Chicago and Toronto: Similarities and Differences

[Kensingtonian]

Also, Happy Endings, my current favourite show on network television, is set in Chicago. I wish more shows were set there. You'd think people would get sick of 95% of movies and shows taking place in LA or NY

[Kensingtonian]

Also, the 2011 Canada census numbers came out today and they put Toronto's population at 2,615,060. Catching up to Chicago! And they still have to adjust for people who were missed or didn't fill out the form, so might even be there already.
Alright, I'm done

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by Kensingtonian

Re the big city feeling: I think it depends on whether you're paying attention to the buildings or the people. For buildings Chicago feels bigger. It became a big city way before Toronto and has a lot of early 20th century skyscrapers that Toronto doesn't have. And the tallest are taller than anything in Toronto.

But I get more of a big city feeling from the people in Toronto than from people in Chicago. No doubt for reasons already stated like the diversity and that Toronto is the biggest city and economic centre of the the country. If you live in Canada and you want to live in a big city you go to Toronto. In the U.S. you go to New York. I was in Chicago for Lollapalooza a few years ago and one thing that struck me was how friendly everybody was. It was a charming small-town type of friendliness that I've never seen in such a big city. Part of it is that Americans are more outgoing that Canadians, but I've been to New York a bunch of times and people aren't friendly there like they were in Chicago

That's a great point! ...and maybe what I was alluding to...I dunno, lol

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by Kensingtonian

Also, the 2011 Canada census numbers came out today and they put Toronto's population at 2,615,060. Catching up to Chicago! And they still have to adjust for people who were missed or didn't fill out the form, so might even be there already.
Alright, I'm done

I don't forsee Chicago proper growing anytime soon. It'll be a long time before highrise construction really booms again. In the meantime we continue to lose families to the suburbs. We're pretty stagnant to be honest...and the suburbs are diversifying and growning more so than Chicago.

[ChiSkyline]

I hope Chicago continues to grow.

[ChiCity]

Originally Posted by Northsider

Maybe because I just work downtown and leave. For a tourist I can definitely see the appeal to Chicago then Toronto, but as a resident? I'm not so sure... I feel that Chicago neighborhoods are its biggest asset, and both Toronto and Chicago have awesome neighborhoods.

I live in Chicago and lived in Toronto. I visit once or twice a year. I have to say no major difference really neighborhood wise. Being a resident in both cities I have to say flat out not that much of a difference but Ill still give it to chicago for just that feel.

Originally Posted by Kensingtonian

Re the big city feeling: I think it depends on whether you're paying attention to the buildings or the people. For buildings Chicago feels bigger. It became a big city way before Toronto and has a lot of early 20th century skyscrapers that Toronto doesn't have. And the tallest are taller than anything in Toronto.

But I get more of a big city feeling from the people in Toronto than from people in Chicago. No doubt for reasons already stated like the diversity and that Toronto is the biggest city and economic centre of the the country. If you live in Canada and you want to live in a big city you go to Toronto. In the U.S. you go to New York. I was in Chicago for Lollapalooza a few years ago and one thing that struck me was how friendly everybody was. It was a charming small-town type of friendliness that I've never seen in such a big city. Part of it is that Americans are more outgoing that Canadians, but I've been to New York a bunch of times and people aren't friendly there like they were in Chicago

Wonderful point! I can see how you'll have that big feel from diversity. Also I like the comparison you made.

[Ichiban]

Toronto always struck me as Canada's version of Chicago. Strictly off the top of my head, these Toronto actors have played Chicago characters:

- Dan Aykroyd was one of the Blues Brothers
- John Candy was Uncle Buck
- Mike Myers was part of the SNL Swerski crew

I'm familiar with Chicago but I've never been to Toronto. If I went there I wonder how similar it would seem.

