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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:10 AM   #21
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' Toronto's the most ethnically diverse city in the western world according to both the United Nations and the OECD.

I'm sure that would be news to lots of New Yorkers!
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Old January 30th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #22
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I'm sure that would be news to lots of New Yorkers!
Going by the numbers, it probably is. But you can hardly feel the "diversity" in the city as you do in NYC. NYC immigrants alone is over 3 million, more than Toronto's population
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Old February 1st, 2012, 03:53 AM   #23
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Going by the numbers, it probably is. But you can hardly feel the "diversity" in the city as you do in NYC. NYC immigrants alone is over 3 million, more than Toronto's population
Good points, agree.

I'd grant Toronto a slight edge over Chicago when it comes to racial & ethnic diversity. Primarily owing to the persistence of too much segregation in the Windy City.

But no city, including Toronto or London, beats the Big Apple when it comes to racial-ethnic diversity. Queens alone is one of the most diversity places in the world.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:08 AM   #24
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I dunno. I've been to NYC multiple times and I did not find that to be the case. I think London, Toronto and NYC are pretty similar in their "diversity". After a certain point, it becomes impossible to somehow quantify diversity and compare it across cities. NYC has a bigger population so obviously there are more visible minorities and non Anglo-saxons in terms of absolute numbers but I would think that percentage breakdown is a more important barometer.

Personally what I find that truly stands out in terms of diversity in Toronto isn't the number of foreign born individuals but rather the distribution of every ethnic group across all socio-economic stratas. I feel that in other cities, some ethnicities tend to be grossly over represented in poorer neighbourhoods while some other ethnicities tend to be over represented in richer neighbourhoods. Even though this is true for Toronto as well, it is very much obvious for NYC and London. In Toronto I find that all ethnicities tend to be spread out across all sort of neighbourhoods within the city proper, the inner suburbs and the outer suburbs, although it must be said that low, medium and high income neighbourhoods themselves seem to be spread all across the region. Also we don't have some extremely rich neighbourhoods like Upper East side manhattan nor massive poor public housing estates, so I suppose NYC has greater diversity in that regard, although I would personally call it strictly income inequality.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 05:13 PM   #25
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I dunno. I've been to NYC multiple times and I did not find that to be the case. I think London, Toronto and NYC are pretty similar in their "diversity". After a certain point, it becomes impossible to somehow quantify diversity and compare it across cities. NYC has a bigger population so obviously there are more visible minorities and non Anglo-saxons in terms of absolute numbers but I would think that percentage breakdown is a more important barometer.

Personally what I find that truly stands out in terms of diversity in Toronto isn't the number of foreign born individuals but rather the distribution of every ethnic group across all socio-economic stratas. I feel that in other cities, some ethnicities tend to be grossly over represented in poorer neighbourhoods while some other ethnicities tend to be over represented in richer neighbourhoods. Even though this is true for Toronto as well, it is very much obvious for NYC and London. In Toronto I find that all ethnicities tend to be spread out across all sort of neighbourhoods within the city proper, the inner suburbs and the outer suburbs, although it must be said that low, medium and high income neighbourhoods themselves seem to be spread all across the region. Also we don't have some extremely rich neighbourhoods like Upper East side manhattan nor massive poor public housing estates, so I suppose NYC has greater diversity in that regard, although I would personally call it strictly income inequality.
Sadly I agree with what you have said. Canada has been better in integrating their immigrants. Immigrants in the US tend to be in the working to lower class sectors. It's obvious in certain neighborhoods in many boroughs of NYC that the "bad" neighborhoods are immigrant-laden. I can't speak for London, but according to a few family members, it's almost quite the same there.

