Future of iran!

[Ahura_Mazda]

I believe the best answer is International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), why we refer to some stupid american, european or arabs aljezaeera and alarabia. or even akhonds TV.

If we look to International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) documents it is much more clear than western propaganda.

[Cyrus]

Originally Posted by abii

You have no doubt or there IS no doubt? Who made you the decision maker my friend?

Even the top advisors in the US administration don't believe that Khamenei has made the decision and at the most they're after nuclear weapon's capability. Most recently Iran converted half of its 20% enriched uranium to oxide form and this will totally put a dent in any weaponization that you're saying Iran is persuing. Once you convert it it's easier to make a new batch than to convert it back. The Americans even acknowledged that this was a good step by Iran.

Even the biggest of the zionists clearly states that Iran isn't after nukes. Dr. Colin H. Kahl from the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) states clearly in this interview that Khamenei hasn't made the decision. This guy worked for the Obama administration and was an advisor to him prior to joining CNAS.

http://www.stimson.org/events/unders...ublic-opinion/

Don't be so extreme just to show you're against the regime. I'm against the regime too, but we're not in Iran and in the end Iranian people will decide what will happen.

Every poll conducted in the last decade has consistently shown that 90% of Iranians support the nuclear issue.

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/pos...ear_resistance

It is better to be quiet if you don't live in Iran, no one here support the nuclear issue, of course it could be different in the last year, in fact this thing really didn't matter for many, but after the sanctions and in the current economic disaster, there are just some idiots who wish to destroy Israel, support this thing.

Of course I don't expect that you understand these things, people here are selling their kidney for food, numerous people have lost their work, most of companies and factories have gone bankrupt or closed down, all things are at least four times more expensive than the last year, for what? For making some medical isotopes for research? No, we are not silly!

[SinaK]

Originally Posted by soheilz

And as I stated earlier, no country has the right to tell another sovereign nation what to do. 'IF' Iran decided to build nuclear weapons, America, Israel, and even Cyrus, will have to bite the bullet and accept this fact.

Sorry but this is wrong, iran has signed the NPT promising it won't. So if it were to do so it would have to pull out of the treaty. If iran pulls out of the treaty then if you think things are bad now, wait till you see what they do then.

Anyway, Nuclear weapons are AGAINST the interests of iran. Not just because of the pressure but because geo-strategically it will completely ruin the advantage we have now. The advantage of being such a large country compared to the other countries in the region. As soon as nuclear weapons come into the picture, then thats gone. Our size is no longer relevant. (i'll give one example, if iran gets nuclear weapons and then somehow UAE gets nuclear weapons then suddenly UAE and Iran have nullified each other, iran no longer has a size advantage over UAE that we have now)

Also, nuclear weapons do not increase security, they decrease it. Look at the mess pakistan is. And when has nuclear weapons ever helped israel? they still get rockets thrown on them every now and then.

So hopefully whoever is running iran isn't so stupid to make that decision. So far it looks like they haven't.

[koloftoo]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

Using or not using is one thing and having or not having is another thing, we say a mad man shouldn't have a gun, it is another thing that he will use it to kill his own family or other people.

I talked about 2009 elections because I saw from near how these mad people attacked their own people brutality, some days ago I asked my friends why no one complains about this disastrous economic situation in Iran and they replied no one dares to do it against this savage regime!

You can't call most of Iraqis and Afghans traitors because they didn't support Saddam and Taliban, the same thing can be said about Libyans and Gaddafi, and in the near future about Syrians and Assad, people who don't support an absolute dictator are not traitors.

Did you come to the realization that the Islamic government is backward and brutal just now? I had the opportunity to learn that first hand when my father was psychologically and physically abused for 3 years in the late 80s, simply for knowing some people who knew some people. He was never quite the same after that. I'm sorry, but you're teaching us anything new here. What's your point?

In my personal opinion, the current regime is retrograde, brutal and at times murderous. But I know for a fact that a good number of Iranians don't share that view. So what are we to do with each other? Kill and be killed until one side vanquishes the other? And how different would that be from our current situation? There are no easy solutions. This is going to be a long and painful process, through which the Iranian nation will experiment with different ideas, and somewhere along the way form a consensus on many fundamental and difficult to deal with issues.

This is a struggle for the future of Iran and the lives of Iranians. Therefore it must be carried out by Iranians. If anybody chooses to resort to outside players in order to change the outcome to what they see fit, they are a traitor to that struggle, to Iran and to Iranians, and they should be treated as such.

And please don't use Iraq and Libya as examples. There's a reason why they're in the shape they are.

[Cyrus]

Originally Posted by koloftoo

Did you come to the realization that the Islamic government is backward and brutal just now? I had the opportunity to learn that first hand when my father was psychologically and physically abused for 3 years in the late 80s, simply for knowing some people who knew some people. He was never quite the same after that. I'm sorry, but you're teaching us anything new here. What's your point?