[Toronto3]

Come on out if you can! You wont regret it..... :P spend some money too lol. Im annoyed hearing bout damn funding for transit :P

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by Toronto3

Come on out if you can! You wont regret it..... :P spend some money too lol. Im annoyed hearing bout damn funding for transit :P

I'm half-heartedly thinking about a French Canadian road trip that I would start in Toronto this summer. I'd love to visit the city again! Gotta use my time off before they take it from me

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by Northsider

I don't forsee Chicago proper growing anytime soon.

Sad to hear. Of course Chicago’s the transportation, financial, commercial, political, & academic hub of the Midwest. When the Midwest does relatively well, as it did during the 1990s, Chicago does even better. When the Midwest goes back to catching the flu, as it has over the past decade, Chicago catches a cold.

And yet, over the past decade, Chicagoland has continued to be one of the major immigration destinations in North America. I was looking over the American Community Survey 1-year estimate, which provides a preview sample of the detailed 2010 US Census data. It confirms that the Chicago metropolitan region, which extends into nearby portions of Indiana and Wisconsin, remains a very large immigration destination, with nearly 1.7 million foreign-born immigrants.

No surprise Mexico leads as by far the largest single source with 684,252 immigrants. However Poland ranks as the next largest source with 150,908, followed by India with 119,241. The Philippines, China, Korea, Germany, Guatemala, Ukraine, Pakistan, and Italy each have over twenty thousand immigrants represented in Metro Chicago.

Vietnam, Russia, Ecuador, the UK, Canada, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Romania, Columbia, Iraq, Lithuania, and Peru each also have over ten thousand immigrants in Chicagoland. Honduras, Nigeria, El Salvador, Ireland, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Japan, Cuba, Jamaica, Taiwan, Macedonia, Syria, Iran, France, Jordan, Israel, and Brazil are each also represented by over five thousand immigrants in Chicago.

To be sure, Chicago’s not as diverse as the Big Apple or LA, and as in many areas, many immigrants are obviously bypassing the city, spreading out around the suburbs. And yet, Chicagoland has attracted large numbers of immigrants from virtually all the corners of the world save Oceana. Clearly Chicagoland boasts a good mix of traditional and emerging immigrant sources.

[GarfieldPark]

Bayviews: "Of course Chicago’s the transportation, financial, commercial, political, & academic hub of the Midwest."

I wouldn't call Chicago the political hub of the Midwest. Chicago's politics seem pretty unique to Chicago. I don't see much political influence from Chicago spreading throughout the Midwest. Perhaps there is a good amount of Chicago political influence in NW Indiana and perhaps a little influence in SE Wisconsin, but besides that, I don't think Chicago is considered any type of political "hub" of the Midwest.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by GarfieldPark

Bayviews: "Of course Chicago’s the transportation, financial, commercial, political, & academic hub of the Midwest."

I wouldn't call Chicago the political hub of the Midwest. Chicago's politics seem pretty unique to Chicago. I don't see much political influence from Chicago spreading throughout the Midwest. Perhaps there is a good amount of Chicago political influence in NW Indiana and perhaps a little influence in SE Wisconsin, but besides that, I don't think Chicago is considered any type of political "hub" of the Midwest.

Certainly the Daley machine doesn't carry the clout that it had when it could "tilt" the balance in a close presidential election as when JFK managed a narrow win in 1960. More than a few big city mayors have modeled themselves after the Dalys.

And Obama, who made the big transition up from being an academic to a politician in Chicago, hasn't quite lived up to our expectations as president. But still, you can't deny Chicago's significant political impact not only in the Midwest, but across the US.

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by Northsider

I don't forsee Chicago proper growing anytime soon. It'll be a long time before highrise construction really booms again. In the meantime we continue to lose families to the suburbs. We're pretty stagnant to be honest...and the suburbs are diversifying and growning more so than Chicago.

I think that's mostly because the city right now pays more attention to the Northside and other gentrified neighborhoods at the expense of other areas of the city which caused some neighborhoods to continue to decay or remain stagnant, kind of similar to Baltimore in that aspect. However that seems to be changing as it seems that the city government along with businesses are now paying attention to other areas of the city and like the turnaround of areas like the South Bronx in NYC, I expect those areas to regain population sometime in the near future.