However, I don't think Toronto is even up there with NYC and London when it comes to diversity. It's not just in the numbers, but countries represented as well. I just didn't feel that when I went to Toronto (my partner lives there). I barely felt the immigrant presence, while in NYC, it can be very overwhelming at many places. 800 spoken languages - more than any city in the world. Mind you, like you said, some are more large in numbers - Koreans, Chinese, Filipino, Latinos, Russians over say Somalians, but the fact that many immigrants are being represented speaks volume of the diversity in NYC. However, Chicago is very "white" of a city, so Toronto trumps it when it comes to diversity
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 09:13 PM   #26
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Chicago is very "white" of a city
actually, chicago isn't a very "white" city at all*. however, it is a hyper-segregated city, so if all you know of chicago is the downtown area and a handful of trendy northside hoods, you can get that impression, but it's incredibly far from reality.


(*) major racial/ethnic groups:

black: 32.9%
white (non-latino): 31.7%
latino: 26.0%
asian: 5.5%
other: 3.9%

and chicago is 21.7% foreign born. that's far below toronto, but it's not like chicago is some cultural backwater made up entirely of the 3rd generation sons and daughters of old polish factory workers.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 05:29 AM   #27
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The suburbs outside of Chicago are now more ethnically diverse than the city, or at least have a larger number of foreign born and from a greater variety of places. In 2000, the City of Chicago has a long history of being home to immigrant communities, the suburbs recently overtook the city in the number of foreign-born residents: 788,000 immigrants reside in the suburbs compared to 629,000 in the city. An increasing number of recent immigrants have bypassed the city altogether and have settled directly in the suburbs.

The latest census figures show this trend accelerating.






Toronto's CMA has just over 2.5 million people born outside of Canada. Quite an impressive number for a metropolitan area of 5.6 million
http://www.trra.ca/en/reports/TorontoGenDemo.asp


Chicago's CSA has nearly 1.7 million people born outside the US. Out of a population of 9.8 million in the metro area.
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Fil...son_singer.pdf
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for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false

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Old February 5th, 2012, 07:23 PM   #28
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However, I don't think Toronto is even up there with NYC and London when it comes to diversity. It's not just in the numbers, but countries represented as well. I just didn't feel that when I went to Toronto (my partner lives there). I barely felt the immigrant presence, while in NYC, it can be very overwhelming at many places. 800 spoken languages - more than any city in the world. Mind you, like you said, some are more large in numbers - Koreans, Chinese, Filipino, Latinos, Russians over say Somalians, but the fact that many immigrants are being represented speaks volume of the diversity in NYC. However, Chicago is very "white" of a city, so Toronto trumps it when it comes to diversity

Personal anecdotes aside, the numbes don't lie. 29% of the people in NY were born in a different country, versus 46% in Toronto. Obviously you can't compare raw numbers because NY is 4 times the size. And in Toronto that 46% is from all over the world, as opposed to being dominated from some neighbouring country like Mexico.

And are 800 languages even spoken in the world today? That seems a bit extreme.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #29
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Forumers did some research years back that showed that NYC had immigrant representation from every single region of the world in communities greater than 10,000 people. The largest immigration in NYC comes from China, The Carribean, and Central America. Mexico is fairly new and halfway down the list.

I'm pretty sure there won't be any one group in Toronto that has greater numbers than NYC, besides French Canadian. Not necessarily because its bigger either. For instance, Seattle has more Chinese than Chicago & Chicago has more Polish than NYC.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #30
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Personal anecdotes aside, the numbes don't lie. 29% of the people in NY were born in a different country, versus 46% in Toronto. Obviously you can't compare raw numbers because NY is 4 times the size. And in Toronto that 46% is from all over the world, as opposed to being dominated from some neighbouring country like Mexico.

And are 800 languages even spoken in the world today? That seems a bit extreme.
1. There are over 6000 languages in the world. 800 is not far fetched - although it's not a precise count, but experts believe it to be.

2. NYC's immigrant population is above 3M or high as 37% (figure from 2006) Not as high as Toronto, but not that far. Either way, the immigration population is just WAY bigger.