In my personal opinion, the current regime is retrograde, brutal and at times murderous. But I know for a fact that a good number of Iranians don't share that view. So what are we to do with each other? Kill and be killed until one side vanquishes the other? And how different would that be from our current situation? There are no easy solutions. This is going to be a long and painful process, through which the Iranian nation will experiment with different ideas, and somewhere along the way form a consensus on many fundamental and difficult to deal with issues.

This is a struggle for the future of Iran and the lives of Iranians. Therefore it must be carried out by Iranians. If anybody chooses to resort to outside players in order to change the outcome to what they see fit, they are a traitor to that struggle, to Iran and to Iranians, and they should be treated as such.

And please don't use Iraq and Libya as examples. There's a reason why they're in the shape they are.

It is clear that we never ask the foreigners to attack our country and kill us, the problem is that our leaders are forcing them to do it by insisting on their nuclear ambitions and seeking the destruction of another country (Israel), most of countries of the world are against it and the global sanctions on Iran proves this thing, what should we do? I think the best thing is that we at least don't support this regime.

[persian]

Originally Posted by abii

You have no doubt or there IS no doubt? Who made you the decision maker my friend?

Even the top advisors in the US administration don't believe that Khamenei has made the decision and at the most they're after nuclear weapon's capability. Most recently Iran converted half of its 20% enriched uranium to oxide form and this will totally put a dent in any weaponization that you're saying Iran is persuing. Once you convert it it's easier to make a new batch than to convert it back. The Americans even acknowledged that this was a good step by Iran.

Even the biggest of the zionists clearly states that Iran isn't after nukes. Dr. Colin H. Kahl from the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) states clearly in this interview that Khamenei hasn't made the decision. This guy worked for the Obama administration and was an advisor to him prior to joining CNAS.

http://www.stimson.org/events/unders...ublic-opinion/

Don't be so extreme just to show you're against the regime. I'm against the regime too, but we're not in Iran and in the end Iranian people will decide what will happen.

Every poll conducted in the last decade has consistently shown that 90% of Iranians support the nuclear issue.

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/pos...ear_resistance

First of all, we are not friends. Secondly, I don't believe in a single poll that comes out of Iran as people are always scared to express their real opinion in are. Thirdly, I spent a good part of the year in Iran so there is no need to put me in your imaginary category. I, unlike many other people here don't live in fancy rich parts of Tehran, rather I have communications with lower and middle class people in the cities that I live in, and I can tell you they are so sick of their current life that not only they hate this regime and its nuclear program, but some even ask for any means of a change in the current situation, including a foreign invasion.

[soheilz]

OR...they can grow some balls and do something about it. Force the change in the government. Iranians need to stop being such pussies, sitting in their homes behind close doors, complaining and bitching about the government. Go out and do something about it. Look what the egyptians did, look what the syrians are doing. Damn it

[SinaK]

Originally Posted by soheilz

OR...they can grow some balls and do something about it. Force the change in the government. Iranians need to stop being such pussies, sitting in their homes behind close doors, complaining and bitching about the government. Go out and do something about it. Look what the egyptians did, look what the syrians are doing. Damn it

What the egyptians did was nothing compared to the numbers iranians turned out in 2009. Mubarak stepped down as soon as the americans stopped backing him, iranians dont have that luxury.

And syria? seriously? thats what you want for iran?


On the other hand, i don't have any better suggestions so :\

[koloftoo]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

It is clear that we never ask the foreigners to attack our country and kill us,

Well I'm glad to hear that from you. But I'm not sure if it's so clear, given that you were advocating a foreign invasion, in case Iran develops nuclear weapons.

the problem is that our leaders are forcing them to do it by insisting on their nuclear ambitions and seeking the destruction of another country (Israel),

Nulcear ambitions? Iranians shouldn't have right to nuclear technology that is clearly allowed to them under international treaties? Do you view Iranians as inferior to every other nation in the world? Did we have nuclear 'ambitions' when we were invaded left, right and center by the Russians, British and Americans in the recent past? Did we threaten to destroy another country to deserve to be blockaded by foreign navies in 1952 and then finally our best hope for liberal democracy to be destroyed by the same powers in 1953? Should we permanently crawl up in hole for them to find us less offensive? Do you think we will finally stop 'forcing' them to do these things to us when we hand over the last bit of our sovereignty and national rights? It's sad to see such inferiority ridden remarks by an Iranian!

most of countries of the world are against it and the global sanctions on Iran proves this thing,

Global sanctions? Most of what is hurting Iran is due to the work of a handful of former colonial powers and the US, that have traditionally sought to dominate Iran. The vast majority of the globe has and would gladly trade with Iran if a reliable method could be found to actually pay Iran and conduct transactions. I'd hardly call them global. But you're free to exaggerate if you wish.

what should we do?

Keep walking! Who said the rise of Iran would be cost free? We have tried appeasing the West over and over and over again. And the results have always been disastrous and detrimental to our national interests and country. And that's because power talks and bullsh!t walks. Why should the western nations accommodate us and respect our interests, when they can get what they want by dominating and bullying us? Once Iran has the power to inflict serious harm to her adversaries and their interests, you will see a very different tone coming out them.