[ChiCity]

Originally Posted by bayviews

Sad to hear. Of course Chicago’s the transportation, financial, commercial, political, & academic hub of the Midwest. When the Midwest does relatively well, as it did during the 1990s, Chicago does even better. When the Midwest goes back to catching the flu, as it has over the past decade, Chicago catches a cold.

And yet, over the past decade, Chicagoland has continued to be one of the major immigration destinations in North America. I was looking over the American Community Survey 1-year estimate, which provides a preview sample of the detailed 2010 US Census data. It confirms that the Chicago metropolitan region, which extends into nearby portions of Indiana and Wisconsin, remains a very large immigration destination, with nearly 1.7 million foreign-born immigrants.

No surprise Mexico leads as by far the largest single source with 684,252 immigrants. However Poland ranks as the next largest source with 150,908, followed by India with 119,241. The Philippines, China, Korea, Germany, Guatemala, Ukraine, Pakistan, and Italy each have over twenty thousand immigrants represented in Metro Chicago.

Vietnam, Russia, Ecuador, the UK, Canada, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Romania, Columbia, Iraq, Lithuania, and Peru each also have over ten thousand immigrants in Chicagoland. Honduras, Nigeria, El Salvador, Ireland, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Japan, Cuba, Jamaica, Taiwan, Macedonia, Syria, Iran, France, Jordan, Israel, and Brazil are each also represented by over five thousand immigrants in Chicago.

To be sure, Chicago’s not as diverse as the Big Apple or LA, and as in many areas, many immigrants are obviously bypassing the city, spreading out around the suburbs. And yet, Chicagoland has attracted large numbers of immigrants from virtually all the corners of the world save Oceana. Clearly Chicagoland boasts a good mix of traditional and emerging immigrant sources.

I completely agree, although Chicago is not as diverse as NY or LA but it is pretty diverse.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by diablo234

I think that's mostly because the city right now pays more attention to the Northside and other gentrified neighborhoods at the expense of other areas of the city which caused some neighborhoods to continue to decay or remain stagnant, kind of similar to Baltimore in that aspect.

Not exactly. Only a handful of the 77 neighborhoods in Chicago saw population gains. Most of which were around the downtown and lakeshore. Even most Northside communities that are middle income or greater lost population. The only ones that grew were the ones seeing a Hispanic infulx on the Southwest and Northwest sides, who replaced middle class whites. The other Northside communities closer to the lake and downtown lost population for the most part. One reason is because many Northside communities are gentrifying and larger immigrant families are moving out, but only being replaced by single or childless couples. I moved out of the city in December 2010, after living there for 36 years. I had to think of the best interests of my two young boys.

[IMG][/IMG]



This map shows growth rates of Chicago and it's Illinois suburbs. The west and especially southwest suburbs grew dramatically in the last 10 years.






By the next census my guess is that you will continue to see a loss of African Americans in Chicago but I'd imagine by 2020, even the suburbs will see a net decline for that group. Hispanics which were once the back bone of growth for the city, in 2010 saw their population stagnate as most of the growth shifted to the suburbs. By 2020, Hispanics will probably see their population actually fall in the city. Asians will continue to grow in the suburbs as is currently the case.. My own personal estimate for the city of Chicago in 2020 will be around 2.4 million. The metro area will be close to 10.3 million, but I expect to see greater growth rates in Northwest Indiana and Southeast Wisconsin (as well as exurban counties in Illinois) as cash strapped families flee the out of control tax rates on property, and income that is stifling Cook County and our States economy in general.

However that seems to be changing as it seems that the city government along with businesses are now paying attention to other areas of the city and like the turnaround of areas like the South Bronx in NYC, I expect those areas to regain population sometime in the near future.