3. Are you implying that most of NYC's immigrants are Mexicans? As far as I know, most of Toronto's immigrants are from Southeast Asia. Likewise in NYC, some presence are bigger than the others. Dominicans and Chinese dominate NY. Mexicans are surprisingly fourth. But you get the impression that Mexicans or Latins dominate since you can see many Spanish translations everywhere in NYC nowadays

OT: This is a Chicago and Toronto thread.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #31
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Speaking of which here are a few pie charts that show the country of origin of immigrants residing in the New York area.





Federal Reserve Bank of New York: New York City Immigrants: The 1990s Wave

Anyways as you can see Mexicans only compose 5% of New York City's total immigrant population, with immigrants from the Carribean, Central and South America, far outnumbering the Mexicans.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 06:47 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sarcasticity View Post
1. There are over 6000 languages in the world. 800 is not far fetched - although it's not a precise count, but experts believe it to be.

2. NYC's immigrant population is above 3M or high as 37% (figure from 2006) Not as high as Toronto, but not that far. Either way, the immigration population is just WAY bigger.

3. Are you implying that most of NYC's immigrants are Mexicans? As far as I know, most of Toronto's immigrants are from Southeast Asia. Likewise in NYC, some presence are bigger than the others. Dominicans and Chinese dominate NY. Mexicans are surprisingly fourth. But you get the impression that Mexicans or Latins dominate since you can see many Spanish translations everywhere in NYC nowadays

OT: This is a Chicago and Toronto thread.

Yea, New York has a majority of Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and so on. It's populated with Hispanics. As for Toronto I know that a lot come from Asia, Europe and so on.
But besides that, yes I agree. I'm pretty sure I wanted to know mostly about the similarities and differences of Chicago and Toronto. I love NYC and all but I don't remember of mentioning it.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 04:49 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo234 View Post
Speaking of which here are a few pie charts that show the country of origin of immigrants residing in the New York area.





Federal Reserve Bank of New York: New York City Immigrants: The 1990s Wave

Anyways as you can see Mexicans only compose 5% of New York City's total immigrant population, with immigrants from the Carribean, Central and South America, far outnumbering the Mexicans.
This isn't the total. It's just those who moved in during one decade.

Another note: Puerto Ricans are Americans, not immigrants, so they're not counted despite coming from different language stock. That's a massive number in NY.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 05:02 AM   #34
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This isn't the total. It's just those who moved in during one decade.

Another note: Puerto Ricans are Americans, not immigrants, so they're not counted despite coming from different language stock. That's a massive number in NY.
Right! Me being PR I totally forgot. Smh
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Old February 8th, 2012, 05:30 AM   #35
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My 2 cents:

If NYC is a "much larger" version of Chicago, Toronto could easily be considered a slightly smaller version of Chicago. As far as the cityscape goes, both cities are very similar. However, in terms of 'feel', I have to grudgingly admit Toronto feels more like the Big Leagues than Chicago does. It's not just the markets, diversity, etc...hard to put my finger on it. Chicago is larger (especially the metro area) but Toronto has a jive going on that Chicago doesn't.

One thing's for sure, both Chicago and Toronto [in my opinion] have that perfect urban package: not too big, not too small, awesome food, awesome people, great transportation, diversity, dense in some parts, completely walkable in others...they're really the perfect urban package. TO's one of those cities I could easily see myself in, and I pretty much never want to move from Chicago.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #36
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My 2 cents:

If NYC is a "much larger" version of Chicago, Toronto could easily be considered a slightly smaller version of Chicago. As far as the cityscape goes, both cities are very similar.
I strongly agree with you. If Chicago is a smaller New York City than Toronto is like a smaller Chicago. Chicago has a little a NYC flare and Toronto has a little of Chicago's flare.

