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Old February 3rd, 2012, 01:36 PM   #81
OtAkAw
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These glorious cities would be more than enough reasons for me to build a time machine.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 01:48 PM   #82
the spliff fairy
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Anyone got pics of old Hangzhou? population over 2 million, and the world's largest city from the 10th century -mid 1300s. It differed from many other Chinese cities due to a lack of height restrictions (usually cities operated one where no new building could top the palace or walls), and was covered with dense buildings up to 12 storeys. It repeatedly suffered from fires due to the density, but was finally wiped out in the 1860s Taiping Rebellion (worlds second worst war and that destroyed almost all of China's great cities).

#The only pic I could find is one of the pavilions in the West Lake
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 01:57 PM   #83
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Quote:
Gyeongju, South Korea was a city of 1 million in the Silla era (1st century- 9th Century), today its only 1/4 the size. It's still dotted with large burial mounds:
Interesting, I'ver never heard of this city.
But the first megacity in history was Rome with 1.5 Mill. inhabitants in the 3rd century.
1.500.000 people - I guess it was a daily challenge to supply such a giant city in the 3rd century.
No city -beside Beijing- has such an amazing history over thousands of years.

I love the "Eternal City"
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 02:09 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
Its massive city wall over 30km is still the worlds largest
The largest fortifications of any city still belong to Athens, with the famous long walls
Athens walls: 9 km around city proper, 11 km of walls around the port of Piraeus,
15 km the Long Walls and 6.5 km the wall of Phalerum, total 41km+ without including around 1 km the walls of Acropolis
and the extensions of the city walls north in Roman times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Athens


Last edited by ayanamikun; February 3rd, 2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 02:26 PM   #85
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^thats a series of wall. Nanjing also had a series of walls, when it added new sections of city some areas had 20 sets of wall as defences, the 30+km walls are only the outside.

For series of walls it would have to be Beijing, not only were they the most massive ever built (not the longest but the largest) - claimed to be an 8th wonder of the world right into the 19th Century - 60ft thick and 60ft high with castle sized watchtowers and gates on a 23.5 km long perimeter, they enclosed numerous other walls, just as massive for the Inner and Outer cities, the Imperial City, and the Forbidden City.








Southwest Corner Tower



Inner City Wall and 50m (150ft) wide moat




Qianmen, one of the gates to the Imperial City

[img]http://download.************.com/fotos/bajaage/cached/1015/XI3-1324632.jpg[/img]



perimeter walls of the Imperial and Forbidden Cities. Mao's tomb and Tiananmen Square/ Chang'An Avenue now stand where the outer ones used to.




Tiananmen Gate to the Forbidden City



Further in, the massive Front Gate of the Forbidden City




Most of the walls and many of the gates were bulldozed in 1965 to make way for the second ring road and a subway line

Last edited by the spliff fairy; February 3rd, 2012 at 03:06 PM.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM   #86
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Alexandria, the first city to reach a million, in 100BC (the other claim for that title is Rome 200 years later)



In Cleopatra's day, 200 years before its height, it reached 325,000. Some of its streets were 200 ft wide.



one of the Seven Wonders of the World, the Pharos of Alkexandria, a 450 ft funerary lighthouse

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Old February 3rd, 2012, 03:19 PM   #87
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Alexandria...what a fascinating city it was!
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Old February 4th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post

In Cleopatra's day, 200 years before its height, it reached 325,000. Some of its streets were 200 ft wide.
Is this entirely true??
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Old February 4th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #89
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yes, nat. geographical article on the city, only a few months ago.

Massive streets were popular back in the old days, as they were useful in keeping the population in check and subdividing the city into workable compartments. The main street for Chang'an in China was a whopping 480ft wide:

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Old February 4th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #90
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Some information about demographics

Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
Alexandria, the first city to reach a million, in 100BC (the other claim for that title is Rome 200 years later)
Modern estimates put the populaiton of Alexandria at between 500,00 to 750,000 people.

The idea that it reached 1 million is based on a census of it's citizen population that counted 180,000 adult male citizens in the 1st century AD. Counting women, children, foreigners and slaves may have added up it's populaiton to 1 million. However a population around 500,000 to 600,000 is considered to be the most realistic estimate. Classical scholars consider Rome to be the first and only ancient city that reached 1 million inhabitants, as Rome had 320,000 adult male citizens at the time of Augustus.

The first city that actually reached 1 million people that we know for sure was London in 1810, in a census.

For ancient cities we do not have surviving censuses of it's urban population nor much information in generall so we never know exactly how big the population of ancient cities were.

Quote:
In Cleopatra's day, 200 years before its height, it reached 325,000. Some of its streets were 200 ft wide.
At the time of Cleopatra, in the 40-30's in the 1st century BC, at actually the time when Alexandria reached it's peak population. The 325,000 number cited in the article is a conservative estimate of it's population while the conventional estimates are 500,000 to 600,000 and the liberal estimate is 1 million.

Last edited by Guaporense; February 4th, 2012 at 11:47 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2012, 11:44 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian12345Lugo View Post
Is this entirely true??
The main avenue only. Most strets in ancient western cities, such as Alexandria were very narrow actually:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQs9h3YurOk

About ancient populations:

Cities over 100,000 inhabitants in ancient and medieval times were actually very rare. For cities over 1,000,000 inhabitants in ancient times the only serious candidate is imperial Rome. In the Middle Ages the only cities that could have reached 1 million inhabitants were perhaps Chang'an in the 8-9th centuries, Kaifeng in the 11th century and Hangzhou in the 12th century.

