up to 10 Down Street - it's to show Britain has friends in Europe. Strength in numbers. That sort of thing. Not in our interest to be so chummy with a country whose Government is bent on disengagement from Europe. Enda might realise that at the next EU summit. This... or this

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January 17th, 2012, 12:49 AM	#3
Onoudidnt Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 128 Likes (Received): 0	I'm by no means an expert on economics, but it seems to me that a transaction tax on financial institutions only in the EU would be detrimental to its economy unless it was brought in globally.... So I would say we're right to stick with Britain.

January 17th, 2012, 12:52 AM	#4
Aaronj09 Not a Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Leeds Posts: 7,706 Likes (Received): 219	I think this thread is pointless because you've already made up your answer. But, if you think your future lies under the foot of your German overlords, then good for you, we'll just focus more on China and the emerging economies.

January 17th, 2012, 05:35 PM	#6
odlum833 In the brig Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 6,496 Likes (Received): 83	What country is not looking to the emerging markets? Everyone is. Are you saying Britain is trying to economically disengage from Europe? Hardly. I gave my opinion in the OP. I don't think we should be alligning ourselves too closely with Britain right now. Our future is within a more integrated European Union and a strong Euro currency. Germany has been very supportive to Ireland contrary to popular belief. It's the French that like to antagonise for internal political reasons. Thankfully their leader would appear to be on the way out. Not so David Cameron who is the leader of what right now seems to be the single most Eurosceptic country in Europe. And worse it looks like his coalition is solid for the moment. Vetos are intended to be there in the background as a very last resort. They should not be used. When David Cameron did that he isolated the UK within Europe. Make no mistake about it at the next EU summit how much influence will Cameron have esspecially with the French and the Germans? He can get support from the likes of Hungary or whatever other peripheral countries they tried (and failed) to rally after he used the veto. I think Denmark was another one that had a change of heart. I am not for a transaction tax unless it is a global tax. I agree with the British government 100% on that. I am just curious as to why Britain thinks it is in their interest for Ireland not to have a transaction tax? And why they would support us on Corporation tax (which they really can't now btw after the veto) if we support them on transaction tax!? It does not make sense unless it's a petty desire to irratate the Eurozone countries on the continent. What I am saying is and it's been commented on in the media is that Ireland is allowing itself be used by the loony branch of the tory Eurosceptic wing to basically hurt Europe. What Ireland should do is say thanks but no thanks. We won't be introducing a transaction tax in any case without Britain being in so why should we accept support on Corporation tax when we don't need it? More engagement with Germany is what we need. When Ireland returns to the markets later this year we don't want to find ourselves push out of the core decision making to a side show of an isolated UK in Europe. That would be bad economically and psycologically IMO.

January 17th, 2012, 08:44 PM	#7
nordisk celt83 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Oslo, Norway and Enniskerry, Wicklow Posts: 1,006 Likes (Received): 8	Confirmed eurosceptic here. Our past has been and our future will be far more reliant on our relationships with fellow anglo-phonic countries. We may have a troubled past with the UK, but there is genuine cordiality and friendship between the two nations, which benefits economic ties considerably. Closer harmonisation with Europe is aimed to serve only the interest of France and Germany, who don't give a fiddlers fuck about Ireland.

February 13th, 2012, 03:39 PM	#8
JD47 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Dublin Posts: 3,324 Likes (Received): 89	I am stuck on this one. I think we need to stick with Europe because we need them and a strong EU. On the other hand Britain is our biggest trading partners and I think our best friends at the moment and a part of me always feels ok when Britain is in the room with us in EU meetings. Without them it feels like we are on our own in Europe. Germany and France dont give a shit about Ireland anyway. It would be good for us to have the UK in the room when it comes to EU decisions.