If anything the last census taught us that the attraction to the suburbs is even greater now then in the past. The difference being that now, we are also seeing Hispanics and African Americans leaving the city.

In each of the eight metropolitan areas, the preponderance of growth between 2000 and 2010 was in the suburbs, as has been the case for decades. This has occurred even though two events – the energy price spike in mid-decade and the mortgage meltdown – were widely held to have changed this trajectory. On average, 4 percent of the growth was in the historical core municipalities, and 96 percent of the growth was in the suburbs

In each of the eight metropolitan areas, the suburbs grew at a rate substantially greater than that of the core municipality. The core municipalities had an average growth from 2000 to 2010 of 3.2 percent. Suburban growth was 21.7 percent, nearly 7 times as great. Overall, the number of people added to the suburbs was 14 times that added to the core municipalities.

New York City which grew by leaps and bounds during the 1990's only managed a 2% growth the last 10 years.








And New York is also seeing it's growth in the same pattern as Chicago

[mhays]

Are you assuming that the count is more accurate than the estimates? There's obviously very good evidence to the contrary.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by mhays

Are you assuming that the count is more accurate than the estimates? There's obviously very good evidence to the contrary.

No the counts are not accurate (neither are the estimates) but what does it matter anyway? The counts were not accurate in 2000, or 1990, and the census results reflected more growth than that of 2010 census. If anything, more efforts were made this census to get a better count than ever before.

[bayviews]

Speaking of the Big Apple, here’s the latest update from the 2010 American Community Survey (ACS). It confirms that the New York City metropolitan region including Long Island, Northern New Jersey & a tiny part of Pennsylvania (but excluding the Southern Connecticut portion) is about as close a microcosm of our small world as any metropolitan area gets!

Of the 5.4 million foreign-born immigrants in the Greater NY metropolitan area, no single group comprises as much as 10% of the total immigrants. No surprise that the Dominican Republic tops the list as the single largest source of immigration, with 543,468 residents in the metropolitan region. However, even so, that’s slightly less than 10% of the region’s overall immigrant population.

Mainland China, Mexico, India, Ecuador, Jamaica, Guyana, Haiti, Columbia, and El Salvador comprise the second ten largest immigration sources. So there you have East and South Central Asia, The Caribbean, and Central and South America.

The second ten immigrant groups include The Philippines, Italy, Poland, Trinidad & Tobago, Peru, Russia, Ukraine, Honduras, and Guatemala. The third largest contingent of immigrants includes the Philippines, Italy, Poland, Trinidad & Tobago, Peru, Russia, and Ukraine. So there you have East Asia, East and Southern Europe, Central America, and the Caribbean all represented.

Macedonia, Kenya, South Africa, Switzerland, Other Northern Africa, and Liberia hold up the bottom of the list of immigrant sources to the Big Apple, with just over five thousand each.