Quote:
However, in terms of 'feel', I have to grudgingly admit Toronto feels more like the Big Leagues than Chicago does. It's not just the markets, diversity, etc...hard to put my finger on it. Chicago is larger (especially the metro area) but Toronto has a jive going on that Chicago doesn't.
I don't know.. I feel that Chicago's feel is so much greater than Toronto. Especially in ddowntown, I get shivers everytime I'm in downtown. I've been in Toronto and it's feel wasn't all that. But it's just me

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One thing's for sure, both Chicago and Toronto [in my opinion] have that perfect urban package: not too big, not too small, awesome food, awesome people, great transportation, diversity, dense in some parts, completely walkable in others...they're really the perfect urban package. TO's one of those cities I could easily see myself in, and I pretty much never want to move from Chicago.
STRONGLY AGREE!
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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #37
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My 2 cents:

If NYC is a "much larger" version of Chicago, Toronto could easily be considered a slightly smaller version of Chicago. As far as the cityscape goes, both cities are very similar. However, in terms of 'feel', I have to grudgingly admit Toronto feels more like the Big Leagues than Chicago does. It's not just the markets, diversity, etc...hard to put my finger on it. Chicago is larger (especially the metro area) but Toronto has a jive going on that Chicago doesn't.

One thing's for sure, both Chicago and Toronto [in my opinion] have that perfect urban package: not too big, not too small, awesome food, awesome people, great transportation, diversity, dense in some parts, completely walkable in others...they're really the perfect urban package. TO's one of those cities I could easily see myself in, and I pretty much never want to move from Chicago.
Simply because Toronto is Canada's premiere and largest city. Hence, it's a city of great importance and representation. Chicago is not for the US. Both are great cities with very much in common that they always get compared. Similar population-wise, location within the lakes, climate, urban layout, etc.

Toronto is having a massive construction boom, the largest in both US and Canada, so it's in the forefront when it comes to construction. But none of the projects will impact its skyline that much. Chicago is still miles away from Toronto despite the latter having more buildings
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by chicity
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
However, in terms of 'feel', I have to grudgingly admit Toronto feels more like the Big Leagues than Chicago does. It's not just the markets, diversity, etc...hard to put my finger on it. Chicago is larger (especially the metro area) but Toronto has a jive going on that Chicago doesn't.
I don't know.. I feel that Chicago's feel is so much greater than Toronto. Especially in ddowntown, I get shivers everytime I'm in downtown. I've been in Toronto and it's feel wasn't all that. But it's just me
Maybe because I just work downtown and leave. For a tourist I can definitely see the appeal to Chicago then Toronto, but as a resident? I'm not so sure... I feel that Chicago neighborhoods are its biggest asset, and both Toronto and Chicago have awesome neighborhoods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasticity
Simply because Toronto is Canada's premiere and largest city. Hence, it's a city of great importance and representation. Chicago is not for the US. Both are great cities with very much in common that they always get compared. Similar population-wise, location within the lakes, climate, urban layout, etc.
Sadly, Chicago is considered "flyover country" by many.

Quote:
Toronto is having a massive construction boom, the largest in both US and Canada, so it's in the forefront when it comes to construction. But none of the projects will impact its skyline that much. Chicago is still miles away from Toronto despite the latter having more buildings
Chicago had its boom about a decade ago.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #39
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Re the big city feeling: I think it depends on whether you're paying attention to the buildings or the people. For buildings Chicago feels bigger. It became a big city way before Toronto and has a lot of early 20th century skyscrapers that Toronto doesn't have. And the tallest are taller than anything in Toronto.

But I get more of a big city feeling from the people in Toronto than from people in Chicago. No doubt for reasons already stated like the diversity and that Toronto is the biggest city and economic centre of the the country. If you live in Canada and you want to live in a big city you go to Toronto. In the U.S. you go to New York. I was in Chicago for Lollapalooza a few years ago and one thing that struck me was how friendly everybody was. It was a charming small-town type of friendliness that I've never seen in such a big city. Part of it is that Americans are more outgoing that Canadians, but I've been to New York a bunch of times and people aren't friendly there like they were in Chicago
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Old February 9th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #40
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btw, i wasn't implying that most of NY's immigrants are from Mexico in my earlier post, although i see how people would interpret it that way
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