I think the best thing is that we at least don't support this regime.

Don't support the regime. But support Iran. Support Iran's rights despite the regime. Support Iran's sovereignty. Support Iran's interests. Support Iranians' right to self-determination. Support Iranians' right to define themselves by their own values. Support Iranians' right to make mistakes.

The regime is our problem, our fault, our responsibility. It is our ugly side. We've had it for a long time. We have to first start to understand it and then gently deal with it... ourselves.

[Cyrus]

As I said in my frist posts, one the major problems in Iran is the nationalist bigotry of some people, similar to religious bigotry of our current leaders.

Of course people should defend their country but we should consider the situation that they live in, in the Achaemenid era, a dictator named Artaxerxes III came to power, this mad man burnt a city to the ground and killed forty thousand people in one day, then we see some years later Alexander with a small army came and conquered the whole Persian empire but in the Parthian era, Trajan with a huge Roman army wanted to do the same, there wasn't even a Parthian army to defend the country, but we see the people stood firmly against him and he had to retreat.

Ultra-nationalists can't dictate to the people what they should do, in the current situation the only important thing for the people is that this regime is changed even by a foreign invasion, it doesn't matter for them what will happen later.

[SoroushPersepolisi]

no
u fail to understand that any sudden change causes another group of idiots to come

even if that wouldnt be the case, we need to make our own nation and destiny

its not like america would come and hand us a nice democratic system anyway

funny it is that u get offended by me saying a mosalla is ugly and consider it hatred towards iranian culture then u are OK with a foreign invasion

[Cyrus]

Soroush, I hope you are not offended but unfortunately there are many people like who hate the Iranian culture and civlization and talk about our nation and destiny, this anti-Iranian regime came to power through a long process by these people, not foreigners, whenas we know the previous regime was the real reviver of our ancient culture and civlization.

If we want the western democracy then it will be better that they come and hand us a nice democratic system because we have a very bad experience of it and these people will probably make something worse than it but if want our own monarchy system then we can do it ourselves.

[SinaK]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

Soroush, I hope you are not offended but unfortunately there are many people like who hate the Iranian culture and civlization and talk about our nation and destiny, this anti-Iranian regime came to power through a long process by these people, not foreigners, whenas we know the previous regime was the real reviver of our ancient culture and civlization.

If we want the western democracy then it will be better that they come and hand us a nice democratic system because we have a very bad experience of it and these people will probably make something worse than it but if want our own monarchy system then we can do it ourselves.

democracy works because the government elected is seen as legitimate by the people. if democracy is "handed to you" by foreigners, it will not work because there is no way that the government will have the proper legitimacy for democracy to work.

It has to be organic otherwise its not democracy.

The US "handed" iraq democracy, how did that work out...

Then there is the more important matter that the US doesn't actually give a crap about democracy.

[Cyrus]

An Iranian type of democracy already exists in Iran, by your logic, there is no need to change.

[persian]

I completely agree with you Cyrus.

[SoroushPersepolisi]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

An Iranian type of democracy already exists in Iran, by your logic, there is no need to change.

the west doesnt want a democratic iran, thats their nightmare
the IR was heavily supported by western powers.
now its a monster out of controll

democracy must and MUST be internal or else we will continue to be enslaved ,
destiny must be in our OWN hands

if our government should be handed to us, might aswell hand our land, people language industry etc to them aswell!

we have been struggling for democracy for almost 2 centuries,
and we had a partial democracy with mosadegh, thats iranian, not thia IR

thia isnt democracy, and nobody claims it is

u want the easy way out

but iranians in iran arent that pissed yet, it takes time

and secondly, u are thinking a about a direct overthrow, that doesnt work, and never will
we need shifting changes

[soheilz]

Here is what we are all over looking: "separation of church and state." In this case the separation of Islam from our so called democracy. The IR has to go in order for democracy to flourish. People in Iran have to accept that Islam in politics is the problem, and the fact that one douchebag of a person (khamenei), can't be the sole ruler of a country. He is a dictator. Once we realize that, we can hang his ass, and go on about creating a true democracy...ON OUR OWN.

[Parsbeer]

Most people in Iran want seperation of church and state, i dont know if you ever been to Iran cause it seems like you think Iranians somehow dont know whats going on. In fact Iranian people are to most smart and educated people in the world when it comes to politics and all cause they have been thru so much..

[Cyrus]

I think there are three options about the near future of Iran, especially by considering the recent economic and nuclear issues:

1. The current regime stays in power and continues its way.
2. A popular uprising and probably a civil war, like in Syria.
3. A foreign invasion and some unknown later events.

Which one do you think will happen?

[SoroushPersepolisi]

none, maybe something between 1 and 2

but again, over time, pressure will cause them to melt down
its a long process
my thoughts
another possibility is that the regime digs its own grave which they kindof are, there is a few huge splits and cracks in the system, which can lead to them knocking eachother out