NEW YORK-NORTHERN NEW JERSEY-LONG ISLAND NY-NJ-PA
METRO AREA
(2010 American Community Survey 1 year Estimates)
1. TOTAL FOREIGN BORN 5,447,131
2. Dominican Republic (Caribbean) 543,468
3. China Mainland (East Asia) 385,875
4. México (Central América)327,940
5. India(South Central Asia) 299,908
6. Ecuador (South América) 259,215
7. Jamaica (Caribeña) 246,522
8. Guyana (South America) 170,042
9. Haiti (Caribbean) 154,058
10. Colombia (South America) 152,755
11. El Salvador (Central America)142,691
12. Philippines (South East Asia) 140,790
13. Italy (Southern Europe) 126,235
14. Poland (Eastern Europe) 119,006
15. Trinidad & Tobago (Caribbean) 114,455
16. Peru (South America) 109,116
17. Russia (Eastern Europe) 95,550
18. Ukraine (Eastern Europe) 77,465
19. Honduras(Central America) 76,824
20. Guatemala (Central America)74,621
21. Pakistan (South Central Asia) 72,559
22. Cuba (Caribbean) 70,124
23. United Kingdom (Northern Europe) 65,106
24. Bangladesh (South Central Asia) 63,947
25. Germany (Western Europe) 48,464
26. Brazil (South America) 47,788
27. Canada (North America) 47,599
28. Portugal (Southern Europe) 46,484
29. Taiwan (East Asia) 42,019
30. Japan (East Asia) 42,019
31. Hong Kong (East Asia) 41,497
32. Isreal (Western Asia) 40,593
33. Greece (Southern Europe) 36,889
34. Ghana (West Africa)36,653
35. Nigeria (West Africa) 36,528
36. Egypt (North Africa) 35,072
37. (Other Caribbean) 34,076
38. Korea (East Asia) 33,703
39. Ireland (Northern Europe)32,763
40. Argentina (South America) 29,225
41. France (Western Europe) 25,905
42. Barbados (Caribbean) 25,748
43. Vietnam (South East Asia) 25,253
44. Panama (Central America)23,732
45. Romania (Eastern Europe) 23,080
46. Albania (Eastern Europe) 22,587
47. Costa Rica (Central America)21,905
48. Yugoslavia (Eastern Europe) 21,566
49. Grenada(Caribbean) 21,438
50. Other Western Africa 21,236
51. Turkey(Western Asia) 21,143
52. Iran (South Central Asia) 21,103
53. Uzbekistan (South Central Asia) 19,763
54. Other Eastern Europe 19,707
55. Other Western Asia 18,706
56. Venezuela (South America) 17,726
57. Chile (South America) 16,293
58. Belarus(Eastern Europe) 16,270
59. Hungary (Eastern Europe) 15,655
60. St. Vincent & the Grenadines(Caribbean) 14,940
61. West Indies (Caribbean) 14,940
62. Czech/Slovak(Eastern Europe) 14,137
63. Nicaragua (Central America)13,883
64. Dominica (Caribbean) 12,762
65. Uruguay (South America) 12,335
66. Malaysia (South East Asia) 11,820
67. Croatia (Eastern Europe) 11,762
68. Morocco (North Africa) 11,476
69. Other South America 11,419
70. Lebanon (Western Asia) 10,805
71. Yemen (Western Asia) 9,920
72. Vietnam (South Eastern Asia) 9,873
73. Jordan (Western Asia) 9,068
74. Bolivia (South America) 9,049
75. Nepal (South Central Asia) 8,429
76. Burma (South Eastern Asia) 8,356
77. Afghanistan (South Central Asia) 8,246
78. Indonesia (South Eastern Asia) 7,847
79. Syria (Western Asia) 7,797
80. Belize (Central America) 7,795
81. Other Eastern Africa 7,689
82. Australia (Oceania) 7,383
83. Bulgaria (Eastern Europe) 7,282
84. Sri Lanka (South Central Asia) 6,987
85. Moldavia (Eastern Europe) 6,879
86. Other Middle Africa 6,361
87. Netherlands (Western Europe) 6,271
88. Macedonia (Eastern Europe) 5,930
89. Kenya (Eastern Africa) 5,784
90. South Africa (Southern Africa) 5,729
91. Switzerland (Western Europe) 5,687
92. Other Northern Africa 5,337
93. Liberia (Western Africa) 5,012

[Xusein]

I honestly think the Census had major undercounting. Only 1,000 more people in Queens? Yeah right. There are so much immigrants living and working under the table in NYC that I think it might be feasible that there are 200k more people than the Census thinks there is.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by Xusein

I honestly think the Census had major undercounting. Only 1,000 more people in Queens? Yeah right. There are so much immigrants living and working under the table in NYC that I think it might be feasible that there are 200k more people than the Census thinks there is.

Most censuses tend to be slightly understated.

However, I do beleive that most of the census takers go to considerable lengths to count as many people as want to be counted, in many cases making multple follow-up visits.

As for the job of finding those hiding under the tables, thats of course ICE!