These cities were capitals of massive empires with populations around 70 to 100 million people and were supported by taxes paid from all over the empire.

No other ancient or medieval city probably reached 1 million. And even half a million inhabitants was extremely rate: the only Western cities were Alexandria and Constantinople.

This is a table illustrating the populations of the largest cities in Europe from the year 1,000 to the year 1,800:



The only European city that approached 1 million inhabitants was London in 1800, while only London and Paris reached even a half million.
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Old February 4th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #92
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largest cities in the world through history, differing by leading historians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ughout_history
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Old February 4th, 2012, 11:56 PM   #93
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also:

"two main streets, lined with colonnades and said to have been each about 60 metres (200 ft) wide, intersected in the center of the city, close to the point where the Sema (or Soma) of Alexander (his Mausoleum) rose. This point is very near the present mosque of Nebi Daniel; and the line of the great East–West "Canopic" street, only slightly diverged from that of the modern Boulevard de Rosette (now Sharia Fouad). Traces of its pavement and canal have been found near the Rosetta Gate, but remnants of streets and canals were exposed in 1899 by German excavators outside the east fortifications, which lie well within the area of the ancient city."
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Old February 5th, 2012, 12:01 AM   #94
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About ancient reconstructions

There is a lot of especulation involved in ancient reconstructions. The only ancient cities that we know their shape with a high degree of detail are the classical cities that were destroyed in a single event, hence were preserved, and were escavated by archeologists.

The best case is Pompeii:


We have escavated about 50% of the city. So we have a good idea of how the entire city looked like.

Thanks to Pompeii we have a good idea of how Roman houses looked like:




Another ancient city that we have a good idea of how it looked like was Olynthus, in Greece, a city destroyed by Phillip II in 348 BC.

Reconstruction of Olynthus by Hoepfner and Schwandner:




The state of some escavated blocks today, not nearly as well preserved as those of Pompeii:

Last edited by Guaporense; February 5th, 2012 at 12:16 AM.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #95
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Pompeii:


Priene, Greek town, population 4,000, dated from 300 BC:


New Carthage, in Roman Iberia

Last edited by Guaporense; February 5th, 2012 at 12:29 AM.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 12:39 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post

For series of walls it would have to be Beijing, not only were they the most massive ever built (not the longest but the largest) - claimed to be an 8th wonder of the world right into the 19th Century - 60ft thick and 60ft high with castle sized watchtowers and gates on a 23.5 km long perimeter, they enclosed numerous other walls, just as massive for the Inner and Outer cities, the Imperial City, and the Forbidden City.
On the photos they don't appear 60 feet thick and 60 feet high.

I know of several ancient and medieval cities with longer walls: Carthage had a perimeter walls of 37 kilometers, while Syracuse had perimeter walls of 27 kilometers.

In China, Chang'an had larger walls: about 36 kilometers of perimeter walls.

Last edited by Guaporense; February 5th, 2012 at 12:46 AM.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 01:08 AM   #97
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TIMGAD


City : TIMGAD
Roman name : Thamugadi
Location : ALGERIA / North Africa
Date : 100 AD

















image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr








image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr





image hosted on flickr


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__________________

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Old February 5th, 2012, 02:14 AM   #98
the spliff fairy
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I love those Roman towns and cities, so regimented! I would lve to see one rebuilt...

ps what was the Roman Empire's second city (in Europe)?

Last edited by the spliff fairy; February 5th, 2012 at 02:23 AM.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 02:57 AM   #99
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I guess Capua, the actual Naples...
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Old February 5th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
I love those Roman towns and cities, so regimented! I would lve to see one rebuilt...

ps what was the Roman Empire's second city (in Europe)?
Depend on the time Thessalonica was the second largest city in the Empire after the fall of Rome. It was the co-reigning city alongside with Constantinople.

Capua, Athens or Syracuse can be the second city in the early empire I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Modern estimates put the populaiton of Alexandria at between 500,00 to 750,000 people.

The idea that it reached 1 million is based on a census of it's citizen population that counted 180,000 adult male citizens in the 1st century AD. Counting women, children, foreigners and slaves may have added up it's populaiton to 1 million. However a population around 500,000 to 600,000 is considered to be the most realistic estimate. Classical scholars consider Rome to be the first and only ancient city that reached 1 million inhabitants, as Rome had 320,000 adult male citizens at the time of Augustus.

The first city that actually reached 1 million people that we know for sure was London in 1810, in a census.

For ancient cities we do not have surviving censuses of it's urban population nor much information in generall so we never know exactly how big the population of ancient cities were.

At the time of Cleopatra, in the 40-30's in the 1st century BC, at actually the time when Alexandria reached it's peak population. The 325,000 number cited in the article is a conservative estimate of it's population while the conventional estimates are 500,000 to 600,000 and the liberal estimate is 1 million.
Roman citizens only made up about 10% of the empire's population. A Roman citizen is an elite man.

p/s: That's before Diocletian

Last edited by haikiller11; February 5th, 2012 at 03:19 PM.
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